Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Trebor, ... Before Dyson, before Rainbow:  Long before the Rainbow water-bath [shop] vac there was a railcar water vac.  If you search this site, I’ve posted a patent drawing of it somewhere. Me not commenting on your claims or positions:  I do not pour over all the posts for sure, I have not commented on your [above] claims or positions since I have not seen any supporting information. I’ve got to run. DIB

Long before the Rainbow water-bath [shop] vac there was a railcar water vac.  . . .

DIB

Dustmite:

The Rainbow is far more than a shop vac.  It goes to show that you have no appreciation for the inordinate number of interventions prior to Dyson.  

DIB,
Thanks for responding.

If there were no expiration dates on patents, or if the prevailing morality were to prevent the use of any prior art, no matter how old, then Dyson vacuums could not exist today, in fact nearly all vacuums would not exist. Hoover invented the revolving brush roll and the beater bar. Air-Way invented the paper bag.  No one else would have these features because only the originator would have them. Hoover had patents for on-board tools very early (late 1930's) and Jim Kirby had a patent for it in 1953.  So if everyone subscribed to your 'sloppy seconds' mentality, no one save the original inventor would ever be allowed to improve on his inventions because holding the patent is totally separate from putting it into production.  In fact, companies patent ideas and variations of them 'pre-emptively' so that people who are inspired from an idea to improve it or make it differently are foiled from doing so for the period of the patent exclusivity.  So, under your belief of the way things should be, the one who can patent the most ideas the fastest is the one who wins. And you know who loses? You and me and everybody else that's who, because unless someone has a totally original idea, and can patent it, nothing new could ever be manufactured.  And that would include cyclonic separation, because the separator invented by John Newcomb, was originally used to cyclonically separate wood particles (sawdust) from the air.  You missed my point about Rexair/Rainbow.  The fact that there was another water filtration vacuum before 1936 does not alter the fact that James Dyson falsely claimed Dyson to be the first and the only vacuum that does not lose suction.

The efficiency of the new filter bags (maintaining suction while filtering at nearly 100%,) is widely known by people in the vacuum cleaner community, but nonetheIess I will do some research and post the links for everyone to see.

Trebor

Batman,

Tell it to the consumer.  Seventy years of business knowhow and the masses continually reject it, and no big-player manufacturer wants it (wants to copy it).  It’s dead in the water (no pun intended).

Not bad and nice try - trying to state I do not appreciate inventions prior to Dyson.  You need to be a rep for the underwhelming vac corps and sling that slop from there.


DIB

Batman,

Tell it to the consumer.  Seventy years of business knowhow and the masses continually reject it, and no big-player manufacturer wants it (wants to copy it).  It’s dead in the water (no pun intended).

Not bad and nice try - trying to state I do not appreciate inventions prior to Dyson.  You need to be a rep for the underwhelming vac corps and sling that slop from there.


DIB

Dustmite,

If ignorance is bliss, you must be one happy fellow.    There have been numerous imitations, including water filtration vacs sold on HSN.  

DIB,

I do know the derivation of the term 'sloppy seconds'.  The question is, who decides what is the 'decent' interval between a patent's expiration and copying/adapting it by others?  A century ago a widow who remarried in less than 5 yrs was considered less than a proper lady.  This is the same kind of issue. This is about what YOU consider fair, decent, and proper.  The marketplace is what it is.  Patents expire, they are challenged in court, people copy others' ideas.  Get over it.  Dyson ADAPTED cyclonic separation to a vacuum cleaner. He was inspired by cyclonic separation of sawdust from the air.  Kirby and Hoover already had expired patents for on-board tool designs. Singer and Hoover and Panasonic and Oreck, had already done the 'floating, self adjusting head' concept. As with most inventions it is the application/combination of existing ideas that brings something 'new' to the market place.  Dyson made a mint, good for him. To quote King Solomon in Ecclesiastes "There is nothing new under the sun" 

Trebor

DIB,&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;The 'mudbath' as you describe the Rainbow works extremely well.  I have one I use in my cleaning business (see my earlier post) that is 23 years old and still runs like new.  The Rexair was the FIRST water trap vacuum to use a separator. There are Rexairs in excess of 60 years old still working.  Think any Dysons will make it to even 20 years in daily use?&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I am not defending anyone. Your perception that I am is indicative of a paranoid-schizophrenic personality. What I &lt;span style=&quot;font-style: italic;&quot;&gt;am&lt;/span&gt; saying is the patent laws are what they are. Any company is foolish to refrain from using patents which are available to it. And you, DIB are wasting time and posting space by accusing others of opinions holding they do not hold. Yeah, Bissell and TTI make low quality vacuums. And you know what? There is a market for them. People buy them.  I wouldn't, but then I don't buy a lot of popular stuff most people buy.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Ugly? That's a matter of perception. The Dysons, in my opinion, are no prizewinners for their looks. They are very industrial looking, not what I would call attractive at all. &lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;You still have ignored James Dyson's claim that he invented the first and only vacuum cleaner that does not lose suction. I don't know about the water trap vacuum you mentioned prior to Rexair  as whether or not it lost suction in use, what I do know is that it did not use a separator, and thus, your bringing up the previous water trap vacuum, and lumping all water trap vacuums together as 'mud baths' is a misdirection away from the the fact that your St James either deliberately, or unwittingly made a false advertising claim when he touted his Dyson vacuum cleaners as &amp;quot;the first&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the only&amp;quot; vacuum that doesn't lose suction. Not true.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Are you saying that you are unaware of the flimsiness of the hose on the upright Dysons, and/or the lack of a caveat in the manual not to tug on the hose to pull the machine around to a different direction?  I am sure anyone on this forum who repairs and or collects vacuums has seen the flaw I am mentioning. &lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Trebor&lt;br type=&quot;_moz&quot;/&gt;<BR>