Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Looks interesting..

Interesting technology from Dyson, so a floor height adjustment in Dyson terms is now being used, well in the USA! Can't see this model coming to the UK! Be interesting to know, looking at the video if the user can remove the brush bar! The brush bar is lifted for hard floors not turned off!

Looking at the information and general experience what I understand is normal height adjustment lets airflow into the cleaner head longs the height is set right will pickup! Where as a sealed cleaner head to the floor depending on carpat pile height could reduce the airflow into the head! Or am I completely talking rubbish!!! Just a thought!

Excellent for dyson consumers.  Should cause the price of the existing dyson uprights to drop precipitously.

Carmine D.

Here is a zipped Airmuscle MPEG movie (to view larger and slower).  http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/361269/Dyson%20DC28%20Airmuscle%205-14-09-1.mpg.zip

Looks promising - but the main question is have they achieved the holy grail of a cleaner which can reach the top ranks of the CR tests, without being over aggressive to the carpet?

This technology is a major leap forward for Dyson vacuum cleaners, for it addresses one of the biggest drawbacks of their floating head design: lack of adequate surface contact.  Personally I am still trying to figure out how it works and what kind of components it uses.  Does it use some kind of electric clutch (note the wires in the video), or a variable speed electric motor?  Does the pneumatic actuator draw air from the main airstream?  I am also curious to know how much ground clearance the brushroll will provide once you press the hard floor button which raises the brushroll.  I find this feature very interesting, and I believe that it can eliminate debris being dragged all over your floor (by the bristles scraping against the floor surface), and can reduce scratches on flooring surfaces from contact with the bristles. 

I am very intrigued by "Airmuscle" and I may have to obtain one to see how it works in person (I'll give it to my father who is buying a new home).  Even though this new technology is not as gimmicky, flashy, and strange as "the ball" and their ultra compact DC22 and DC24 model(s), this is far more important in terms of advancement in cleaning performance.  I just wish that they could have fitted the DC28 with Level 3 Root Cyclone (I don't see why not, especially with its bottom mounted prefilter like on the DC17).

On a side note, the DC22 Turbine and Motorhead have been removed from the US website......sales flop averted, perhaps?

First online review... Somewhat...

Click Here

CarmineD wrote:

Conversely, if the new technology [while it looks and sounds impressive] is all sizzle and no substance [to quote a familiar line for the brand when tested by Consumer Reports], its $599 MSRP will tank precipitously.  Recall dyson's DC15 MSRP drop after just a few months on the market,  the ill-fated DC11 with the shortest production run in 100 years of vacuum history, and now dyson's DC22 too.

Carmine D.

DC18 wrote:
Hi Acerone,

Dyson is merely doing what it should although it would have us believe it's done everyone else one better.

Old time religion -- the vacuum kind I mean -- had it that the best way clean carpet was to have it slightly lifted up to the brushroll by the cleaner's suction. The idea was that along with agitation by the brushroll air drawn in through the carpet's backing would better facilitate the removal of embedded material(the grit and dirt down at the base of the carpet fiber. Direct-air uprights like Royal's classic uprights, Sanitaires and clones and Kirby still employ the method. However with the coming of Hoover "clean airs" plus canister vacuum power nozzles the notion may have been left to gather dust on some ad man's desk. As to whether it is fact or fiction I can't say even though I still see old-fashioned Kirby as a benchmark in regard to performance on carpet.

Hoover Dial-A-Matic cleaners were more designed to travel smoothly and not bog down on thick carpeting, the reason for the broad roller behind the brushroll, apparently did a good enough at cleaning. Height adjustment was later.

Electrolux's and most other PNs, first to last, merely ride on top of carpeting as well. Here again, adjustments of whatever type made available are not there to encourage suction to lift carpeting up from the floor but merely to make them easy to push.

That said -- the new design approach apparently left no one complaining as it hasn't changed.

Dyson's cam thing, if I am correctly interpreting what I've seen and read, raises and lowers the brushroll within the confines of the brushroll chamber as opposed to uprights that allow users to manually or electronically raise or lower a clean-air's cleaning head. A nice idea though a little elaborate. Miele has its spring loaded brushroll which does just fine. Sebo X series models won't be going anywhere either. However, in the name of "innovation" the new features may better justify price.

As for the claims about "leaking suction" -- baloney. As long as a carpet height adjustment is properly set there's nothing to lose. Besides which, airflow (good air movement from outside into the brushroll chamber and on to the capture area) is essential for all vacuums to work well and the greater issue is how well it is directed to bring that about.

As for the "heavy cleaner heads" matter, this is another off-the-wall claim. Weight being an essential selling point these days, I know of no uprights that are weighted down for the purpose of maintaining contact with carpet pile.

AND the "improved torque" for driving the brushroll is yet another moot point. A brushroll either turns as it should or does not. Has belt slippage been a major problem for Dyson owners here in past? What escapes me here is why not rethink the brush roll, why not go self-propelled.

Venson

I can appreciate dyson for doing this,but why make it so difficult on the rest of us repair people?

This is  train wreck waiting to happen..

Why is my dc 23 motor screaming its only 1 year old.?

So...

Dyson finally admits that floating nozzles alone aren't the "be-all-to-end-all", thus a 'height-right' control is added.

I find it pretty strange that a "new" cleaner does not incorporate the latest features (level 3 root cyclone?). And what about an electrically driven brush? - not on your life! - they're still messing about with that bloody clutch - albeit a high torque one now! (I wonder if this is to combat Carmine's problem carpets?)

I think Dyson gives a DC14 each to separate design teams, locks them away for months and see what evolves within each team. Not very inspiring, is it?

Oh, I see that the clumsy cleaner head is still present. Clearly they don't think low profile is the way to go.

I'm assuming they want to stick with the clutch to reduce noise levels.

With the new height adjustments, dyson has made all the previous models obsolete.  And their prices should plunge.  Reminiscent of HOOVER when it went from the 2 heights [normal and high on the Convertibles] and self-adjusting head on the Dials to the 3 and 4 manual height adjustments [low, normal, high, shag].  In HOOVER's case it was almost 40 years ago.  The prices of the 2 height convertibles and Dial w/o adjustments dropped until the models disappeared from production permanently.  Sadly, it takes awhile for the newest/novice vacuum makers in the industry today to make the historical connection and significance of these past benchmarks for themselves.

Carmine D.

Another online 'review':

http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/15/dyson-announces-the-dc28-animal-we-go-hands-on/

Model2 wrote:
Gee whiz, "pneumatic actuator, high-torque clutch . . .", I don't think my car has all that.

The same results can be had more simply. I can't imagine one of these holding up in the hands of your everyday "it-just-a-vacuum-cleaner" type users.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Overengineered, overpriced, over hypeded, over hawked.  Dyson's 4 best features.

Carmine D.

Hey guys,

Just writing to let you know that I have obtained a DC28, and have been using it for the past several days.  I'll have a thorough review up tomorrow (I'm busy carpet cleaning as of the moment). All I can say right now is that exhibits excellent deep cleaning (the amount of sand left in the carpets by my parents DC14 is downright atrocious).  The fit and finish of this model is heads and shoulders above previous Dyson models, and the "airmuscle" tech definitely functions as intended.  There are plenty of electronically controlled parts on this machine: the brush-lift cam, the airmuscle pneumatic actuator, and even the clutch is activated and deactivated by a motor driven gear drive.  How this influx of electronic componentry affects long term reliability is yet to be determined.  However, I'm betting it's $600 price tag may deter "it's just a vacuum" consumers, but who's to say that more affluent customers are more protective and careful with their possesions....more to come. 

iMacDaddy wrote:


Can't wait... What are the chances you can upload a video on Youtube... That was be perfect...

iMacDaddy wrote:

Tacks, pins, nails, paper clips and the like will wreak havoc on the sophisticated gadgetry.  The more esoteric the more problematic. 

Carmine D.

Sorry for the late review; I have been rather busy. The Dyson Airmuscle DC28 is basically the upright many people have been asking for during the last several years; a machine that has individual floor settings, and can clean deep clean with a proper brush roll. The closest Dyson has come in regards to improved floor cleaning was with the DC17; a machine that performed well enough on carpets to earn a "very good" rating from Consumer Reports. However, its brush roll is far too aggressive, and has been noted by many consumers that it pulls up excess carpet fibers, damages delicate carpeting and rugs. Thus, the DC17 is not the ideal choice for everyone. But with the DC28 comes a far more advanced design that will improve upon the good attributes of the DC17, and eliminate the negative traits that the DC17 displayed. The DC28 is the successor to the DC17, with many retailers like Target and Best Buy liquidating their DC17 stock to make way for the DC28. With this new model comes new technology and features that enhances cleaning performance.

The big deal about the DC28 is that it is the first Dyson upright to come equipped with a manual height adjustment system to accommodate virtually every type of floor surface. The manual height adjustment system consists of four key components: the "Airmuscle" pneumatic piston, electronic cam system, electronic clutch, and the illuminated height selector system. When the user turns the machine on, the "Medium pile" button will illuminate, for it is the default preset. Should the user want to change, he or she can preset "Deep pile", "Low pile" or "Bare floor". Depending on the selection, the electronic cam system will automatically raise or lower the brush roll as the Airmuscle pneumatic piston pull the floor nozzle inward, effectively pushing the sole plate deeper into the carpet. The electronic clutch is activated and disengages the brush roll when the handle is pushed into the upright position, or when the user presses the Bare floor button on the height selector. With these added features, I noticed right away that the performance of the DC28 was superior to that of the DC14. In the clear bin, I notice more cat hair, and heavy grain sand.

Vacuuming the high traffic areas again and again revealed even more and more sand being picked up. I can't remember the last time I saw sand in a DC14 clear bin, if ever. This enhanced performance can definitely be attributed to the heigh selector tech, however, the design of the brush roll definitely comes into play here. The DC17 utilized a large roller that consisted of tufts of very stiff bristles that proved damaging to more delicate carpets; however, the DC28 uses the same size roller with thick tufts of longer, slightly softer bristles that is easier on carpets. This gentler brush roll design allowed for excellent deep cleaning without pulling up much carpet fibers into the clear bin, a very delicate balance that prolongs carpet life. Generally, I vacuum with the "Deep pile" setting to deep clean my thicker plush carpets as much as possible. I'm sure those with less dense carpeting like Berber would get more use out of the "Medium pile" or "Low pile" settings.

The DC28 performed well on bare floors as it did on carpets. With the "Bare floor" setting, the clutch disengages the brush roll, and the electronic cam system lifts the brush roll up even higher than with the "Low pile" setting. This is done to ensure no debris is trapped between the floor and the bristles. Personally, I like using the included "Flat-Out" tool when cleaning bare floors with area rugs. This Flat-Out tool is a super low profile nozzle that can simultaneously clean bare floors and carpeting without having to change any settings on the nozzle. The nozzle is so low-profile that I can clean under closed doors, the small gap under couches, beds, and all other low areas in your household.

When cleaning stairs, furniture, and my car, I liked using the small Turbine tool that was also included with the DC28. This recently redesigned Turbine tool is much smaller than the previous design, and far less bulky, although you lose the ability to shut off the brush roll. This nozzle is very small, fits well in your hand, and feels no more different than using the standard stair tool. It does a good job at removing debris from surfaces, however, with thick cat hair, an additional pass is needed to remove it. I think the brush roll could benefit from slightly stiffer bristles, however, that would most likely reduce the RPMs altogether, hampering its ability to lift embedded filth.

On paper, the DC28 has a power rating of 245 air watts. That makes the DC28 more powerful than the last <b>eight</b> US Dysons released over the span of four years. I'm betting that the Airmuscle system makes good use of some of the airflow, and is the reason why this machine needed more power than previous models.

As I stated here previously, I feel that this model is more refined, with improved fit and finish over previous models. Parts like the shell that holds the pre-filter slides into place nicely with a nice tight fit; its basically a design similar to that of the now defunct DC07, but fits better with no incremental nudges and pushes to get it to snap into place. The removable U-Bend tube has been replaced with a see-thru trap door that allows you to see if an obstruction is present. I also like the inclusion of snap-on tools that secure nicely thanks to laminated seals in the telescope tube, and at the end of the stretch hose.

I'm sure some people out there may be wonder why this machine doesn't have Level 3 Root Cyclone, and why it uses a clutch rather than a dedicated motor. I have some thoughts on both of the topics.

Root Cyclone over Level 3 Root Cyclone
• Level 3 may be more efficient, but it takes up so much space inside the clear bin to accommodate the added oversized cyclone.
• The DC28 Root Cyclone has most likely been tweaked for better performance; with the total handful of sand my DC28 has vacuumed up, the pre-filter had around ten visible grains of sand on it, with little fine dust. Definitely an improvement over the DC14.
• With 3 month filter cleaning cycles, is it really worth taking up bin capacity for the Level 3 System that would yield similar performance to the DC28 Root Cyclone system?

Clutch over Dedicated Electric Motor
• The clutch may be more able to protect the electronic cam system by quickly disengaging the brush roll immediately after an obstruction.
• An electric motor can exert great amounts of torque that can possibly damage the cam system by trying to power through obstructions in the cleaning head.

Overall, I am satisfied with the DC28, and I hope Dyson will promote this machine to the fullest extent (in the same manner as their Ball line). The only thing left to question is the durability of the cam system; whether or not obstructs can damage it, and if the clutch can function as a damage deterrent for the cam. Only time will tell. Check out the quick video I threw together this morning, as well as the pictures for a more detailed look.

Dyson DC28 in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSun4jcP8Yg (New Link...I had to re-edit to correct a typo)


[img]

Great review and that's for the youtube video....

Acerone wrote:

I second Acerone's comment.  Thanks iMacDaddy. 

Carmine D.

iMacDaddy,

Thank you for the review, pics and video!

Viewing your movie in slow-mo (@ counter 00:42 - 00:46) it looks like the floating head actually raised up (not pushed down) from the carpeting.  Although this could be do to the brushroll tuffs pushing against the mid/high pile carpeting when the vac is set to a low-pile setting.

Q:  Is the “Airmuscle” pushing (downward) or pulling the nozzle upward when vacuuming your mid/deep pile carpeting?


Thanks,
DIB

I just took another look at iMacDaddy’s video (in slow-mo) and it sure looks like the head is indeed pulled or Airmuscle’d up and off the carpeting.  Unlike what Dyson.com describes (terminology and animation), that is... the Airmuscle pushes into the carpeting.  This vacuum should rank highest of any Dyson at CR, etc.

So...  It looks like Dyson dumbed-down their Airmuscle (sure to come) 30 second t.v. commercial presentation and marketing/description for the consumer.  Folks “get” the concept of a tighter grip on most anything is typically a good thing (i.e. to push the head into carpeting). folks would probably not understand as easily or Dyson could not convey in a 30 second t.v. commercial, etc., the lifting (via suction) carpeting up and into the nozzle story.


What Dyson invented is HUGE!


 DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Hi DIB,

I view the nozzle lifting up as a result of the brush roller pushing down on the carpet, lifting up the floor nozzle as a result.  I like using the "Deep pile" lowest brush roll setting because I feel it delivers the best results for deep cleaning, even though I should probably be using the medium, and even low pile settings for some of the carpets in my household (actually my parents household until I go to college this fall).  Despite the visible lifting, the Airmuscle piston is actually pulling the nozzle inward, which in effect tightens the nozzles contact with the surface.  At first I was curious to see if the piston was actually working at first, since I could not feel the nozzle being pushed into the floor, so I place the maching on a table with the floor nozzle off the edge as I turned the machine on.  As I had it running, I gently kept the nozzle lifted, and as I went from the Bare floor to the Low, Medium, and Deep pile settings, the piston actually did pull in the floor nozzle with considerable amounts of tension.  So now I know that it does indeed function.  I also tried the same test without the clear bin attached (meaning no airflow carried to the floor nozzle), and the air piston did not work, concluding that it draws the pressure from the main airflow, and not from some internal air compressor like I originally theorized.

I also had a little accidental run-in with a sock today that allowed me to see how the clutch would function during an obstruction, and it is not loud and irate like the clutch in a DC07 or DC14.  I didn't even know I ran over the sock until I had noticed the brushroll stopped rotating.  Then I looked over and saw a bright LED flashing from within the translucent red power button.  After that, I turned off the machine for a few seconds, removed the sock, and then turned it back on, and the brush roll was rotating as normal.  Shortly after that, I ran into some loose thick carpeting that was not propertly tacked down into the floor (think of trying to vacuum a bathroom rug), and once again, the clutch activated, with the light flashing again.  Doing what I did before, I turned off the machine, and turned it back on, with the brush roll running again.  The main observation that I gathered from these little mishaps is that the clutch does not emit any loud clicking/ratcheting noises that can be intensely irritating (for me anyway), like with the old DC07 and DC14.  It just stops the brush as an electric motor would with a shut off function.

iMacDaddy wrote:

Oh that's definately better than before. The previous screaming clutch was enough to induce a heart attack in folks of a certain disposition.

It's good that this new model can get more grit out of deeper pile carpets. Just a pity that it took Dyson a few models to get the brush design right.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post your findings.

Trilobite wrote:

Recalling the many number of dyson models that were rolled out, and subsequently were disappointments, and then finally discontinuations [with HUGE numbers of dyson refurbs, repacks, and remanufactures], I have to ask if dyson's timing for finally getting it right [assuming the DC28 does] is too late. 

Carmine D.

redundant post - ignore

redundant post - ignore

redundant post - ignore

Consumer Reports has tested the DC28, and it has earned a "Very Good" score on the carpet cleaning test. They also noted the pet hair performance, as well as tool airflow performance. However, they made a note of how the DC28 may be difficult to push and pull on carpets....which can be the case only if you don't have the brush dropped low enough; like trying to vacuum deep pile carpets with the "short pile" setting.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/06/dyson-dc28-animal-upright-airmuscle-vacuum-consumer-reports-vacuum-reviews-ratings-best-vacuum-dc17.html

iMacDaddy wrote:

The additional gadgetry in the brush roll housing adds to the vacuum's nozzle weight when pushing and pulling.  Add the usual vacuuming resistance from brush roll action, it makes pulling/pushing an issue and the proper height setting more important. 

Carmine D.

Hi,

To be exact CR scored the DC28 as "very good" for carpet, "very good" re tool airflow, "excellent" re emissions, "very good" re pet hair, "excellent" on bare floors, "good" regarding noise but only "fair" in regard to handling.

Though I will never rush out to bring one home, these are the best scores I have ever seen for any single Dyson model by way of CR.

What I also wonder about is how long all this lasts. I feel it's easy to put a new machine through it paces for a short time but the true assessment can't be established until a couple of years or so down the line. How long will the electronic and pneumatic systems endure and are they easily repairable or replaceable by users?

Venson

As usual for dyson his inventions mean nothing to the vacuum cleaner buying public, no benefits at all to the buyer,just an  excuse to keep the r@d money flowing,

You guys talk about everything that means nothing to the consumer,sounds like research lab mumbo jumbo, when is dyson going to learn that a vacuum cleaner is a device for picking up dirt and filth from carpets and flooring? And that as long as the dirt comes out of the carpet the public really doesnt care how,

How much does this piece of artwork cost ? 3 or 4 thousand?

I see the famous dyson cyclone system cant keep up with an industry standard brush system,Oh no what do we do now,retards

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

hi mole

hahahaha...that funny....but heres an answer.....once all the hubub dies down they go on the shelves in the back...where they sit...then years later they  take a load to OPRAH[again] RACHEAL-AND CONAN......and JAY can hand them out as gifts to the passer-bys during his new show.....and if the beancounters  time it just right ...like say around christmas....DYSON can gift them to be re-gifted by our fav talk show hosts......there you go, over filled shelves are now empty.

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

The  BIG 3 for Consumer Reports are Carpet Cleaning, Bare Floor Cleaning and Tool Cleaning.  HOOVER WT Anniversary Edition for $230 aced all 3 of these categories with EXCELLENT.  WRT Emissions, H-WT is EXCELLENT; WRT Handling, H-WT is GOOD, WRT pet hair, H-WT is VERY GOOD, WRT noise, H-WT was FAIR.  Oh well, wax earplugs are cheap enough and prevalent in all stores.  If you're old like me and can't hear well, noise is not a factor for vacuums. 

Carmine D.

Do you guys not have any stores where you can visit and try them out? In the UK we have John Lewis; they let you spend enough time with it before you decide, even if you don't make a purchase.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
iMacDaddy wrote:
iMacDaddy,

Your video shows the nozzle lifting off the carpeting on most of your close-ups - when the brushroll is turned on (and in the recline position)...  this is why I concluded the nozzle was lifting and not pushing into carpeting.  A 3rd look at your video - I could see one time where the nozzle looked like it was pushed into the carpeting....  I gotta say, I’m disappointed with pushing into carpeting strategy vice lifting carpeting to beat, sweep and suction.  The heavy feel/hard to push feel you and others describe about the vacuum is most likely due to the Airmuscle grip.  My DC21’s nozzle is brutal to push/pull/turn on my berber carpeting do the the vacs suction grip, weight of the power nozzle and a handle with little leverage (CR comment of the hard/heavy feel too).  While I am pleased at the amount of pick-up this vacuum achieves, I am disappointed hearing of the heavy/hard to push feel and the sand in the pre-filter.


Thanks,
DIB

mole wrote:

Hey Mole,

You can all ways tell a person that has never used a product.  Go and get a Dyson and try it on your floors and then you will see that picking up dirt and filth from carpets is what a Dyson is all about.  Everyone I know who has a Dyson were shocked at the amount of dirt they get out of their carpets. 

The other beauty of the Dyson is there are no bags to buy and no filters to buy.  I don't have to rush out and look for bags that the manufacturer may not even make any more, (this normally happens every 5 years)  I don't have to worry about filters clogging.

Dyson is the only vacuum cleaner that I have had that does pick up all of the dirt and filth and if you pick up a spoder, you don't have to worry about it crawling down the wand, a Dyson actually kills spiders, no other vacuum does.

And as for the cost, how many cheap machines have you bought, how long have they lasted and what sort of job do they do.  The only way to find out about how good your vacuum is, is to try a Dyson.  A Dyson lasts for years.  I have had mine for 13 years now.

Don't knock something until you have tried it.

regards

Muckytuck

mole wrote:
Muckytuck wrote:
Muckytuck,

Welcome to this forum.

Be forewarned...  Mole is a long time vac independent dealer, who knows his stuff, but hates and bad-mouths Dyson and can do some name calling of us too (I think it’s funny, if it does not go to far).  I’ve learned to debate and even argue with he, Carmine and Venson and some others.  Odd as it may be, I find it fun.  Personally, I like to see how many ways bad-mouthing of Dyson independent dealers expose the tricks of their trade....  the so-called side-by-side Dyson versus their high margin (profit for the independent), antiquated function, built with off-the-shelf-parts, sack-n-choke filtered vacuums.

Lots of vac info shared amongst posters here too.  Although the Dyson story and how he and his team invent product in an industry that believes (the manufacturers believe) the vacuum had peaked and run out of innovations and/or wanted to keep folks slaved to purchasing bags their entire lives.

What Dyson model do you have?  Primarily, the closest “old” Dyson’s we have here in the U.S. are Fantom vacuums.  If you do not already know...  James Dyson licensed his technologies and developed the Fantom vacuum dual cyclone/s for a Canadian company named IONA.


DIB

Muckytuck wrote:

Hi  and welcome to the forum, Would you like to tell us what you did before you started working for dyson??????????

regards

MOLE

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

What you don't realize is that the vacuum store owners and operators get dysons in for repair bot under and out of warranty.  I mentioned here recently [and for the benefit of new posters again] that I visited an authorized dyson dealer for North Las Vegas recently.  In the store there were 6 dysons with clutch problems awaiting okay's from the customers to repair either DC07 and/or DC14 models.  I don't know how many of the owners agreed to the repairs which were for clutches, belt and brush bar run $100-$135 depending on the dealer.  I also mentioned that the store sold several new DC25 ball models and had them returned in several months with bad motor wiring harnesses.  The dyson dealer decided he would no longer sell a DC25 ball until dyson corrected the problem on the new models.  I'll mentioned again that another dyson dealer offered me a full time position to repair/refurb dysons.  Seems many come in and are repaired but the customers do not claim.  The store owner, a Church member of the same church as my daughter and son-in-law, asked me several times if I'm interested in the dyson work.  I've turned him down each time.  His store, back room and front, are filled with dysons in need of repairs, both in and out of warranty. 

Carmine D. 

Hi Carmine, its not that the clutch itself is bad, its the belts that ride on the clutch plate itself, dyson did a lot of R@D on what to use the clutch in but never took into consideration that the belts themselves were the problem[btw these can be fixed] i have taken the clutch apart and put in new belts, Now do you know why the dc17 used a geared tooth belt on the aggresive brush? you know the machine that ate peoples carpets,They just seem to be at a loss in what type of brush and belt system to use,

They should take a lesson from what panasonic did in the late 80s early 90s, the mc series uprights were always at the top of the pack as far as reliability and performance.

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

Now add to the already expensive dyson customers' repairs a "pneumatic actuator"  "high torque clutch" [rather than just the old run of the mill dyson clutch] and a "powered cam" on dyson's latest DC28.   Lot's of luck.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

I understand dyson's DC28 is at the local BEST BUY.  $599.   After I stop off at the ORECK store, I'll drop by BEST BUY and check out the latest dyson upright.  Wondering if the belt on this latest dyson is a customer repair or, like the old run of the mill dyson cluthes, a dealer required repair.  Consumer Reports hasn't yet picked up to the dyson belt replacement/repairs in the clutch models for its rankings/ratings.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Almost  6 beans for a department store dyson, Whats the real price? I quess its a good thing though when a customer is looking at machines in that price range they start looking at the indys  offerings.

Speaking of which why have not the indys enbraced the dc28 with open arms considering that those wicked,no ethics,scammers are strickly profit motivated??

MOLE

mole wrote:
My friend, were I in Vegas or if this was "The Price Is Right", I'd call $350 give or take 20 bucks per a minimum order deal.

Venson

Hello Venson, MOLE et al:

BEST BUY is not the best buy for DC28 [pardon the pun].  Not at 6 beannies.  The sales associate was trying hard to make her very first DC28 sale but not for 6 C notes.  She finally recommended that I watch for BB sales and talked up the BB 30 day price match.  My feeling is this model will drop in price in the near term when it gathers more dust on it than in it.

Impressive rug performer.  Probably the best of all dyson's uprights to date.  The brush roll is vintage DC17 with the extras, cam and clutch.  Not all that heavy at 20.6 pounds unless you set the brush roll for low rug pile.  Then the bulk and weight are very obvious.  On a positive note, the new dyson height adjustments should serve dyson well for pre-empting the rug damage done by the DC17.  The trade off in push/pull weight is the rug cleaning.  You get easier hand and arm feel with the medium adjustment.  Drop it to low and cleaning improves but the airmuscle kicks in the arm-muscle. 

3 months for filter washing cycles on both filters-pre and post according to the sales associate.  I didn't verify.

Carmine D.

PS:

2 End caps go to HOOVER Platinum bagless upright and twin lightweight and canister and to BISSELL.  DC28 relegated to dyson's line up in the vacuum aisle.  No dyson canns.  DC28,DC17, DC25, DC24, DC14 in that order.  Watched the reaction of several shoppers.  Too many dyson models are confusing for most BB vacuum shoppers.  Onlyt two other HOOVER's beside the end caps.  The HOOVER WT Anniversary for $229.  The HOOVER TEMPO for $79. 

Carmine D.

Thanks Carmine.

Venson

Thanks Carmine - a good, objective review.
I suspect the price will fall in time. As is typically at this price range, you get the product out there, sell it for a RRP that's much as the early adaptors will take, then you can offer deep discounts to get people's interest in the next round of sales, which is where your best gains in margin / number of sales. But surely the main objective of this new model is to start getting Dyson some good PR via CR on it's cleaning performance.

It would be nice to see this model sold in the UK, but I have doubts that will happen. Compared to the US, not all that many homes have high pile carpet to justify the spend.

M00seUK wrote:
Hi MOOseUK,

Do you know of any particular reasons why? Price, maintenance, style? For some reason at least for the late '50s on high pile carpeting was considered luxurious in the U.S. Man-made fibers like nylon, etc., made the longer pile wall-to-wall carpeting relatively affordable for just about everyone.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:
Not sure why, I guess just 'the way it is'. It's not to say that people here don't have high pile carpets; our family home used to have this in one room. But my personal experience is that high pile is them norm in the US, at least in the homes I've been in on the west coast.

Thanks MOOseUK,

Just trying to aid to my understanding of the rest of the world's whys and wherefores.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Both are welcome.  My pleasure.

M00seUK, you are not the first here to say dyson has something to prove with a top notch rating from CR.  Severus has noted that the dyson engineers have most likely broken down many SEARS [Panosonic] Progressives and HOOVER Windtunnels and examined both under a microscope to learn their advantages and benefits.

If I were James, an engineer, I'd have my other top notch engineers on notice that their duty and not just their job is to design and produce a vacuum that will not only ace the CR rug performance ratings but ace their rankings.  Anything less than a NUMBER ONE spot is at best a first place loss.  Unacceptable. 

Carmine D.

WRT the rug questions of USA vice UK, possibly the answer lies in the fact that for many years the best and biggest rug makers were here in the US.  Hence their products were more available in the USA than elsewhere in the world.

Carmine D.

WRT dyson prices and sales, KOHL's advertsied sales running June 24 thru July 5 [at 57 Southern California and 5 Las Vegas locations] offer new dyson DC25 for $449 and DC17 Animal for $399.  Plus an additional 15 percent off for seniors and $10 KOHL' s cash for each $50 spent.  After these are sold on sale, I suspect the DC27 [Sam's exclusive] and DC28 airmuscle are next for big box store sales.

Carmine D.

Hi,

I briefly tried out the Dyson DC28 at Best Buy today. The price is down for the Fourth ($509.00). Hose suction is quite nice. The only thing baffling is why the low carpet setting makes you work to move the machine about. My BB has very low-pile commercial carpet tile and I was surprised at the resistance when the cleaner was set to the normally appropriate "low" setting.

The very enthusiastic young salesman on the appliance floor assured me it was better to use the medium setting. I didn't buy the idea but tried it anyway. Set at medium on pile that was low the cleaner of course became easy to push and did pick up surface litter. I can't say that surface litter pick-up would attest to the thoroughness of clean in that or other situations.

The young man also impressed upon me that my life would be changed -- "Direct drive motor, no bags, no belts." He was a nice kid, I tried not to yawn. What was meritable is that first thing, he did a quick demo in regard to filter maintenance. He precisely instructed how they should be rinsed and left to dry thoroughly before replacement.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Thanks for the interesting post.  I was the first to use Best Buy's DC28 display.  I asked the sales lady, a nice young woman who was equally helpful as your BB associate, the following in order to demo test the height adjustments and she agreed.

We unloaded a DC14 bin on the low level flat BB carpet.  I spread it out abot a foot and I walked over it to get it in the rug fibers.  Combination of fine medium and heavy dirt.  Using the medium setting first, and easy to push, I made one slow pass over the rug dirt.  And shut off.  Then I dumped the bin onto a clean rug surface away from the test carpet area.

Next, using the low level adjustment I made the same pass over the rug area I already vacuumed.  Harder to push.  Much more harder.  More stuff picked up.  Then, I dumped the bin next to the previous bin dropping.  Almost as much picked up in the second pass as the first.  Obvious to me that the low level was better performance wise but harder on the arm/wrist muscles.

She watched me and and at this point she was thinking I have a "ringer" on my hands.  But she didn't say so outload.  I mentioned before I complained about the price 600 beannies being too high.  She advised to watch for sales.  And told me about the 30 day BB price match.  $90 bucks off is a nice savings for the latest and greatest dyson right out of the gate.  Combine with another 10-15-20 percent off, and the DC28 price is getting into a range that may attract some vacuum buyers' interest.

Carmine D.

 

Venson wrote:
If it only surface cleans it may be an Oreck with Dyson logos.

HARDSELL wrote:
Hi HS,

Couldn't have been an Oreck --- it had four or five buttons too many.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Touche.  ORECK's forte is simplicity.  Plus excellent performance for the price. 

Carmine D.

Dyson DC28 AirMuscle promo video.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux3KH3q3_DE

Popular Mechanics, Consumer Reports and Wired give the DC28 high marks.  Wired also gives it their “Editors Pick”.        DIB


Wired:  http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/pr_dyson_dc28_animal

Consumer Reports:  http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/06/dyson-dc28-animal-upright-airmuscle-vacuum-consumer-reports-vacuum-reviews-ratings-best-vacuum-dc17.html

Popular Mechanics:  http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal_news/4322140.html

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Wired and Popular Mechanics are industry paid source materials, paraphrasing your and HS criticism for CR.  Apparently your opinions on the worthiness of these reviewers depends on whether the reviews suit your needs.  Again, you don't read very well and impute your perspective into CR's words.  High Marks?  A "very good" vice a "good" is high marks?  At $600 beannies?  Promise  is a high mark? The caveat about performance and price about dysons is a high mark?   I excerpted for you to re-read again. 

"The promise behind all that technology is better cleaning, since the system separately adjusts the vacuum head and brush to the cleaning surface. Dyson also says the automated process makes the vacuum easier to push.

This latest Dyson earned a very good in our carpet-cleaning test and did better than most of its brand mates, getting a very good instead of Dyson’s usual good. It also scored well in our pet-hair test and in airflow for tools—a plus when you need to get spilled cereal and other messes out of the nooks and crannies of a couch. Four friendly push-button height settings are another plus, since you can still do some adjusting on your own.

But as our handling test revealed, the DC28's added pulling power made this 21-pound vacuum relatively hard to push and pull. And while Dyson has been among the most reliable brands of upright vacuum in our repair surveys, some recommended models and CR Best Buys from similarly reliable brands cost hundreds less. The D17 Absolute Animal, $550, also scored a very good in our carpet tests."

Carmine D.

The reviews are starting to pop up on Bestbuy.com website and as of right now it has a perfect score 5 of 5 stars...

Hello Ace:

Thanks for the info.  9 reviews so far in almost 2 months most of these first time product reviewers.  Stars are an indicator to a point.  HAve to read the details.  Devil always there.  I just gleaned over the 9 reviews and will take a closer reading, of course especially the one from Woodbridge VA.  I have noted these negative comments on these reviews despite the 4/5 star ratings: Hard to push, heavy, pricey, hair and rug wrap on the brush, small dirt bin container.  Even with the 5 star ratings?  It's called the honeymoon period of the product purchase.  I'm sure more will come including a full blown review by Consumer Reports which already highlighted some of these negatives.  But so far off to good start.  $600 beans?  I'm sure some of these paid less with the discounts being offered. 

What was that about HSN exclusivity? 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You would be declaring Hoover or Oreck winners by a landslide with 9 positive reviews.

Back to Dyson.  9 positive out of 9 is still 100% positive. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

9 reviews in 2 months does not a product reputation make regardless of the brand and particularly for a very new product.  If you look at the category ratings they are not all 5's but close.  The reviewers gave the product an overall 5 despite the lesser average if properly combined.  Hence, you can't go by the stars alone.  You have to read the details.   AT best, if the product is not a red herring as may be the case, it is a niche seller.

BTW, at least 3 of the same of these reviewers had comments about other dysons: DC07, and DC25.  DID YOU READ WHAT THEY SAID?  Devil is always in the details.  Like I said 2 months is not a long time to make a valid review.  Takes much longer to know for sure.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Thanks for helping me understand the rating system, especially the ' devil in the details '.  I now know how Oreck gets its ratings.  Read the full reviews and it is about weight and not cleaning performance.  Then you just use a higher value for the star that rates weight over performance an viola you have a high rated Oreck.

Thanks again.

HARDSELL wrote:

Anytime.  Try one free.  People enjoy using them daily.  And the free canister comes with a better set of attachments than the $60 set with the DC31 handheld.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Ah yes.  The old toilet shuffle.  Topic is the DC28 upright.  No real need for a seperate canister.  Great hose suction as compared to Oreck.  Oh sorry.  Oreck does not have a hose.  Is that because it does not create enough suction like Hoover, because it would clog or becauser it adds weight.  Probably the first 2.

The only toilet shuffle is flushing $500 down one on a dyson.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Doesnt DYSON  and a toilet use the same CYCLONIC principle. Now does anyone know why rainbow is known as the portable cesspool.

MOLE

The more I think, the more I'm concerned that dyson has a $600 red herring on his hands.  Most here in the biz will know and say that the positioning of the cam on the brush roll of the DC28 is prone to trapping dirt and hair.  This dirt collection has always been problematic to brush roll ends and bearings.  We know that as a fact.  What makes dyson think it won't be for a cam that depends on cleanliness and freedom from dirt to operate properly.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:  Im no engineer..nor an expert on this new power head  but wouldnt a floating head with a little weight added  produce the same effect / results as a powered one/broll  at a much needed lower cost.   im just not seeing where it is really a huge factor...or better than height adjst / weighted floating head.   ive read every post and im curious as to why dyson doesnt say he was wrong....about height adj. and redo the head to accomidate the lever /knob.... make the ajustments in smaller settings to better fine tune to the carpet...its way cheaper and no reliability issues.....saves everybody money across the board. not putting him or his idea down.....hes a gifted man...but some things are fine and better left alone.

I personally think the floating head principle works fine for the most part in the UK and similar places that favour short pile carpeting. Dyson's original reasoning is that height adjustments on the cleaning head were rarely used and thus often incorrectly set, so for many people in many situations the floating head idea was a better compromise.

Clearly, in the US they've struggled to get a top rating on deep cleaning ability. The unofficial line appears to be that many of their competitors with better results in the tests achieve this by being over aggressive, causing carpet wear. If you recall on this forum a few years ago, someone posted non-public photos sourced via Dyson that showed carpet damage reprehensive of other  cleaners.

So, the Dyson DC28 is what they're putting forward as the answer... well if you're prepared to pay for it. I suspect the initial goal will be to see if they can get it to the top of the CR tests and similar - that would be a PR victory (of which they're so fond) at the very least.

M00seUK wrote:

wouldnt  rollers with replacable brushes [soft-med-stiff ] solve this prob....or a med texture bristle with a stiffner strip achive a deep clean with minimal carpet wear...you would think that more research would go into to the b-roll....i also see where and have learned that on eurekas vg-2 roller it vibrates as it cleans....a deep clean with less wear...many swear by the vg-2 but wonder why its not used in todays by-pass systems.  i feel that to achieve that deep clean your gonna have wear no matter what...so its a trade off...you take the good you gotta xpect  a little bad....just seems like alot of motors and gears/mechanisims to go wrong /tear up...at high cost. to repair./replace. At the price currently..and economy the way it is.im not seeing too many ready to dump down a load of cash....and as long as CR rates dysons as they have...they will never achive that initial goal....and if they tie with the leader...it means it took dyson many-many -many hundreds of dollars more to do it.

ive yet to see those pictures./posts....will see if i can track it down but thanks for the info on it

turtle1

Consumer Reports is positively influenced by rug height adjustments.  Likes them and recommends vacuums with them.  I recall the photos that M00seUK references.  As I recall, they were just photos w/o descriptions.  No information about the vacuum and/or rug types causing the problems.  It's difficult for a self-adjusting vacuum to do well in the USA.  The only brand of exception is ORECK due to the lightweight.  And as mentioned ORECK excels on low to medium carpet heights.  Too high, and it takes extra muscle to pull and push, the problem with DC28. 

Carmine D.

I believe the photos were taken from an internal / dealer video presentation by Dyson and that the vacuum used in one comparison was the Hoover Windtunnel. It appeared that the Hoover had been running on a carpeted test rig. A section of the carpet was displayed, showing visible wearing as tracks in the pile. Of course, there's nothing to substantiate the claims and Dyson are highly unlikely to go public with these findings. It would fair to assume that the DC28 has been designed as their best compromise of deep down cleaning, while reducing carpet wear.

I like the idea of the DC28 for the tech used, but subjectively wonder if deep down cleaning is required in most homes? Sure, some people will worry about cleanliness and others will have a desire to have the latest and greatest, regardless of the expense. But, personally I don't see it as a big issue.

I remember being curious about carpet height adjusters on vacuums when I was younger. We had an Electrolux with two settings and a Hoover with three. The Hoover needed to be tipped forwards to change the setting - I don't think my parents ever really used it as a result. So, makes good sense to have the switch in an accessible place.

I suspect that Dyson could have easily added a more aggressive brush roll when fitting up the DC07 (and later models) for the US launch. However, you perhaps have to appreciate their typical approach. Being 100% owned by the Dyson family, James has the freedom to do things his own way. There might well have been a decision on the choice of brush roll, with James preferring to 'do it the proper way' rather than fit an over aggressive brush.

A publicly owned company would likely have made a different decision, for the short term financial gain. But Dyson seem happy to get their returns by other long-term means like with the digital motor leading to the hand drier product and the patents filed for possible kitchen appliances, etc. So long as they can maintain sales and cashflow, the company stays private and benefits from greater investment of profits from reduced dividends, away from volatile financial markets.

M00seUK wrote:

Thanks M00seUK:  I do recall the reference to HOOVER WT.  In fact the poster if I recall correctly used the non-public data to bash HOOVER's WT technology.  Ironically, dyson's DC17 Absolute Animal which has rated in the top 10 by Consumer Reports and or close, has been accused of being too aggressive and causing carpet damage.  With carpet maker[s] voiding its warranty if dysons are used.  This has never been the case for HOOVER vacuums.

WRT dyson sales and cashflow, is dyson accomplishing its targeted sales and profit goals in the UK in 2008/09?

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:
Hi MOOseUK,

The big issue about deep cleaning is not only about cleaning or cleanliness but about reducing carpet wear by getting at material (grit, sand, etc.) that sinks down to the base of carpet fibers and cut into those fibers as we walk walk over the rug everyday. Let me add that I have seen far more carpeting, whether cheap or expensive, go to pot from little or no vacuuming than from frequent or regular vacuuming.

Deep cleaning ability has been used as a vantage point for selling vacuums for years and years BUT it all depends on the way life is lived in an individual home. In any home where good carpet is installed and that has several inhabitants and lots of traffic in and out, deep cleaning is far more an issue. In a home were there is not a lot of traffic or activity there's probably a lot less to worry over in regard to rug wear. Not necessarily considered fashionable, in a home where broadloom protectors employed (runners in high traffic areas, throws or matching pieces of carpet in front of seating in a living room) the picture changes too.

I've always liked the liked vacuums that can carry you well no matter your living condition. If your carpeting is not in a very challenging environment you merely use a good vacuum to keep it fresh and groomed. That just takes a pass or two per square foot However, in even the quietest homes things happen. Out of the blue you may just happen to have very active guests come to call or have to open your door to workmen after the ceiling falls in. It never hurts to be reasonably prepared.

A good vacuum is like a good car. You may spend the larger part of your time riding on level ground but it's good to know that you can travel up a hill without problem should you come to one.

Best,

Venson

Venson wrote:

HI Venson

I always figured if you sit or lay on your carpet....allow shoes in the house. then this means you need a deep cleaner.  more so if you have kids or pets.

for lighter duty just raise height a little.....and once a year or less wet/dry clean your carpets.....whatever works best....as my knowledge is limited as to what do it yourself system is best for heavy traffic carpet....

retardturtle1 wrote:
Hi turtle1,

First, vacuum cleaners do not sanitiize. They pick up dirt and litter but do not effectively remove bacteria, etc., save for the Halo claims which I doubt strongly. Deep cleaning for a vacuum is no more than removing grit and dirt that gets worked all the way down into the carpet. Some machines do this better than others.

I have but one friend here who asks that you remove your shoes when you enter his home -- and not for religious purposes. He is diabetic and feels his chances for contracting foot problems will be lessened. This is a very serious issue for folks with the same condition. Is the practice of benefit? I do not know.

Second, you do not adjust a vacuum for "light duty". You simply use it less. Room to room, if you have a variety of carpeting, you determine the proper settings for your upright or canister with power nozzle and use them. That said, as I said prior, if there's not been a lot going on trafficwise in the room your cleaning -- just a couple passes with a good vac is all that called for for there. You simply want to pick up surface dust and keep the rug looking peppy. In a room where there's lot's of activity and stuff being tracked in you obviously want to spend more time because there is more to be dealt with.

As far as sanitizing, the best you can do is have your carpeting thoroughjy cleaned once or twice a year. Use of a vapor steam cleaner periodically between cleanings may be helpful in killing bacteria and dust mites. However, the issue there remains debatable since you can never get them all and both bacteria and dust mites all breed quickly and in volume.

Again, you just need on good vacuum for multi-tasking. Just a little traffic etc. means just a little vacuuming. A lot of traffic, a lot of stuff being tracked in -- vacuum more.

Venson

dyson DC28 Airmuscle Animal Vacuum

$529.00

Looks like one dealer advertising here has already dropped the price by $70 and offers free same day shipping and no sales tax.

Let the price wars begin.  HSN eat your hearts out.

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:
Hello Moose,

Marrying a full-proof way (the floating nozzle) to a clear bin was genus.  CR can say all it wanted or rate the Dyson as low as it wanted...  it did not matter.  Word of mouth and/or HSN demos sold the vacuum BIG TIME.  IMO, the floating nozzle is less about “not having knobs to fiddle with” and more about insuring debris makes it into the clear bin with ever users.  Insuring the bin filling up with every user was always the goal, AND IT WORKED!


DIB

If dyson sees a floating head on a full size upright as genius then rug height adjustments on vacuums must be the equivalent of a miracle.  No one save a person in a frozen sleep, read mummy, would agree.

Carmine D. 

The dirt embedded in a rug, if not removed, overtime is the key element for premature rug wear and damage.  All rug makers will attest to it.  The Carpet and Rug Institute says so too.  A rug can hold its weight in dirt and still look clean.  If that dirt is not removed, the carpet wears out.  Back to the dyson's latest.  It claims to get ouyt the deep down dirt.  Question:  IN comparison to what other brands/models?  Dysons?  Make the claim, prove the claim, and see how many sell for $500-$600.  Make the claim, don't prove the claim, and see how many sell for $500-$600.  With such a claim, dyson MUST seek the approval of the CRI.  As proof.  If not, good luck.  Perhaps the same people DIB talks about buying $300 dyson handhelds will buy dysons with rug adjustments.  Of course if one waits, one/another may be gifted with purchase of the other.  

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

What percentage of U.S. vacuum users adjust their height adjustments correctly from room to room?  In the past, CR did not explicitly and in bold messaging tell its readers that their carpet cleaning findings are based on having the perfect/near perfect height setting.  Could CR not find print space just under where they claim to be non-bias and just above where they are in need of millions of dollars in "donations." 

I'm not interested in your opinion or you walking up and down the isles at Best Buy or interviewing folks in the Costco parking lot determining if Dyson products have value.  I am interested in studies.  What's the number (percentage)? 


DIB

DIB:

The nose knows! 

Since Sir James, your leader, added height adjustments to his latest vacuum invention and charges extra for it, I presume he/dyson, if not you, believes rug adjustments are important enough and warranted if one wants to have the benefits of deep clean carpeting. 

If you read my write-up here about dyson's DC28, it might enlighten you as to the reason height adjustments make a difference.  That is if you can comprehend too.

Carmine D.

As to percentages of users, depends.  Sometimes all of them.  Sometimes none of them.  Most times somewhere in between.

The answer to the question, like the question, is irrelevant.  The question, more appropriately SHOULD BE if vacuum users want/need height adjustments for carpet cleaning in their homes, what brands and models have them and for how much.  For example: HOOVER TEMPO offers 5 on for $75-$80.  THe latest from your company offers 4 for $500-$600. 

Carmine D.

To use the same idiocy as you, I can ask the same dumb question in reverse and query:  What percentage do not?   Do you have a study with the answer? 

Of course not.  It's a make believe question with an answer that is unknown and more correctly moot.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Is it not the people...the actual users of the product that you want to hear from and talk to.  The shoppers who buy / why they bought.  likes / dislikes.....changes youd make..ect. .... best info in the world is the customer/owner. they will tell you all you want to know.....cant get any better than that.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

You just admitted 2/3 rd’s of all U.S. vacuum users do not adjust their height adjustments properly.  Confirming Dyson choosing the floating head method was indeed a brilliant [genius] business move.


DIB

DIB:

Your mind is so filled with drivel no wonder it's prone to bouts of idiosy.  

The majority of vacuum customers who seek out/buy upright vacuums specifically for the need of rug height adjustments do so to use them.  A floating head made famous by HOOVER with the DAM was problematic on many of the carpets in the 1960's.  HOOVER soon added adjustments in very short order.   It doesn't take genius to know it could not work 40 plus years later on the same/more thickly piled styles and heights.  Quite the contrary.  Not benefiting from the knowledge/lessons of the past only allows supposed innovators to repeat the same failed missteps.  If that's genius, stand in line with the people who P.T. Barnum says are born every 6 minutes and most likely dyson's target audience of buyers.  That is wealth and money allowing.

Carmine D.

In a purely unscientific study...of the 8 uprights I have in for repair at the moment all but one are set on the lowest carpet setting.  The one that's not is set to "bare floors"

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Sounds like they might not be Dysons.

HARDSELL wrote:
No, not Dysons. Samsungs, Bissells, Hoovers and Eurekas.

Dusty

dusty wrote:
Dusty,

I remember about a 1 1/2 yrs. ago or so you posted most vacuums that come in for repair come in with height adjustments set to the lowest position.  THANKS.


DIB

Hi DIB,

To be fair, Carmen also pointed out that as performance drops customers will tend to lower the height thinking it will work better which I have no doubt is also true.  I do believe the majority however, and this is from watching customers as they try vacuums in the store, have a tendency to drop the height to it's lowest assuming that it's the best setting. In store, I can correct them but unfortunately if they are buying from a big box they will never be told...but that's why we sell belts :-)

Dusty

dusty wrote:

hi dusty

 So whats your method of ajustment on a slide height adjuster....and i agree that most come in with the lowest  setting....so low that the brushes have curved. or bearings melted roller ends......my local bbox has the worst cust serv....so you better know all about what you want/need....cause your on your own.

turtle1

retardturtle1 wrote:
With the handle out of the upright position and the height adjust on it's highest level we have the customer drop the height down until they hear a change of pitch as the brush starts to hit the carpet.  We get them to try vacuuming at that setting and if they're not feeling it's doing the job the drop it down no more than one more level.

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Thanks....im on the right track.  but im always open to a diff approach. if you got a way to do something better ill sure try it.

turtle1

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

You never fail to prove/reprove what I have know about you for years here: You have a complete lack of getting it/forgetting the crux of the matters during the thread discussions.  Thank goodness Dusty suffers fools more easily than me.  Thank you Dusty.

Carmine D.

PS DIB:

You once commented on my voluminous posts here in such a short period of time of doing so.  You didn't get it there either.  It's stating and restating the obvious over and over ad infinitum to the likes of you who can't/won't comprehend plain and simple English. 

Then again James/dyson, your leaders, are just as bad.  Witness the recent thread discussions with floating self-adjusting dyson vacuum heads and exobitant outlandish hand held prices for lackluster performing products.  

Carmine D.