Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I'm not very impressed with the design, but there's a guy who offers a way to convert Kirbys from bag to dirt canister.  Unfortunately, it doesn't offer dual cyclone or better technology.  It looks like you clean the pleated filter after every use.  I think I'd rather pay for bags than this gimmick.

http://www.kirbybagsneveragain.com/

Just wrote:

Hello Just:

I agree in theory.  In practice I would add the usual manufacturer and profressional's caveat:  If the user follows the inventor's instructions: Dumps after each use and cleans/replaces the filter frequently.  Something, not all consumers do, especially consistently.  While the KIRBY uses a top fan for armature balance and cooling the motor, the KIRBY inner/outer bags also serve a dual purpose, i.e. to contain the dust/dirt and assist the motor from overheating/running hot by allowing exhaust air out. 

I suspect if the invention's users do not follow directions carefully, there will be two immediate short term negative results:  (1)Motor running hot; and (2) build up of dirt on the fan and in the motor compartment of the KIRBY.  Both these conditions have adverse impacts.  Both [hot temp and dirt contamination] can be measured w/o the KIRBY vacuum being dissassemble.  At an absolute minimum, if I were so inclined to go KIRBY bagless and buy this invention for usage, [and I'm not], I would want to see independent test results for these two measurements by an ASTM, or some such recognized entity, to attest to the findings under normal and usual household conditions.  Short of this, I would be highly suspect of the affects of the bagless invention on the longevity of the KIRBY's operations and KIRBY's warranty.

Carmine D.

Just wrote:
Sorry Just --

There was no swirl. It's quite natural for heavier stuff to stay at the bottom of the bag. The Sani-Emtor was merely a collection bin meant to allow for easier emptying of Kirby's cloth bag. It got you around having to detach the whole bag for emptying and also undoing top clamps ala Hoover. Most cloth bag uprights had small inlets and a large, usually slide on in type, clamp had to be removed for thorough emptying. Older Hoovers however, prior disposable bags, had large openings for dirt entry that also allowed you not to have to empty them by way of the top opening. In regard to emptying, Kirby was the most innovative.

When ready to empty, you shook the Kirby bag from the top and ideally everything within fell into the Sani-Emtor. Later down the line around the early 1960's the Sani-Emtor was still in use but an internal sleeve was added to the bag and there was some kind of scraper on the end of it. You inserted a hand into the sleeve and brushed the inside bag wall free of cling lint and dirt. That done you put the cleaner on spread out newspaper and opened the Sani-Emtor. No cyclonics or swirl at all.

Venson

Ahh, Venson your bringing me back in time, the sani-emptor, omegas and classic3, with the zipper on the bag and the scraper to shed the dirt from the inside of the outer bag, If the customer had pets or did not clean the bag everytime it was used, the already heavy weight machine looked like the outer bag was giving birth. I use to really enjoy stuffing my arm up the bag through the emptor and trying to get it free from lodged pet hair[NOT]. It took longer to do this than to change the front bearing,fan, and the safety switch,But heck it was my job. After going through this nonsense i firmly believe that no fan first upright should use a dirt cup or bagless dirt bin. Bagless set ups are ok for electric brooms and black and decker dustbusters.............

MOLE

Venson wrote:

That damn lying Kirby salesman.  What exactally did the air do while it was being forced into the fill tube?  Yea, it swirled.  Not saying cyclonic, G-d forbid anyting should have a cyclone.  Just look at the way the sand drops into the sani-emptor of a Tradition, Heritage, Legend It piles to one end, and usually underneath the air exaust port not to the back as would be suspected.  Tradition especially used a smaller fill tube and restricted the airflow more than the later machines, you can see the effect.

I will have to admit the only time I used my Kirby as a truely bagless machine is when I was out of bags so I hooked the hose up to the blower end and hung it out the bedroom window.

Being a gadget freak I decided to buy one of the upright tornado cyclonic bagless conversion kits for my Sentria. It took Jim keeler exactly a month from the time I paid ($79.00) for it to the time it was delivered to my doorstep. Upon opening the box it was readily apparent to me that this thing was slapped together in a hurry. There are gobs of excess glue around the hole where the pipe was fitted to the canister, very low quality black paint on the PVC pipe and black magic marker used to fill in the spots where the paint didn't stick. The pipe on my unit was attached near the top of the unit almost touching the green cap which is not how it was pictured in his ad on ebay. BTW, he is no longer selling on ebay and has deleted his account. With the tube attached so high up on the chamber/cup it blows directly onto the filter which will cause it to clog faster IMHO. Since this bagless canister was designed for the Eureka it has a rectangular hole near the top opposite where Jim drilled the hole for the PVC pipe to be inserted. This rectangular hole was covered with a piece of cut out plastic and super glued into place. The glue holding this plastic patch in place was not very good and when I gently rubbed it with my finger it promptly fell off. I had to get some super glue and re-attach the patch to the hole before I could even try out the bagless conversion. When I attached it to my Sentria I observed that it rides about 2 inches off the floor at the most. The exhaust blows straight down onto the floor which is why this model isn't recommended for bare floors as it would just blow all the dirt around before the Kirby could suck it up. Another thing I noticed is that the green cap has no seal at all and air was blowing out around the cap. It was also escaping from the square patch area where it was glued because I didn't seem to get it sealed any better than Jim had. I ran the vacuum over my entire house and the thing that I don't like about this bagless conversion is that it allowed small amounts of dirt to escape through the leaky lid and patch. I know this to be the case because cat hair from my 2 cats was sticking halfway out in several spots on the patch and around the lid. Overall, I think my money would have been better spent on a 2 years supply of genuine Kirby bags. Now that I've seen Jim's idea in action I think I may tinker around and see if I can come up with something better using a root cyclone canister from a Dyson or Hoover. Sometimes keeping it simple as Jim Keeler proudly exclaims is NOT the best way to go, stupid.

Hello jhannah:

Thanks for the review and comments.  We know now thanks to you in large part how and why Jim Keeler got the price down from $150 to $79.  So much for the outstanding ebay reviews, and choruses of applause for a man who beats to his own drum and owes noone, KIRBY and/or his bagless converter customers, anything in the process. 

Carmine D.

Update, my super glue didn't hold the patch and it fell out again. I'm going to try PVC pipe glue and if that doesn't work then I'm going to give up. Jim Keeler got me good on this scam.....

Hi jhannah, Hmm . . . another bright idea for the "Don't Buy" list. Sorry to hear about the bad experience but somebody had to test it and, rest assured, we applaud you. The whole idea is tantamount to someone making a disposable kit for a Rainbow -- something that was never intended. Better to seek out a good bagless machine in the first place. Is the add-on doodad returnable? Kirby's are klutzy, heavy and old-fashioned BUT they are well put together and well thought out as I have to say the G series can clean like the dickens. I've always felt this bagless add-on thingy was totally unnecessary. Both versions of it lend nothing to making the cleaner easily mobile in tight surrounds. Best Venson

Venson wrote:

I don't think I can return it. I'm not really all that upset because I didn't expect much from this thing to begin with. I really like my Kirby bag and all. I know it's not the most maneuverable or agile machine but as you say it cleans like the dickens and it's built to last. This conversion was just a toy for me to play with and I think I'll explore using the root cyclone canister of a Dyson or Hoover just to see if I can beat Jim Keeler at his own game. Honestly I don't really like a bagless. They're just messy when you dump the dirt out. A bag is far easier to work with if you ask me. Just something to pass the time......

jhannah wrote:

I hear this more and more from bagless customers.  The bagless vacuum pitch is superior to the product.  With time and experience, vacuum customers learned what vacuum pros knew and told them all along: Bags are beautiful.

Carmine D.