Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

My Niece has just taken a job selling Rainbow vacuums door-to-door.  She is currently on a crew and observing, but wants to do a demo for me this Saturday.  She knows that she is coming into a "Kirby Home" and wants to experience a difficult customer.

I have already warned her that in this economy I pitty her trying to sell a niche vacuum with a price tag of $2,800; and with my aging washing machine about to need replaced even if I were interested,  there is no way on God's green earth I will buy from her.

She is fine with that, but wants me to help her out, so I turn to my experts for help.  I saw a Rainbow demo--OK--30 years ago.  What are the new machines like?  I know my Kirby has changed since then, I have a paper bag now.  Do they, Rainbow,  still push the clean air over cleaning abilities?  I just want to know what to expect with the new machine.  I am supposed to be difficult, which I will be, but want to be somewhat prepared.  Her trainer will be with her, and he is going to help her overcome my objections so she can learn to sell.

MOLE--  I need your help

Carmine--Come on man, I don't want to have to give this girl gas money.

Mole has the money to finance the vacuum for you.

Carmine will likely tell you to put nitrogen in her tires and increase her gas mileage by 25%.

Just wrote:
My oh my!!!

I give your niece a thumbs up for trying succeed.  Sounds like a go getter.  Ambition is a wonderful thing especially in the young.  It's also great that despite all our boohooing about the state of things she's determined to get of her duff and forge ahead.  You know her best, maybe you can think on some lines of work that she already has skills for or would be good at.

Realistically, I agree that she may have a bit of a time HONESTLY selling a Rainbow to anyone. I think selling a vacuum that expensive is as easy as selling the Brooklyn Bridge.  Salesman may have gotten away with it when credit was more easily accessible but things have changed a whole lot.

 The Rainbow, as I always state, is a great display of science of the coolest kind but its actual performance and maintenance requirements are turn-off to many and in no way merit the cash expenditure.  To the best of my knowledge Rainbow is still pitching air quality first. Consumer Reports still rates rates Rainbow with low scores regarding cleaning performance.

This is not all just talk on my part.  I have owned and used Rainbows and Rexairs.  To a gadget freak like myself they're fun -- for a while. First, it is not a vacuum cleaner that you can pull out of the closet and go.  It has to be filled with and assembled.  Next -- to keep one operating well for the long run you must make frequent water changes during long or especially dirty cleaning bouts and must  also keep it spic and span by washing out the waterpan after each use and storing your machine per the manufacturers suggestion.  Come to think of it, these days at least, I'd only buy one to punish my maid with if I had one.

Another point is that there are always a lot of nearly new Rainbows all over eBay and anyone with half a mind can have one in near pristine condition there anywhere from maybe  $300 to $800.  If the trainer really tries too hard or becomes a god awful bore before you can get around to a polite, "No thank you" -- tell him or her to try peeing on someone else to see if they can convince them that it's only raining.

Anyway . . . I hope she finds a rewarding job whatever it is.

Venson

Ahh the machine of tomorrow today,been using that same line for 50 years now, Does water really filter the air? Do they still have the 85 page user manual or the 2 hour vidieo like Kirby, Tell her after she runs out of friends and reletives she will be looking for a real job, does she like living out of a duffle bag?. Tell her i said she will catch on to whats really happening in about 3 or 4 friendly demos, How big of a carrot did her distributor dangle in front of her? Is she going to become rich beyond her wildest dreams?

Does she like working putting on DEMOS for 14 hours a day. Did her boss graduate to a double wide or is he still living in a cardboard box? If you buy a vacuum cleaner for more than 599.00 i will hunt you down and Bi**h slap you for being DUMB.

Glad to help.

sincerly

MOLE

Hello Just:

You're a good man and Uncle. I am the easiest person in the world to sell.  And even worst with family members.  My feeling is if you are going to get taken, it might as well be from a family member.  I'd let her do the demo.  It is a good learning experience for her.  I'm sure you will be kind and charitable.  When she's done with the demo, ask her what's the best and final price you can get it for.  She'll consult with her mentor and give it to you.  I suspect about $1700 will be the price.  Buy it!  Chalk it up to assisting a family member in a time of difficulty. 

If you say no to your niece now, you will undoubtedly short circuit her future sales career.  I don't think you want to have that on your conscience for the rest of your life.  When defeat is inevitable, accept it graciously.

As a Kirby fan, I have no doubt you will find owning and using the Rainbow a fun and rewarding experience.  And the family will talk about it for generations to come. 

Carmine D.

Thanks everyone,

I have warned her about selling, especially in these times.  There are currently 17,000 aircraft workers out of a job here in my city so it will be harder to sell than ever.  A friend of mine in the car business said it is so bad that they are sending brand new cars to the auction just to move them off their lots. 

I am going to let her demo for the experience, but she knows it will be a no sale.  She may think I'm a pushover, but my checking account says I have been pushed to the limit.

Mole--I had forgotten the Machine of Tomorrow, Today slogan.  I have a Rainbow in my basement dating from about 1974, I think I gave $150 for it used.  If I wanted a newer one I think I would try the newspaper, Craig's List, or Ebay first.   The carrot?  She gets $30 per demo for the first two weeks of training, then she is strictly commission where she will make--get this $200 per machine (crooks). 

Carmine, I think that's why they have them push to family and friends; because it's harder for them to say no.  They just need to push to family that has money and a washer that isn't teetering on the edge death.  

I take it that they are still using the light show with dogs and ponies.  It will be fun to watch. 

No doubt family and friends first.  But I hear that's how the feud between the Hatfields and McCoys started.

BTW, a friend who married about the time of your Rainbow, bought a new one shortly after he married.  He and his wife divorced after a few years, but he brags that he still owns/uses the Rainbow which outlasted his wife/marriage and is still going strong. 

Carmine D.

I doubt that it will be fun to watch.  Rainbow will be very stingy about giving away the $30 per demo without a sale.  If you don't buy, I suspect the sales manager and your niece will have an unpleasant conversation.  I suspect the sales manager will give you the hard sell as well.   The sales manager gets a big piece of the pie if you are converted to a buyer.  I hope I'm wrong...





Just wrote:

Severus wrote:

I agree with you Severus.  Here's my best guess:  Assuming the Rainbow price is $1700 to Just and $200 goes to Just's Niece, this leaves $1500 profit to divy up.  The Rainbow costs IMHO about $700 [product cost plus overhead added] to the branch sales office.  The branch manager and sales manager will split the $800 [$1500-$700] at $400 each and/or some variation on 50/50 depending on the business arrangement between the branch and sales manager.  Just my best "best guess" on the dollars and numbers.  I'm sure if Just's Niece knew this information, she may feel differently about demoing and selling friends and family.  But, as the good college Professor told the marketing class many years ago, there is money to be made in sales.

If Just wants to be hard nosed like the sales manager will no doubt be, he would ask all the parties in the transaction chain [after the Branch office cost] to lop off 50 percent of their take: Niece gives back $100 on the price and the Branch/Sales Managers give back $400 on the price.  That brings the final Rainbow price to $1200, if all are willing.  Just has to be so inclined at that price, to help out his struggling Niece, and take the Rainbow water plunge too!  If the parties are unwilling, Just declines the sale at the price offered and says he wanted to buy, but they could not make the deal attractive enough for him.  No offense to his Niece and no umbrage taken by any.  

Carmine D.

Carmine,

You either have great confidence in my nieces selling abilities, or my lack of resistance.  She is doing the demo to get the $30.  There will be no sale at my house. 

I agree for the not $1,700 asking price but $2,800 the machine may have cost them $350 to build.   When Carl and Jean had the old Air-Way vacuum store on Douglas here in town, this would have been 1981 or so; he told me then that the $598 Kirby Tradition cost about $125 dealer cost and he figured that at 100% markup from the factory.  Each middle man doubled the price.  Factory+Distributor+Dealer=$598.   

I once had a salesman, Fairfax, tell me.  "You obviously cared about getting rid of the dirt, that's why you bought the Kirby."

"You are absolutely correct" I said "That's why I'm keeping the Kirby too"    NO SALE!!

 And, And, And besides. Like Mole always says "for the price they are asking for this machine, I could have a Central Vac installed."

Hello Everyone!

Carmine will remember me ( I hope!) from the old and now defunct vacweb forum.

Despite my nearly becoming a Kirby distributor three times, and being the local branch manager for Electrolux the last four years it was an American vacuum company, the vacuum I have owned and used for the last 16 yrs is a Rainbow D4. I have replaced the hose once, the brush roll four times, (every three years) and the belt once a year. The darn thing works. It just works like nothing else I have ever tried. Dog hair, dirt, whatever, it just keeps working. It is most definitely NOT a lazy man or woman's machine. I avoid the separator cleaning issue by having three spares, so I slap a clean one on when I am finished, and place the used one in the top rack of the dishwasher. I have removed many many pounds of dirt from my home. The water is now just cloudy after vacuuming the entire house, and has been for years. Just for oneriness I let aKirby salesman in kept mum about my prior experience and vac knowledge. He called his boss to tell him I was not buying because I had no dirt. That poor kid got reamed (I could hear his boss yelling at him) He old him he was quitting and calling someone to pick him up, and he could get his POS machine himself

Hello Just:

Selling has become more sophisticated than back in the day.  What do you say/do when your dear Niece says to you: Uncle Just,  you know you can save over $1000 a year by forgoing that daily cup of coffee at your favorite haunt each day and brewing it at home! 

Hi Trebor:  Ah the good ole days!  Glad to hear from you and about you.  Be well.

Carmine D.

Well my Niece came over this weekend.  She made a few mistakes, or at least what I would call mistakes in the selling game.  First she was 26 hours late for her appointment.  She was supposed to be here on Saturday at 2:00, she finally arrived on Sunday at 4:00 with boyfriend and baby.  I won't fault the onlookers because she was family.

As for the machine, and I hope I don't insult anyone.  I was very underwhelmed with what Rainbow has become.  I have an very old D2 model that is metal and built like a brick outhouse.  this thing was plastic.  The body was plastic, the tools were plastic, even the seperator is now plastic.  It was quieter than my older Rainbow and like the poster above she couldn't pull any dirt. 

First she did the bright light and scrubbed it across my carpeting--No dust.

Then she had me get my current machine, a Kirby Ultimate G and turn it on.  She shined the bright light on the bag--No dust.

Then she put a black cloth in the hose of the Rainbow and scrubbed around on the carpet--It didn't clog.  She thought she had torn the cloth so she went to change it she hadn't there was just no dirt.  So she scrubbed around on the couch--ditto.  Then she movd out the couch and cleaned behind it--no dirt.  So she put on the powerhead and vacuumed the entire living room paying close attention to make several passes by the door--she got a little fluff all in all about the size of a quarter.

She called her boss and told him she was finished and I wasn't paying $2,596 for this machine even knowing if I gave them 10 of my friends names I would get the Rainmate for free.  Then he offered to take $400 off for my old Rainbow.  No deal

I told my niece that they needed to provide her a little more training on the machine itself and not just the mechanics of the demo, as she had no knowledge of the seperator which is the heart of the machine.  She didn't know about the digital brushless motor, and she didn't know about the post filter.  I was invited to an open house where I could "earn" my own rainbow on Monday--I didn't go.

So you are Aunt Just, not uncle Just?

Carmine D.

No, it's Uncle.

Just wrote:

Thanks Just, it's all too funny except for the $2,596.00 price tag.  I don't think anyone except lottery winners will be buying new Rainbows this year.

Best,

Venson

PS -- Maybe you could pull in some cash from Rainbow by suggesting they let you train the trainees.

Thank you, Just, for proving my point (s)

Proper usage and maintenance of any vacuum is paramount,

Given those two factors, it possible to maintain a home in high state of cleanliness with virtually any vacuum.

Once the dirt is removed, filtration becomes less of an issue.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

The price tag for new RAINBOWS is great for RAINBOW rebuilts and small vacuum cleaner store owners and operators. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

I agree.  However, possible buyers need to be aware of what to look for as far as a clean machine goes.  Have the HEPA on the E series machine removed and eyeball it and the area it attaches to the cleaner at for signs of dirt.  Remove the separator also and check the "spider" and as far beyond as you can see for collected dust or grime. Check the clampps that hold the motor unit onto the water pan for sturdiness.  Have the machine turned on -- no water nescessary for this short test -- and listen for motor sound and any evidence of odd odors.  And even then, you can't realy know much unless you have the machine apart.

My local vac shop seems to focus on some few high-end brands and common "disposables.  Though it does do repairs it does not seem to offer many used vacs of any kind at any one given time.  (Possibly because they may not have much of an understanding of older machines.)  Matter of fact, they had a Kirby G3 that they wanted about 700 bucks for maybe ten years back and it sat and sat in hte window for several years before it disappeared.

In any event, many better, more solid used vacs like Kirby, Royal, all-metal Luxes and so on should prove to be just what the doctor ordered for those looking for something to last a while and I hope I see local shops start carrying more of them.  However, as MOLE mentioned in another post people in general don't have much of an idea of what they're buying -- just what it basically is.

Best,

Venson

Excellent points Venson and also the all important one year/more warranty on the vacuum and key components.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Thanks!  I made special mention of all that stuff because there are sellers who may depend on tne Rainbow name and minimum maintance to do the selling.  From the other side of the coin,  There are folks quick to assume that a reptutable name also means or guarantees good product.

Believe it or not, I see a lot of junk on eBay that looks exactly like -- photographed junk.  Many sellers nonetheless attempt to imply that the item is wonderful because it's such-and-such model of such-and-such brand.

Venson

Question. Sorry to revamp this old post. This is about the Rainbow e2 power nozzel. I saw on Ebay where someone is selling a re-conditioned Rainbow but it comes with a Wessel Werks (spelling) power nozzel. In your experts opinion, are these better than the PN that Rainbow makes? I wasn't aware that another PN would fit a Rainbow.

<BR> mark40511 wrote:
If its the current top Wessel Werks nozzle (black with headlight) it may not be a bad deal. This particular PN is being employed as standard equipment on many power-team canisters from all brands and price ranges. It saves the manufacturers from needing to be original, but it does do well. Lindhaus PNs are also high in the running.

There's an opinion split -- owners versus the publication -- but Consumer Reports has never given Rainbow's it's tested with their own PNs spectacular scores for carpet cleaning.

Just about any canister that has standard wands and an electrified hose that accepts the usual small two-prong PN plug may allow for attachment swapping. Doing the like is certainly not new or unusual. I believe our moderator has even refitted a Filter Queen with a more satisfactory PN.

Eureka/Eureka clone power nozzles, at one point in time, were all over the market. Early Rainbows employing power nozzles used them as did brands like Viking and many central vacuum systems as part of high-end attachment kits.

I have a leaning toward canister vacuums but all aren't my idea of perfect. Our member MOLE has recently stated the most important thing is what happens on the floor and it's true. A switch to a more efficient power nozzle can make a machine you may not have been impressed with suddenly look like it's got real possibilities -- saving you a trip to stores for a new one.

The best nozzles for switching are Kenmore/Panasonic (those which have a simple button lock fitting), the older style Eureka PNs plus the better Wessel Werks and Lindhaus. Needless to say, looking around for a used one instead of new can't hurt since the price on new PNs may make it more sensible just to go out and buy a whole new vacuum.<BR><BR>Venson <BR><BR>

Venson

Thanks. The Rainbow E2 has EXCELLENT suction/airflow but when I use the E PN I'm not so sure it's that great. It looks pretty but I can tell when vacuuming with the Kenmore PN  I hear the airflow/suction from the PN much better than the Rainbow PN. It seems I've read where someone stated they didn't like the Rainbow PN because it choked off airflow (as he put it) and I'm wondering this myself. Perhaps this is why Rainbow PN's don't work that great for bear floor as opposed to other PN"s. I'm betting that if I use a better PN on the Rainbow that it would be much better but not sure which will fit it and how much I should be paying for one.

mark40511 wrote:
Hi Mark,

One of the problems with the Rainbow PN -- I think -- is the brush strip configuration. There's just one nearly straight strip of bristles on each side of the brushroll and actual brush area is less than what you see on brushrolls with brush strips using chevron or auger patterns. There are exceptions in the PNs that used brush strips and beaters bars but I think the more action you have going on per each revolution of a brushroll is a good thing.

Best,

Venson