Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi,

I am a Dyson guy so I’ll recomend Dyson any day but not every product (I dislike some).  I know users who love their Dyson DC18 “Slim’s”.  Super maneuverable, skinny, lightweight (lighter than full-sized).  They are discontinued and being discounted too (I’ve seen em selling from $250 and up).  5 yr. warrantee.  No extra costs (no bags, filters, belts).  This vacuum sold very well and revolutionized the industry, other manufacturers are trying to copy it but cannot due to Dyson’s patents (maneuver related).

Video here of Sir James beating up one of his vacuums:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/06/25/video-james-dyson-runs-his-own-durability-test-on-a-dc24/  ... this vac is great, but it may get your hair wound on the brush roller (should be fast n easy to clean though).  Requires monthly filter cleaning (rinsing under tap water).

The Bissell Healthy Home is cyclonic too.  But Mark Bissell’s business model is...   sell cheaper only to have the consumer pay more later - Bissell recommends the HEPA filter being replaced ($25) every 6 months.  There is no/little protection (pre-filter) to the motor, only a piece of foam which needs recomended cleaning monthly.  It’s heavy, large and the shroud gets clogged (hair and lint must be pulled/cleaned from the plastic screen inside the clear bin).

DIB

P.S.  Just so you’re aware - this is a forum where you will hear strongly contested positions from the bag guys vs. [Dyson] cyclonic guys.

Hello ainstalshia:

If you are wedded to a bagless upright, dyson is probably the best brand on the market.  Tho you will have work in store with daily bin dumping, regular filter cleaning, and regular de-wrapping hair on the brushbar.

As DIB mentioned, shop for the best prices and the best dyson models.  Some are better than others especially in terms of brush design and dirt bin capacity. 

Most retailers can't advertise actual dyson sale and discounted prices.  Lower dyson prices are available in the big box retail stores.  Many of the discontinued dyson models come with free shipping if bought on the internet. 

WRT to military moving and relocations, dysons are ABS plastic just like all the big box store vacuum brands/models.  Subject to the same breaks, cracks, nicks and dings as the $50 big box retail store brands.  As good if not better vacuum performance than dyson can be had from many of the much less expensive big box store brands.   

Carmine D. 

ainstalshia wrote:
Hi,

Though it is beyond your planned price, you may want to consider a Sebo X series upright.  Why?  Because you will never escape having to deal with cut away long hair BUT the Sebo brush roll does slide out of the cleaner for maintenance and or replacement.   See the following link --- http://www.sebo-vacuums.com/frameset.htm?dir=Products

Please note that this cleaner uses disposable bags and you should inquire what replacement costs are for not only bags but filters.

Hope that helps and have a good holiday.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
Correction: Dyson's are made from ABS and Polycarbonate, for added impact resistance.

As I said, you’ll here lots of banter/differences on this forum...  

True the cheap vacs use ABS as do the best in business, it's all about engineering and quailty.

Consumer Reports (2007?) rated the Dyson DC17 #2 behind the mostly all metal $1,200 (or so) Kirby and it was made using ABS (first in plastic, if you will).  Dyson’s use Polycarbonate too (very strong).
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-polycarbonate.htm

Here are some sites and video of Dyson’s being tested and deliberately mistreated.
http://www.dyson.co.uk/insidedyson/#dc24 (click on video)
http://www.dyson.co.uk/testing/
http://www.dyson.co.uk/insidedyson/#testingfacilities


DIB

M00seUK wrote:

Technically: "high impact ABS thermoplastic and polypropylene."  A $50 Dirt Devil or $500 dyson, it's all the same.

Carmine D.

I think I will have to second the Sebo recommendation.  For a vacuum that takes a lot of use, and moving the Sebo is practically indestructible.  The entire machine is certified to filter to HEPA standards, the hose is very easy to use, and as was mentioned already, removing hair from the brush is very easy to remove and clean.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Dysons crack, break, nick, and ding just like all the others on the market that are many dollars cheaper.  Technical instructions related to dyson make it a special point to caution about the use of care in disassembly and assembly lest the plastic components will break. 

Carmine D.

 

I also forgot to mention about the bags and filters.  The bags will last a long time, usually about a month each (they really do pack the dirt in well), and the filters are recommended to be changed "when discolored", meaning turning tan from the dirt.  This can be anywhere from a year to a year and a half.  The overall maintenance cost on the Sebo will actually be less than continually replacing those messy filters on the Hoover you have now.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Not quite DIB, you're a tad bit confused.  The Kirby Sentria was rated in the 4th and 5th spots in 2008 while dyson's DC17 was in the 7th and 9th places.  The other dyson models were rated and ranked in the middle of the field of all others. 

I believe you meant to quote reliability data which is not model specific, only brand.  Kirby is the best brand for reliability and has been for many years by Consumer Reports.  Dyson ranked second.  But, you have to remember that this was the very first time Consumer Reports gathered enough survey data to include dyson.  Consumer Reports makes alot of caveats about its reliability data.  For example, new brands, with less time and models in use among the consumers surveyed, tend to score better due to the inherent risks of the limited amount of the survey data associated with new brands.  CR advises readers that the reliability data is more meaningful when reviewed over time for consistency. 

Which?, a counterpart to CR in Europe, rated dyson vacuums as the most unreliable vacuum brand, both canisters [cylinders] and uprights for 7 of 8 consecutive years.  It was not until recently that dyson was able to get out from under all the other brands for the worse in reliability.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
The $50 DD razor thin margins account for much failures. - You get what you pay for.          DIB

CarmineD wrote:
Not so fast.  Rating a vacuum based on assembly?

Dyson can use melted down Jujubes for all I care.  As long as the vac performs as advertised or more.

DIB

Hello DIB:

It is what it is:  A substance that breaks, cracks, nicks and dings.  But lightweight!  The notion that a higher price guarantees better quality is naive.  Why?  Does paying $700 for a dyson DC15 ball make it less likely to have broken hinges and cracked bins than paying $300 for a DC15 ball?  Did the $700 buyer get more than the $300 buyer? Of course not.  That's why you purchased yours for $300 and not $700. 

Carmine D.

Over the past 40 years I have owned numerous vacuums.  The first were canisters.  In my non professional opinion they were superior to uprights when I first started buying vacuums.  My electrolux purchased in 1973 was an excllent vacuum.  Next I purchased a Rainbow and gave the Electrolux to my daughter.  I got tired of cleaning the Rainbow after each use and after a few years I bought a Hoover WT self propelled (upright).  I never felt that it did a thorough job of cleaning so I gifted it and bought a Dyson DC07.  I then got sort of interested in vacuums and bought a Hoover Fusion.  I also inherited a Hoover bagless that was pure junk.  The screen filter clogged after a few minutes use and rendered the vacuum almost useless.  The screen and the pleated filter were very very difficult to clean.  I gave it away.  I sold the DC07 and the Fusion and bought a Royal Eminance.  Less than a year after buying the Royal I bought a Kirby Sentria.  I now own the Kirby, Royal and Rainbow.  I have bought and returned numerous vacuums that failed my expectations for various reasons.  The most dissapointing for performance was the Oreck XL21.  It was not much better than a broom.

There is no perfect vacum in my experience.  However, the DC07 remains the best that I have used.  The brush never gathered more hair or strings than my Kirby or Royal.  It removed sock lint, string or other solid debris with one pass (hard surface or carpet).  I never had another upright that would do this.  I only washed the filter twice in three years.  The hose is somewhat inconvenient to use if you do not remove the tube that is inside it.  It never clogged.  Of course I only used in the home and never vacuumed leaves or mud with it so no need to clog.

I plan to sell the Kirby and the Royal after the first of the year.  My next planned purchase is the Hoover Whisper, currently less than $100 at local Wal Marts.  No way will I sell the Rainbow as I have used it numerous times for vacuuming water and occasionally as a shop vac.

If you do not have a lot of hard floor surfaces the Eureka Boss does an excellent job of vacuuming.  The exhaust blows dirt away from the vacuum on hard surfaces. 

An inexpensive ($65) bagless is the Bissell Power Force Turbo.  It has as much suction as any vacuum I have used.  The draw back for me is it has no off switch for the brush.

Dyson looks to be a high grade plastic.  Remember that metal will dent or break also.  If any of the plastic breaks on the Dyson I will bet that it is user neglect.

I have probably rambled and given a lot of info that you did not need, however I hope that my experiences will help with your decision.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Making a point DIB that dyson itself is so worried about damage to the plastic caused during repairs that dyson cautions its own authorized dealers IN WRITING to use extra care.

A significant case in point recently where 39 UK dyson buyers/users and several vacuum makers prevailed against dyson with the ASA in the UK to force dyson to cease from making false and exaggerated product claims.  And others here in the USA who bought $500 plus dysons under the auspices that their dysons would never clog and lose suction.  Only to learn that dysons did both, and they  returned them to the retailers for refunds/credits. 

IMHO the primary reason dyson makes its 5 year limited warranty on its later DC24 and 25 models contingent on the requirement for users to perform frequent filter cleaning is due to clogging and suction loss with the earlier models.  Many buyers were lulled [read: duped] by the advertised dyson claims into believing it was not necessary to clean filters save once a year.  And based on this, they paid high prices for the convenience of not having to do so. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HARDSELL:

I didn't know where to start.  You provide so much for rebuttal.  I excerpted just a few of the comments that you've made many times here before for a response. 

You have said on numerous occasions that the ORECK spread the dirt/dust on barefloors as did the EUREKA BOSS, which you said above again.  I disagree with you with every ounce of being in me.  You are full of the proverbial scatalogical stink.  Both models are excellent as barefloor cleaners.  Both are consistently rated as excellent barefloor cleaners by Consumer Reports.  The fault kind sir with the performance is with the user. 

"Dyson looks to be a high grade plastic."  Tell me, please, exactly what does high grade plastic look like as opposed to low grade?  I'm interested to know and I'm sure others are too. 

Metal breaks?  A 20 pound sledge hammer and several direct hits with enough force doesn't count as breakage in the normal course of usage.  Nor does dropping from a 12 story building.

You'd bet that "any' of the plastic breaks on dysons are user neglect!!  Wow!  You have keen eyes for judging the grades of plastics AND expert personal knowledge on all dyson users too.  Has to be user neglect IN ALL CASES.  Never dyson!   Sounds like you're saying ALL dysons are perfect vacuums whose only faults are a result of neglectful users.  I'm smelling that unfragrant aroma again. 

The ORECK brand which you love so much to mock [based on a single free in home trial of 30 days] warranties the plastic vacuum housings on all its models for 10-20 years.  What is dyson's? 

ORECK earns and maintains the highest seal of approval/recommendation by the Carpet and Rug institute of America for all its models for ALL CARPET brands and styles.  How about dyson?

Carmine D.

ainstalshia wrote:

Hello ainstalshia:

This prerequisite reminds me of a true story that I'll share with you and the readers here.  In the 50's an Air Force military family bought a new Kirby upright with all the attachments for about $250.  In the course of a 30 plus year career, they moved back and forth from duty stations around the world to the USA, always shipping the Kirby.  After retirement, in the early 90's, the couple decided it was time to repair/buy another vacuum.  They remembered the Kirby factory rebuild service agreement and decided to use it.  They shipped the Kirby back to Cleveland Ohio and asked to exercise the agreement at the price guaranteed at time of purchase: $12.50.

After a few weeks, Kirby shipped the rebuilt 30 plus year old Kirby back to the owners in near brand new condition.  The last I talked with the Kirby owners was in 2005.  Their Kirby was still going strong.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You are quick to recommend the ultra expensive vacs sold at independents and say that they last 20 or more years.  Yet you use disposable $50 vacs.  What gives?

Hello HARDSELL:

I am a vacuum man: All makes and models from the least to the most expensive.  Recall in my first post on this thread, I recommended a dyson if bagless is a prerequisite.

BTW, off topic of vacuums for a brief moment:  How's toyota doing lately?  A loss after 70 years?  From a $25 billion profit last year to a several billion loss this!  Let me finally get this out of my craw after being stuck there awhile:  I told you so!  Months ago and even as early as a year ago!

Merry Christmas my friend!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Don't choke Carmine.  All auto makers are suffering.  At least Toyota is not depending on taxpayers to bail them out of financial woes because of top management greed.

Hello HARDSELL:

My, my  friend how you have changed your tune.  Going back to 2006 when you were singing the praises of toyota, I shot you/it down with BMW.  BTW, how's BWM doing? 

You, like others including toyota, bought into the myth that the Japanese giant had developed a water tight strategy that would yield profits through thick and thin, making it the subject of managerial guides like the 2004 book: "The Toyata Way."   You scoffed when I said more than one year ago that the USA and global economies are on the brink of the precipice and will take toyota and others down with it!  I believe at the time your posts mocked that I was Mr. doom and gloom. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

If you recall you had to retract your positive statements about BMW.  Do you recall that I directed you to the sites showing the poor quality of BMW?

What are you gloating about.  BMW sales in the US were down 26.8% in November. Of course this is better than the 29.5 % drop in September.

Any fool can predict a drop in auto sales during the worst economy in years. 

BTW, nice diversion from vacuums.  I see you can still do the pay toilet shuffle.

I should have mentioned that Honda sales were down over 30%.  Do I need to tell you how the big 3 US manufacturers are doing?

Bad memory again, my good friend!  After our 2006 exchanges, as I recall BMW [my pick] tied toyota [your pick] by both the Wall Street Journal and Consumer Reports for the best in luxury sedan.!  Forgot??

BMW is still profitable!!

Merry Christmas, my good friend.  Go new car shopping.  You can get a good deal on a new discounted toyota!!

Carmine D.

After pondering your situation for a while,You need a PRO TEAM xp1500,can be bought off E-BAY in the low 300 range.Trust me you wont find a better vacuum cleaner out there at any price.I strongly suggest you check it out,Its built so well and has so many  features that no one else has,you will have it for at least 25 years.This is the best kept secret in the vacuum industry.

MOLE

mole wrote:

MOLE,  I thought you were talking about a transmission or shifter.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. 

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, there is no luxury car with the Toyota name plate.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU MY FRIEND.  STAY OUT OF THE EGG NOG.  YOUR MIND IS FOGGY ENOUGH.

HARDSELL wrote:
Hi H.S. happy holidays,
Isnt the toyota avalon  considered their luxury flagship model.It has a lot of LEXUS TO IT???

MOLE

mole wrote:

I have known Avalon owners who said they wished they had bought the Camry.  Biggest complaint was interior noise.

Luxury is subjective.  Lexus has an exceptionally smooth ride and an ultra quiet interior.  That is luxury to me.  Others consider a car to be luxurious simply because it is expensive.  Some even go so far as to think luxury is having nitrogen in your tires.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HARDSELL:

You're right. What was I thinking?  It's just an overpriced camry with some extra doo dads and cup holders.  BMW won the luxury class straight out!

Hope Santa is good to you.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

Did you mean Pro-Team XL21?  ORECK upright and compact canister for $299? 

Buon natale, mi'amico. 

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hey HS:

Some posters here consider a vacuum to be quality made simply because it is expensive.  I say, and you do to [albeit after MOLE and I drilled it into you for the last 3 years], it's just overpriced, overhawked and overhyped.  Like toyota's luxury brand name!

I opine since nitrogen provides a smoother quieter ride, you include yourself in the latter category!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine.

No i did not mean the oreck XL21,proteam is a vacuum company that sells commercial uprights and back packs sold at janitorial supply houses,This machine is the same as the sanitaire 6600,the electrolux commercial upright,Its the best bang for the buck vacuum out there,and its half the retail price of the latter mentioned machines.Its the best secret in the vacuum business,well up to now.98% of the proteams parts interchange with the aerus/electrolux commercial upright,remember the prolux ?

Just so you know with all the infighting between the patents and using logos this product allmost never made it to the industry.Check out PULLMAN-HOLT also they have a variation of this machine also.....

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

I was being facetious!  In his recent advertisments, Dave refers to the ORECK upright/canister duo as the Pro Team!  Wonder where he got the idea for it!

Pax tecum.

Carmine D.

PS:  I remember the ProLux upright!  The ProTeam [ProLux] earns the Carpet and  Rug Institute of Approval/Recommendation.  Canisters, backpack vacuums and uprights.

http://www.pro-team.com/

http://www.carpet-rug.org/commercial-customers/cleaning-and-maintenance/seal-of-approval-products/soa-gl-vacuum-list.cfm?product_type=0&product_usage=0&manuf_id=0

Hi Carmine,
Does ORECK still feel that his non core business,such as irons,air cleaners,floor machines,etc, becoming a drag on company profits? With the economic situation being as it is maybe its time for a little re thinking of the market, Lets face the facts in order to save the company its time to lean things out a little,

The scamble is on, There are posters here that would love to see them fold,Just like hoover did.

MOLE

Hi MOLE:

I agree there are some who would love to see ORECK fade away.  These additional ORECK floorcare venues, even Air Purifiers, came along with the good times.  In hard times, they drain and divert resources from the core ORECK lightweight upright operations and business.  I would not be surprised at all if some of the floorcare venues are sold off.  To retrench by reducing expenses and accumulating much needed cash.

BTW an aside, I mentioned that the new casino that just opened was full of rumors of declaring bankruptcy even before the grand opening last month.  I talked with one of the Corporate muckety mucks and specifically asked.  She laughed at the question and said no way.  I reminded her of the CFO's answers to interviews in September with the Bank heads/debt holders.  She still denied the rumors.  But wasn't laughing as hard.  I opined the spring of 2009 after a couple of quarters of missed payments.  This past week the casino owners and management asked for an extension on a line of credit.  [Can't meet the $450 MILLION debt financing].  This is surely a precursor of bankruptcy filing and reorganization.  I suspect the Corporate manager is/will be fired/laid off soon.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine, i find your post very interesting about the casino, in your opinion are they part of the problem or part of the solution, Will they be going to uncle sam for a no questions asked like wall street for a BAILOUT.

How many jobs are at stake?

Will they take the corporate jets to D.C. or go by greyhound?

Should they just go belly up  or be sold off for 10 cents on the dollar.

Does vegas have unemployment benefits.


Is paulson a shareholder??????????

MOLE

mole wrote:
Hi MOLE,

Just throwing this in to be helpful.  http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=9039777

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=9554773

Whoa!  Carmine, it's a good thing you've retired -- I think.

Venson

Hi MOLE:

Good questions and I'm not prepared to answer all now but I'll take a shot:

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

Good articles.  Nevada has always been on the leading edge of all the good economic indicators in the Country.  So, not surprising, in a turn around, it is hardest hit.  I'm licensed to bartend by the Nevada state authorities.  But have not used the skills yet.  Fortunately, my dear Wife and I also sold everything we had in the markets by August 2006, when I retired.  Even tho the markets were still heading higher, we thought it was time to go.  Bears make money.  Bulls make money.  Pigs get slaughtered.  Whenever you're taking profits, it's a good thing and it was a good decision.

Also on a positive note, monthly social security payouts increase 5.8 percent starting Jan 1.  Helps the cause.  Couple of extra big macs a month. 

Carmine D.

Thanks Carmine,

Great answers you could be right on the MONEY, When do you feel things will turn around?Or should we just get use to this and think that this is just the way its going to be.

Has the GREATER society lost its soul????????

MOLE

mole wrote:
Funny I was going to mention the PULLMAN-HOLT as well (seems to have less problems than the proteam) but it didn't meet the required HEPA filtration. Still it would be my recommendation to meet MOST OF THE POSTERS REQUIREMENTS.

Hi MOLE:

The quick and short answer:  Graphically depicted, the recovery will not be a "V" or even a "U" but an "L."

Unfortunately, homo sapiens have to lose it, then find it again, in order to appreciate and savor its value.

We'll see euphoria in January 2009, after President Obama's inauguration, spike the markets higher.  It will be short-lived.  Reality will set in, people will learn that he does not have all the answers, like FDR didn't, and the markets will go back down for the long count.  Retailer wise, Wal*Mart is the big winner in 2008 and in 2009.  It is the only stock in the Dow 30 that is up this year.  According to the latest survey data, WM, onced frequented by buyers with a annual household income of $40,000, upped their ante in 2008.  Now, the average household income of WM shoppers is $65,000 annually.   Consumers have "traded down" in their retail shopping and WM is the beneficiary.  This latest news is the biggest positive retail surprise of the year.  There are always winners and losers.  WM is the big winner this year in the retail sector.

Similarly, the old Wall Street wisdom, buy and hold is dead.  Doesn't work anymore.  It's buy and sell.  Trader is the name of the game.

Carmine D.