Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Carmine,

This will probably fall under your area of expertise and experience, but all are welcome to contribute. As I transition from being unemployed to being self-employed, I am looking for more specialized services to offer my clients.

There are specialized 'rug dusters' for sale which tap the accumulated dirt, dust, sand, and grit out of Oriental rugs by laying them face down over a grid which gives the debris room to fall. These cost upwards of 4,000.00! These have been developed as an alternative to the huge stationary 240 volt dusting machines. All of this to replace regular vacuuming with a Hoover 300, 700, or 150, the ones with the dual divergent agitator bars, with shorter agitator bars and bristle strips in between on each side.

The magic of the Hoover was that the 5,000 taps per minute during slow motion vacuuming set up a wave pattern that  vibrated the rug, dislodging the dirt, sand, and grit. It was not accomplished with tremendous suction, though the airflow was good, it was the balance of enough suction to keep snapping the rug up after each tap. The sand was not actually beaten out of the rug as much as the rug was pushed down leaving the sand in mid-air to be caught by the airflow generated by the fan, as explained by the laws of Newtonian physics.

My question is this: Short of finding and restoring a few 150 Hoovers, is there any alternative? Would any later model Hoovers accept the dual divergent agitator? How late? A current Guardsman, maybe, with some alteration perhaps?

A Kirby with a cloth bag has been suggested to me. A G series will not accept a full-fledged sani-emptor, and probably is too powerful to sustain the tap/snap action. A cloth bag would yield too much airflow, and a hepa bag too little as it fills. A Heritage I with a cloth bag seems the only other possibility. The Sanitaire Vibra-Groomer I is not sufficient, about the same as the standard Hoover agitator with just one strip of beater bar per side.

The idea of being able to restore neglected Oriental rugs with simple thorough vacuuming for good pay is very appealing. As I understand it, Hoover abandoned this configuration of agitator because as area rugs gave way to wal to wall carpet, it did not grab and hold the wall-to-wall carpet as well as the newer, less expensive to produce version, which had just the one spiral strip per side. Hoover could have ruled if they had stuck to being a status symbol. Imagine being able to switch out the roller and bottom plate to adapt the vacuum to whatever carpet/rug/floor needed to be cleaned. The mind boggles, while the Hoover just beats, as it sweeps, as it cleans...

Trebor

Model2 wrote:

A sign of maturity is to accept constructive criticism and profit by it. 

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:

Both the same inventor, let readers draw their own conclusions as to the worthiness of the products.

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:

I live in the Las Vegas desert.  I'm highly qualified to do so. 

Carmine D.

Trebor wrote:
I’ve seen a photo (online) of a staff member at 10 Downey Street using a DC02 on the front walk and porch and long before Dyson received any accolades.  Sir James mentions it in an BBC interview.

James Dyson wrote in his autobiography - when the Queen presented him the CBE Award and asked (something like)...
Queen:  So, Mr. Dyson, just what is it that you do?
Dyson:  I make the Dyson vacuum cleaner.
Queen:  Oh, we use lots of them in the palace.

The Henry Vacuum is designed and manufactured in England.  10 Downey Street and the Palace staffers/decision makers passed on the Henry for new, radical technology...  the Dyson.

DIB

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:G5gFlc-2_zsJ:news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3113002.stm+dyson+10+downing+street&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

The purchase of a particular brand of product by a high-profile customer provides leverage to the idea that "you too will be of like stature if you purchase our product." But all it really means is that at a particular moment in time, someone associated with a highly regarded entity with the authority to make a purchasing desicion did so. And that is all it means.

At one time or another Kirby, Electrolux, Hoover and Sebo vacuums (that I am aware of) have all been purchased for use in the White House. Sebo boasts of purchases by the Kremlin and Buckingham Palace as well. Does that mean that every other vacuum was rounded up and disposed of? Doesn't seem likely if they still work, does it? Kirbys were also purchased at one time by the Navy for use on board ship because of their versatility. The purchase order explained of why all other vacuums onboard would be repalced with Kirbys. Silver Kings have seen widespread commercial use in Federal and state institutions.

Filter Queens have been used in major colleges and universities, hospitals and medical centers, in US nuclear submarines, and to clean the Indianapolis race track before the big race. There were of course photo op shots in the dealers 'proof' books, along with glowing letters of recommedation. Filter Queens and Compacts have both been used by major airlines to clean the cabins of jet liners. Rainbows have been purchased by the Winterthur Museum. Oreck boasts the patronage of 5 star hotels around the world, but some of those clients have since replaced those Orecks with Windsor/Sebos because of lower operating costs, including less downtime, and the convenience of onboard tools as opposed to carrying/using a second vac for tool useage.  And at one time Hoovers were the preferred vacuum of many hotels.  Now Pro-Team boasts an ever growing list of high-profile customers.

So what? What does any of it matter? The purpose of this forum is primarily to assist people who are shopping for a vacuum cleaner to make an informed, IMPARTIAL decision based upon their needs and budget, not for any of us to promote our own agendas. An opinion is an opinion. Facts and figures are fine, but oft times their meaning or relevance are subject to interpretation. And for the record, "Doesn't lose suction" IS AN ADVERTSING SLOGAN, copyrighted by Dyson. Slogans do not have to be subjected to factual scrutiny, which is why the Oreck/D**** dispute was thrown out as old business already handled.  "Pepsi, the choice of the younger generation" "Coke, it's the real thing" "You're in Good Hands with Allstate" "Doesn't Your Dog Deserve Alpo?" "Hallmark, when you care enough to send the very best." "Better Ingredients, better pizza-Pappa John's" "Behold the power of cheese" "There's more for your life-at Sears" "All the news that's fit to print" "Brylcreme, -A l'il dab'll do ya" "Purina, so complete, all you add is love." "Miele-Anything else is a compromise" The list goes on and on and on and on. None of it, NONE of it MEANS anything. It is all JUST MARKETING, and you-know-which is JUST A VACUUM CLEANER.  It is not going to match you up with your soulmate, get you a raise, help you lose 10 lbs, or balance your checkbook. It might give you a cleaner rug if you like it well enough to use it, but that's all. I fear for the future of this forum if we don't al settle down and get back on track. The original VacWeb forum was discontinued for shenanigans such as we have been seeing here lately. If someone says their opinion is thus and so, then take them at their word, stop antagonizing. We are vacuum cleaner gentlemen. If you are a sweeper hooligan do us all a favor and take your two cents worth elsewhere

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Trebor,  If we were talking about cat food there are a few regulars who would be critical of Dyson.  It looks as if you have joined the ranks.  Two forums were closed in part to a regular Dyson basher.  It seems as if the two of you may be brown nosing the other.

What is good for one is good for all.  You ask us to quietly accept a biased opinion, misleading information or a lie. Yet you fail to caution these bashers to keep quiet.

There are gentlemen here only as long as we listen to their BS or brown nose them. 

Why not do us a favor.  Read only what you like and ignore the rest or take your own advise and go elsewhere.

To All,

It is unfair and untrue to label anyone a basher of anything just because he/she does not share the same level of enthusiasm for it. Most of what I have posted here has been in the seeking of new information, or is based on my personal experience with vacuums. I prefer and use Passap and Superba knitting machines, but that doesn't mean Brother, Silver Reed, and Toyota are not valid options for those who prefer them. I've used Dysons, and didn't care for them. I have seen lots of them setting in vac shops needing extensive repair. But, for someone who is a fastidious housekeeper, and takes excellent care of their household equipment, Dyson could be a very satisfactory choice because for that type of individual it IS likely to last through the warranty without having any major problems. Like most expensive devices, Dysons have a bit of a learning curve if major problems are to be avoided. The only other thing I have ever said about Dysons is that they are marketed to those consumers least likely to learn to use them properly so they WILL last through the warrany period. That is not Dyson bashing. I won't even call it fact or truth, it is simple observation. The ones not in the repair shop are working, correct? And if they are working, people are using them properly, right?

Dyson is a vacuum cleaner, one choice among many, but still JUST A VACUUM CLEANER. I don't care if people buy them or not, but that does not make me a Dyson basher. I'm just tired of people treating Dyson like it's a religion and trying to convert everyone who doesn't share the same opinion, and calling people who are indifferent to them 'Dyson Bashers.' Dyson has made a ton of money, good for him, so has David Oreck.  I like Kirbys and Rainbows, and quite recently have developed an interest in very old Hoover uprights, but  I'm not trying to convince anyone that those are the only choices worth considering. I don't like oysters on the half shell, but if people like them and want to eat them, hey, why should I care? If you look back at my posts, when people start flying off the handle, I have tried to interject a note of rationality or humor to remind people this is not life and death we are discussing. Everyone sees through their own filters. A rational man acknowledges that his opinion is not the only one. An irrational man dismisses all disagreement as the babbling of infidels, and insists only he sees 'THE TRUTH".  I have opinions, but I am MORE than my opinions, and my self esteem does not depend on how many people I get to agree with me, or crucify for disagreeing with me. It's just a vacuum cleaner.

And, for the record, I am not suggesting that anyone accept another's opinion as their own, but simply not to antagonize someone else by telling HIM what his OWN opinion is.

Trebor

CarmineD wrote:

Let’s re-examine your constructive criticism (fuelled, of course, not by spite, but a true, heartfelt desire to help) shall we?

'There are nicks and scuffs on the chrome [sic].  Whovever buffed it out missed them and its very obvious.' - Yes, there are nicks and scuffs. It's an 83-year old cleaner that's given many years of faithful service, not something I just bought at John Lewis. Some of the scratches are quite deep, doubtless from being pushed repeatedly under a particular item of furniture by its former owner. No amount of buffing will remove them, and nor would I want to.

'Hope it's not my friend in NC.' - He’s no friend of yours, Carmine. He's a good person, and somebody worthy of being called an expert.

'The rivets holding the bumper are rusted and in need of a good cleaning and new coat of lacquer paint.'  - Again, they're showing their age, at 83. Granted, they could do with a light cleaning, but lacquer paint? Why would I add that - they wouldn't have been painted originally, although given your particular 'grasp' of Hoover history, I wouldn't expect you to know this. I'm sure your "friend" BOSS Hoover forgives you (he does this a lot, doesn't he? Thank heavens he was a man of God!).

'But, on a positive note, the MIELE in the background looks pretty and perfect' - It's a modern machine which has only been used lightly. Since I prefer uprights, I’ll be trading it soon for an S7. Did you have a point here, or are we playing 'I spy...'? 

'And I love the words on the bottom of the 700 bag, "empty after each use." ‘ - If you look at the photo again, you'll see it actually says, 'Empty each time used'. Good try, though.

'Tho if I recall correctly in another picture from another view, the bag had a botched stitch job.' - The "botched" stitch job is certainly not my work. When I repair bags, they're patched unobtrusively from the inside, so the repair doesn't show. The stitching (actually on the bag of my Model 800 - I know, these "Greater Hoovers" all look the same to the untrained eye), was in fact the work of the machine's former owner, a housewife of the make-do-and-mend era. Why would she pay money for a new bag, when she could just darn the small tear herself? No, it's not a neat job, but one borne out of frugality and practicality on her part. I'm sure the resultant aesthetics of the task were far from her mind. However, it's part of the history of the machine, and adds a certain charm to it. I chose not to repair it. You may feel differently, but that’s the great thing about opinion.

'Very amateurish for a rebuilding job of such a fine specimen of vacuum history.' - I can assure you, yours is decidedly the minority view here. It's easy to sit at your computer and make snide remarks about other people's work. Why don’t you offer us some of your own, so others can offer you ‘constructive criticism’? Or perhaps you don't have any actual experience to share?

'Another pet peeve of mine.' - You have so many "pet peeves", Carmine, it's a wonder you ever get out of bed.

I hope you can sleep easier tonight, now I’ve graciously answered your good-natured concerns.

Hey guys,

Adamant xxx that I am about some things -- and ready to stand toe to toe with just about anybody if I feel I'm right -- isn't some of this stuff, especially if it's going to get personal, better served by PMing each other? Nothing is being helped.

You all have tremendous talents and perceptions plus loads of personal experience that have served many of us well. Continued jibes and obligatory retorts regarding issues that are, were and still will be debatable are clouding the view of all that.

Best,

Venson

Trebor wrote:

Hi Trebor:

You'll recall for many many years that all HOOVER vacuums carried the inscription:  "HOOVER makes rugs last longer."  Which all the major rug makers wholeheartedly agreed with.

Carmine D.