Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

would love to see this but can't. Please post the pic.

The post showed up blank?  It shouldn't have...  I can see it.

The bag is huge.  See thru housing speaks volumes about SEBO's confidence that this machine will pick up/contain dirt in the bag and not elsewhere.  Kudos for a bold and brave approach to design/function.

Carmine D.

Wow!  Que cool!  Was this a store demo of sorts like the clear model Miele produced?

Venson

Venson wrote:
This machine is for public consumption. We still sell more of the Blue models but this one generates lots of interest.

Dusty

They are a regular model, but because there is such little demand for them, they have to be pre-ordered, and usually take forever to get.  I ordered this one last spring.  We mostly sell the white one, and the red Xtra, my boss had no interest in ordering any of these to sell.

Hey Guys:

What's the advantage of scrubbing my 2 HOOVER Tempos, ORECK XL, and HOOVER cann for this SEBO X4 Clear?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
More room in the hall closet?

Venson

Hi Venson:

You know, my dear Wife would buy into that as a valid reason!  Thank you.  She is a tried and true ORECK user/fan.  So the SEBO X4 would be a HARDSELL, no pun intended.

Carmine D.

How much does it cost?

I thought it was promotional purposes only such as homeware shows,appliance shows, nice display showing SEBOS design and functionality.

Reggie can you supply the serial number to us, I want to know if its special production only,Only for sebo dealers that do the numbers.

THANKS

MOLE

Its not a special promotional model at all. Its just a clear version of the regular X4.  Dealers can order as many as they want, and sell them for any reason, even tho they are usually just used for display, they can be ordered and sold for people to use.  This is different from the clear Miele (which I also have) in that the Miele was made of acrylic, making it fragile and letting it yellow badly in the sunlight.  The Sebo is the same plastic, but without the color.

That is one great looking vacuum. 

Carmine D.

I ordered some on my last order so they are in stock 699.00 everywhere

The SEBO X4 Clear Automatic sells for the same price as the color versions.  No premium for the see-thru finish [or more correctly unfinish].  Good looking vacuum. 

Carmine D.

A YouTube demo presumably sanctioned by SEBO on the X4 Automatic, tho not the Clear.  Enjoy the narrator's accent!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxdT4zNZeNE

And another with a more familiar accent and also very well done [Kudos to GoVacuum]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDyvplUuiYY&NR=1

Gotta love that SEBO vacuum!

Carmine D.

Vacuuman wrote:

Thanks Vacuuman,

FOR ''CLEARING'' THAT UP FOR US.......

MOLE

BTW, for clear plastic cases, it's not a good idea to use Ammonia based cleaners (Windex, etc.) as the ammonia will attack the plastic and cause it to yellow and cloud.
This also applies to plastics used to shield many an Automotive headlight.

vacomatic wrote:
Thanks Vacomatic. Windex would have probably been the first thing I'd reach for.

Venson

Actually guys I'd concur on that!
The Sebo X4 Clear is a U.S Market ONLY model; it is not available to buy in Germany, in Europe and we in the UK don't get the chance to buy it either. Aren't you lucky people?!

vacmanuk wrote:
Absolutely not! I still want a Luxe 1 Royal Chrome and can't finagle one with 120 volt AC/DC for love or money. I'd love to see Samsung's Silencio in the States -- no such luck. As well, the Nilfisk Extreme has still not come this way.

http://www.luxinternational.com/products/bright_home/vacuum_cleaner/

Venson

TBH its only been in the last 2 years that Nilfisk have got the finger out and launched a new range of vacuums in UK shops. Before if you wanted a Nilfisk consumers were made to pay through the nose for their metal canisters - I know because I always wanted a Nilfisk of my own having used one at halls of residence, in the days before Henry!

Venson wrote:
Can I ask you why you actually want one of these? From what I can see you'd be better off with a Sebo K series or something.

vacmanuk wrote:
Hi vacmanuk,

I don't personally care much for the Sebo line. Luxe International to my mind may well have put together a better product (Watch out! Fist usually start flying about now.) than our erstwwhile American Electrolux now known as Aerus.

Don't get me wrong as I feel there is no such thing as the be-all end-all vacuum cleaner. So much has to do with personal fit. However, considering how much outsourced/generic stuff we see on the market, anything of possible quality stirs my interest. I am not sure but I think there may be some sort of agreement between Aerus and Luxe International, maker of the Luxe 1, regarding territory.

Venson

Lordy. I had a Sebo K1 Komfort for 5 years, and before that X1 Automatic for 14 years. What do you mean personal fit?

vacmanuk wrote:
Personal fit means an appliance that suits the user both performace-wise and aesthetically. Which is the reason that I never spent money on any number of brands and which is also why there are any number of vacuums that I've owned and liked that I don't imagine many other people would.

We have that right.

Venson

vacmanuk wrote:
Can anyone here give a  logical reason why sebo  other than maybe the felix have not been accepted by the indys like the other euro machines. From what i know about them they make a very good high end upright.

Lets see a sebo x5 and the lindhaus activa series which one do you push, being the moneys the same.

Venson still likes his sunbeam courier

regards

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

SEBO and LINDHAUS are content to be a small [niche] players in the USA with the top tier independents who service affluent geographic areas and regions.  I suspect in part that they don't want to hassle with the high price of transportation costs and flunctuations of the currencies worldwide if they expand worldwide distribution of their vacuum products.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
The bag is not huge.

What you are not seeing because of the grey central bag-door handle and logo trim, is that the paper bag is offset to the right of the central trim (look at the hose entry point, the bag sits directly below this).

On the left side of the cleaner (looking at the photo), the "bag" in this case, is actually the tubular motor-protection microfilter.

You cannot see that there are two separate entities, due to the trim blocking the view.

Trilobite wrote:

Helo Trilobite:

Excellent points and keen obersvation skills.  Thank you for pointing them out.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hello Carmine, you're welcome.

Well the bag is big enough - standard fit 5.5 litre/6 litre capacity which is similar to Miele's S7.
Don't forget guys that although Sebo are in the U.S they also the old X1 Automatic under the Windsor tagm Windsor Sensor models infact. I believe there's a Dart model too, commercial version of the Felix under a different name too.

The great thing about the Sebo design is that the bag doesn't cover the pre-motor filter, so the motor's not having to pull air down through the bag. The filter is at the side, so the suction stays 'stronger for longer.' When you empty the bag, it's solid like a brick, packed right to the top. When you put a new one in, it's amazing how much lighter the cleaner feels!

Model2 wrote:

Model2:

Is your point that a vacuum's motor, not just SEBO, pulls the air through the bag?  Would you mind explaining to me how that works?  I thought the motor pulls up dirt.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Are you asking me to explain the clean-fan (as opposed to the direct-air/dirty-fan) design principle? Or the difference between Sebo's pre-motor filter design (placing the filter's huge surface area beside the bag - see diagram) and the more commonly-seen design, whereby the pre-motor filter is located under the bag?

Model2 wrote:
hi Model2......wouldnt  panasonics optiflow system not produce the same results as the sebos side intake...or riccars tandem air set-up is similar as it has the side intake..diff system i know but same idea...increases of suction from that side intake are how much over the optiflow or any other bottom type? not looking to debate...just curious.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Other brands may well have similar designs; I'm not claiming the Sebo is entirely unique (although I can't think of anything else on sale in the UK with a similar set-up), I was simply making the innocent comment that it's one of the Sebo X-series' strengths that the suction stays relatively constant as the bag fills. That's all! Sebo have been on the mainstream market in the UK since the early 90s. 'Which? Magazine' currently rate them as the most reliable upright brand, and the highest upright brand for customer satisfaction. 'Which?' rate their performance as rather mediocre, which concurs with my own opinion of them. However, I do find that the power stays relatively constant as the bag fills.

I'm not familiar with the Panasonic Optiflow system, so I couldn't comment on that. Could you post a diagram which shows how that works? The core principle of the Sebo system is that the bag doesn't sag over the filter as it fills with dirt, so the motor's not compromised pulling air down through layers of whatever dirt's already in the bag to a filter smothered underneath. If the Panasonic system is similar to that, then the answer's probably yes. The Sebo doesn't offer extra power over other machines, in fact, I feel it's weaker than many. It just stays at a more constant rate as the bag fills, for the reasons I've explained.

Model2 wrote:

Model2:  I didn't mention direct suction dirt path and/or by-pass dirt path cleaning [as is the case with attachment cleaning].  I'm asking how a vacuum motor, SEBO or any other vacuum motor, pulls air through the bag into the motor and at the same time pulls dirt into the bag.  How does that work?  Explain it for me, please.  The diagram you posted is the dirt/air path to the bag not the air path to the motor.  Am I right?  I see no filtered air pulled through the bag and going into the motor.  I see air leaving the bag and going into the dirt path nozzle.  Do you see that too in your diagram?

You posted WRT the SEBO pulling air through the bag by the motor:

Model2 wrote:

Your post and the diagram appear to be contradictory.  The diagram you posted shows no air pulled into the motor from the bag.  Is your point that other vacuums do this [pull air through the bag into the motor], but SEBO doesn't? 

Carmine D. 

Hi Model2,

I'm not as good as the rest of the guys with the image uploading thing yet but attached below is a link to the Panasonic website re the "Optiflow" thing. Actually this is nothing at all new. Bagged American vacs like Electrolux and AirWay had been employing the idea for years and years but not saying a lot about it.

Now defunct Air-Way resembled a tank-type vacuum (a long, cylindrical or rectangular in shape machine pulled around on on wheels or sliders) but was designed to stand vertically when in use. It's metal bag chamber had a cylindrical outer wall with an inner wall of perforated metal. A round filter was at the bottom of the bag chamber and it also had a round perforated cover to keep the bottom of the dispoable bag from sitting directly on it. The whole idea being meant to facilitate airflow from all sides of the dustbag.

Ye old and ancient Electrolux Model XXX by design allowed plenty of room around its permanent bag but with the change of design that came with the Model LX and the self-sealing disposable bag a bag chamber and new look were adopted. From that point on the Electrolux bag chamber was an internal rectangular single wall "cage" with perforations on all sides and at the bottom. This too intended to allow air movement from all freed up parts of the bag as it filled. It appeared to work. However, the idea was abandoned with the coming of the Model 1205. It also had a bag chamber that conformed to the shape of the rectangular bag but instead of perforated metal, it was of molded plastic with deep "ribbing" within its interior to help keep the bag walls from lying completely flush against any of its sides. There was just a single port for air exit.

In regard to either brand, another good point that never got played up was that paper bag breakage was nil.

http://www.panasonic.com/promos/video/vacuum_cleaners/optiflow.html

Venson

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, the principle "Model2" speaks about, is the method used by 'clean air' uprights such as Sebo and cylinder cleaners. I think you are mis-reading the Sebo diagram.

Basically, (and you should know this), the motor expells air from its exhaust, creating a corresponding pressure drop at the motor intake and associated ducting upstream of the motor. This includes the bag chamber.

Since nature abhors a vacuum, air rushes into the bag chamber at great speed, carrying dirt and dust as it comes. Placing a filter-bag at the entry point allows the dust to be captured, but the bag has to be permeable (that is to say, the bag must allow air to pass THROUGH the bag).

If the bag sits directly upon the pre-motor filter, there is a chance that suction will be compromised as the motor will struggle to pull air through the bag which will be filling with dirt and dust. Hence the reason for the vertical tubed pre-motor filter.

With reference to the Sebo diagram, dirt-laden air is sucked up the hose (shown at the rear of the tubular pre-motor filter), into the bag. Filtered air is then sucked towards the adjacent tubular filter, then down into the motor intake, through the (unseen) motor, then expelled to the atmosphere via the micro-filter.

Model2 wrote:
MODEL2....by all means i appriciate your input..and respect your point of view ..ive never had a chance to work on or test a sebo ...riccar is about as hi-end as ive been...panasonic,and a couple bosch cans...in addition to the normal big store brands....so i take in all i can and ask questions.... comments and opinions  are what counts...ive learned some things i didnt know before...and if these forums help me do a better job at repairing one or selling one then im the better for it....besides,its nice to be around people who really enoy what they do..or do what they enoy....i only wish we had some of those awsome vacs they carry over in the UK....id even wire a new outlet in my home for 220vlts....just so i could use and test  them ...and i have no clue as of yet on how to post a diagram of anything ..but im learning.

Trilobite wrote:

Thank you, "Trilobite"; my lack of comprehension of Carmine's question was largely due to my astonishment that such an 'expert' would not familiar with a 'clean-fan' upright design principle...it's been around since the Hoover Dial-A-Matic, after all!!

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson, I'm familiar with the vintage vacs, and once again, I reiterate: I did not say that good air-circulation around the bag was, in the current market or historically, unique to Sebo. I simply made the innocent remark that it was a nice feature included by Sebo's X-series machines (by and large, at least in the UK, uprights generally locate their pre-motor filter under the bag). However, I believe that the specific design of having a tube-shaped filter (more surface area than a flat filter) which stands beside the bag, almost as high as the bag itself, IS unique to Sebo - I've never seen another cleaner which uses this design. It may even be patented by Sebo.

CarmineD wrote:

Model2:  I didn't mention direct suction dirt path and/or by-pass dirt path cleaning [as is the case with attachment cleaning].  I'm asking how a vacuum motor, SEBO or any other vacuum motor, pulls air through the bag into the motor and at the same time pulls dirt into the bag.  How does that work?  Explain it for me, please.  The diagram you posted is the dirt/air path to the bag not the air path to the motor.  Am I right?  I see no filtered air pulled through the bag and going into the motor.  I see air leaving the bag and going into the dirt path nozzle.  Do you see that too in your diagram?

- Trilobite's posted a wonderful, clear explantion above of how the clean-air principle works in a vacuum cleaner. I'm sure since it comes from him, not from me, that you'll be able to understand it. I'm simply floored (no pun intended...) by your question 'I'm asking how a vacuum motor, SEBO or any other vacuum motor, pulls air through the bag into the motor and at the same time pulls dirt into the bag.  How does that work?  Explain it for me, please.' During your 40 years in the business, did you never wonder how the Hoover Dial-A-Matic (the first upright to popularize this design) moved dirt from the floor and in to the bag without it passing through the fan? Carmine, really...how could you NOT know this?! It's an inexcusable lapse in very basic vacuum cleaner knowledge. 

Your post and the diagram appear to be contradictory.  The diagram you posted shows no air pulled into the motor from the bag.  Is your point that other vacuums do this [pull air through the bag into the motor], but SEBO doesn't? 

Carmine D.

- I'm sorry you haven't understood the diagram. You should write to Sebo and ask them to make it clearer - after all, if an 'industry expert with 40 years experience' can't understand it, what hope has the average consumer?!

Please forgive me for not posting the responses as to how the motor sucks air through the bag.  Much too long and I think we've seen them several times already.  If SEBO, and any by-pass dirt path system sucks air through the bag, how does the bag inflate?  If air is sucked through [out] by the motor shouldn't the bag deflate?  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Are you for real, Carmine - this is a serious question? I'm really hoping for your own sake that this is some joke which I don't get because it's not funny...

The bag inflates within the compartment because as the motor is sucking air out of the bag/bag compartment, an equal volume is rushing in (carrying the dirt with it) to take its place - it's a continuous process while the machine is running. However, the bag creates resistance to the airstream (more so as the pores clog with dirt), the air 'pushing' against the walls of the bag as it struggles through - an increase in pressure in the bag. This pressure difference causes the bag to inflate. The pressure dynamic changes constantly as the bag fills with dirt - as the pores clog, the resistance grows to the point where the motor can no longer move a sufficient amount of air through the bag to clean properly. A 'loss of suction', if you will...

Model2 wrote:

Thanks Model2.  You've now added something new into the SEBO dirt by-pass system mix.   You NOW say the SEBO motor is sucking air out of the bag/bag compartment.  Before you said just the bag.  Did the diagram change your mind?  Does the motor suck the air out of the bag and/or out of the bag compartment and/or both?    If it's both, tell me which air is sucked out first: The bag air and/or the bag compartment air?  Or, do you believe the motor sucks out the air in both places simultaneously at the same rate?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Oh dear, Carmine. Writhing around again to cover up the fact you've just - very publically - blown all your "credibility" to shreds! Ka-boom! I'm embarrassed for you.

All I've done is elaborated, at your request, on my original statement (which no one else seems to have had any trouble understanding!). I've explained the concept, Trilobite's explained the concept...if you still can't grasp this very simple idea, go and do some research, rather than demanding that everyone spoon-feed you.

Model2 wrote:

Model2:  I'm not demanding anything.  I'm asking several pertinent questions based on what you posted then reposted.  These are simple and straight forward.  You made a statement that the clear SEBO motor doesn't have to suck air through the bag.  I asked you to explain what you mean by that and how it works.  You posted a nice diagram.  Thank you.  I asked you about the diagram's illustrations of air/dirt flow and your original statement.  You reposted to say that the SEBO motor sucks air through the bag/bag compartment.  Good.  Progress.  Then, I asked you:  What does the clear SEBO motor draw air from first:  The bag and/or the bag compartment, and/or both simultaneously?  If both, then at what rate?  Same, different?  For an expert who understands by-pass dirt path vacuum operations, these questions and answers are basic to their knowledge.  Do you know and/or don't you?  If you do, post here.  If not, say you don't know, and I will post for you. 

Carmine D

Trilobite wrote:

Thank you Trilobite.  My basic question on the clear SEBO, and any vacuum motor, drawing/not drawing air through the bag was to ensure that we were all on the same page.   Model2 is discussing dirt by-path vacuums, like the clear SEBO, and not the original vacuum design and operation using a fan first and bag last operation.  I know the difference  I wanted to make sure all others reading here know too.  Some may/may not be versed in vacuum operations.  The diagram by Model2 and posts by Venson about Lux and Air-Ways and retardturtle1 about RICCAR assist in clarifying Model2's post also.  Thanks to all.

Carmine D.

Model2 wrote:

Just so we understand where we are now, Model2, I posted your original statement which says that the clear SEBO motor, due to the design of the side mount filter, doesn't have to pull air down through the bag.   You revised this statement in a subsequent post to say that the clear SEBO motor draws air from the bag/bag compartment.  I opined probably a result of the diagram you posted and I commented on.  Thank you.  On the surface, these two statements appear to be contradictory.  I'll overlook the discrepancy and presume that you meant to say the clear SEBO motor draws clean air from both the bag and bag compartment [your revised answer].  I posted questions for you to answer about dirt by pass design and operations based on drawing air from both.

Carmine D.