Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Good morning all,

I just came across what appears to be a press release regarding, Fresh Ins packets that contain scented baking soda crystals.  Arm & Hammer already produces a bunch of deodorizing disposable bags plus filters for many brands of vacs.  The claim in regard to Fresh Ins is that the product can be dumped into any vacuum, bagged or bagless, to neutralize pet odor and has twice the dedorizing power of Arm & Hammer's bags.  Per the article, the packets sell for about $2.50 for nine packets. Link is here -- http://www.courant.com/features/home/hc-faqpetfresh.artaug06,0,7643952.story?track=rss

Nice idea but I also liked the company provision for info through its "Jill's Secret Solutions" page -- http://armandhammer.com/default.aspx?ITEMID=4  There are all sorts of tips on how to use just plain old cheap baking soda around the house.

One of Jill's ideas is to go directly to the source and give dogs a deodorizing dry bath, sprinkle it on-brush it out, with baking soda.  I also suggest IF you have a quiet vacuum with hose, try vacuuming Rover.  DO NOT use tools with moving parts like air-powered turbo tools, etc.  DO USE a straight suction upholstery tool or dusting brush with the suction relief open or motor speed reduced and stay away from your animals ears and head. 

Your cat or dog of course has to go for the idea and it should not be forced on them.  However, if you've got an animal that likes a thrill, the feel of cool air pulling through its fur as you give it a going over is quite enjoyable.  I remember that my dog began to fall out on the floor waiting to be done with the bare floor tool just about every time I turned the cleaner on.  This is also helpful in that the fur and dandruff you dislodge goes straight into the vacuum. Regular grooming of any kind may help reduce reduce the amount of shed hair and dander you have to tackle come cleaning day.

Best,

Venson

Venson,

A while back I posted the merits of  baking soda uses around the home.  At least one member refured my claims.  He says that very few households use baking soda.

He seems to believe that more home owners prefer to keep a stock of kapok.

Hi Hardsell,

I can't imagine why anyone except a vacuum salesman would want to keep a supply of kapok but baking soda is another story. 

Before all the hype about the expensive toothpaste version, for years people made a paste of hydrogen peroxide and baking soda and used it to brush their teeth.  Baking soda was often used as a gentle scouring agent in place of harsher cleansers.  Presently, it has been found proved to be effective at dealing with odors in carpeting.  And I don't mean the fancy stuff with all the perfumes added -- just good old baking soda straight out of the box.  Best yet, you can cook with it. What can be better.

Why it's just like good old vinegar -- you can clean your windows or make a salad.

Unfortunately, I don't know how well the use baking soda and other simple and handy household standbys has taken hold these days.  Everyone, old and young, is in a rush to do this or that task and can't seem to believe that you don't always have to rush to the store to buy the miracle cleaner advertised on television to get things done. Despite the seeming urgency, I can't help but wonder if some of the back-in-the-day problem solvers won't grow in interest to younger and less aware out there who are looking to save a little money or possibly be even a little more green-minded.

As an aside, for those of us who like a feeliing of self-sufficiency there's a wonderful cookbook still available called "Better than Store-bought" by Helen Witty.

Best,

Venson

Venson,

I use about one box of baking soda weekly.  My favorite is using in the dishwasher.  Dishes (especially pots and pans) come out sparkling clean.

Yes the vac store owners prefer kapok.  I recommended baking soda for use at an Oreck store to one of our readers.  Carmine went beserk.  Guess he already knew the Oreck couldn't handle the test.

Hello Venson:

I do applaud the home grown uses for baking soda, vinegar, and hydrogen peroxide.   Love those old fashioned household remedies.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Sand doesn't occur naturally in all environments.  Neither does dog hair.  Dust and dirt occur naturally in all environments. 

A reader mentioned that they would be testing new vacs and asked for recommended tests.  I suggested baking soda for testing a vacuums performance on hard surfaces since so many vacuums blow more dust / dirt than they collect .  You became defensive of this test because you know that the test would show the inferiority of Oreck and so many others.  You also know that baking soda would clog the bag very quickly if vacuumed in large quantities.  Only then did I suggest that you try it with your Oreck and report back.  I haven't heard the results.

HS:

I'm so sorry if you inferred that I contradicted you and your recommended test.  That was not my intention at all.  I was referring ONLY to my use of baking soda for a bare floor test, since sand occurs so abundantly and naturally here in the desert. 

BTW, the paper bag in the ORECK is 6 quarts.  This is one of the largest paper bags in the vacuum industry.  I literally vacuum up several pounds of sand with pet hair and household dust/dirt before I replace a bag.  I have not had a single instance of a clogged bag in over a year's worth of daily ORECK usage.  

Do you still think it is practical and necessary for me to do the baking soda test to see if an ORECK bag will/will not clog?  What difference would it make TO ME, if it did?

Hello again Venson:

If Arm and Hammer made bags to fit the ORECK [ORECK doesn't use filters], I would most definitely buy/experiment with the bag product.  I use the cheapest ORECK brand of paper bags and have been impressed with their quality and performace.  The cost is about $2 per bag.  A bag lasts for almost 2 months and even then, it is not full when I replace. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

Everything is not about you.  You were very adamant that baking soda was not a good test for simulating dust.  However you were persistant in using kapok.    Not all homes have dog and cat hair.  All homes have dust and dirt so the kapok is not as good for testing as BS.. Having visited LV I have no doubt that you have lots of sand to vacuum.  Sand is not prevelant in all regions so others have different testing needs.  Again,  my original recommendation to use BS was not to you. 

You might get a lb of sand before clogging a bag.  I have serious doubts that you could get a lb of dust and dirt without losing suction since it is not so great even with a new bag.  I am not surprised that an Oreck bag lasts a year since it leaves so much dirt behind.  I never had a Dyson to clog or lose suction. 

I do not think it ir practical for you to do the test to justify your application since you vacuum mostly sand and dog hair.  I do think it is practical for those withe the proper need.

What difference does it make to me and millions of others if your Dyson did not pass your carpet test so long as it works for us?

Contrary to your belief the world does not always have your needs nor should they share your beliefs.

CarmineD wrote:

Hiya Carmine,

This link has been giving me trouble this evening but did work for me earlier in the day -- http://www.armhammervac.com/prod_cats/oreck.html

If it fails to get you to the Oreck bag listing maybe trying the "Jill's Secret Solutions" link will get you to the vacuum bags.  Click on the vacuum cleaner icon.

Walmart stocks a bunch of Arm & Hammer bags for Hoover and Eureka but nothing turned up when I searched for Oreck accessories.

Best,

Venson

Hello Venson:

Thanks for the link.  I'll research what's available for ORECK in the way of replacement bags by A&H.

Carmine D.

HS:

With all the productive uses for baking soda around the home, using it as a test substance to vacuum up and throw away is, IMHO, a waste of time and money.  Especially when other household debris, like sand and/or common household dirt/dust and household by-products, are free, in abundant supply, useless around the home, and certainly more worthy of waste and disposal than a fine multi useful product like baking soda. 

For example, dried out, used coffee grinds are an excellent test substance for vacuums on bare floors AND rugs.  If dried by natural sunlight, they have no odor whatsoever.  And used dried coffee grinds can be weighed before and after pick up by the user to measure vacuum performance.  A unique characteristic of used dried coffee grinds, unlike most other test substances, is that they hold steadfast to their original mass and volume.  Much better than baking soda which is powdery and breaks down/disintegrates/evaporates from the pressure and force of revolving brush rolls and normal vacuuming. 

As the old school saying goes: Waste not/want not!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

A one pound box of baking soda is $ .50.  I will type slowly so you can understand.  Soda is boxed and ready to go.  Who wants to dig up dirt and sand to take to a demo?  I do understand that you are reluctant to admit that the Oreck would fail the test.  Did I tell you how I got a free Dyson?

Another unique characteristic of coff is that it is oily whether moist or dry.  It also is less likely to clog bag pores like soda.  It is evident that you know you are wrong about this test. 

Hello Venson:

Interesting article.  A&H uses crystallized baking soda to prevent seeping out of the vacuum [a problem with the powdery substance].  And its an exclusive at Wal*Mart stores.  I actually bought it from Wal*Mart and use it.  Where?  In my sand filled backyard for the steel trash can I use for the dog's poop. Works great.  It neutralizes the odor from the contained dog poop.  Not completely, but making it more bearable when the lid is opened.  

It appears that A&H have ORECK bags and filters [based on the name brands listed on its Web site for products] but I can't get a product number and price for the ORECK replacements bags/filters [the latter presumably for the canns].  I get the same responses on the Site that you did.

Carmine D.

Hello HS:

Sounds like you got a great deal: A pound of baking soda for $.50.  Sounds like its cheaper by the pounds than it use to be in days past when it came in small little ounce boxes.  I always liked the graphics on the box.  Arm with a hammer.  Great logo. 

If the household baking soda were not so light and powdery, it would make a better vacuum test substance, IMHO.  The powder tends to seep out of the vacuum and evaporate [verified by A&H in the article Venson posted].  As such, it's not the ideal test substance for measuring before and after by the tester/user to determine a vacuum's performance.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I can tell from the above response you were never a hobby train enthusiast.  Used sun dried coffee grinds are a staple among train hobbyists for landscaping train layouts.  Why? Its dry, odorless, stainless and looks like real dirt.  And most importantly it has a crystal/particle composition.  Making it an excellent vacuum test substance for all the same reasons.

LIke baking soda, one can buy the imitation dirt from all the hobby stores very cheap.  Why buy when you can make all you want of it free?  Now, if you want different shades [light to dark] of dirt, and know how to achieve them from used coffee grind brands, you're really a hobby train aficionado. 

Carmine D.

Hello Venson:

Ironically, the side banner on this Web Site listed a source for genuine ORECK bags Type CC for $13 for a pack of 8.  Less than the $2 per bag I paid.

http://www.vacuums24x7.com/oreckbags.html

The odor proof bags are almost $4 per.  I don't think they are worth the price.  I've found the Type CC an excellent buy and performer.  The inside of the outer bag is dust/pet hair free after 15 months of daily use.  Can't get any better than that for a paper bag performance. 

Huge bag with a fool proof fit.  ORECK's least expensive of all paper bags.  With a rubber seal for the bag opening, and a locking dock for the bag.  The combination of the two [seal and locking dock] make the bags leak proof, deform proof, and impossible to put on incorrectly.  And a cinch to install. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

Sorry not to respond sooner.  Had a golf game.  I do like to look at model train layouts.  I just never had enough interest to make them a hobby.  There is a fantastic on in Chattanooga, TN.  I grew up around cars and trucks ( 18 wheelers ).  I have liked them since I could talk.  I built model cars rather than trucks.  Great idea about the coffee grounds,  I could build a full scale RR in a couple of months,

Hello Venson:

It appears that you have to contact an A&H person to get a price quote on a particular brand, unless of course you find them in the retailers.  From reading the claims by A&H, the bags/filters are outstanding.   A&H is making the vacuum bags and filters a mainstay venue for its operations.  I'm curious to hear the opinions from the indies about the quality and performace of the A&H bags/filters if they have experience using and selling.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I'd like to learn the same.  I think making parts and accessories for other brands is a lot to take on.  What you provide would have to better or at least as good. 

I make exception as Walmart, where shoppers are looking to save, has a large offering of A&H bags for many common, low to moderate price brands like Eureka and Hoover.

Do you have any knowlegde of how well single-ply knock-offs made to fit Electrolux did back in the day as opposed to the genuine article?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

The lux replacements were terrible.  I wouldn't use them and/or sell them in my store.  Strictly genuines for the Luxes back in my day.  Even if customers asked for a cheaper bag brand, I wouldn't sell.  I always sold them by the pack, not individually. 

They may have gotten now. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Walmart sells A&H vacuum cleaner bags and filters for many different brands.  HOOVER, Eueka, and DD taking most of the space.  At one time, I did recall seeing ORECK bags.  These were for the older uprights that did not have the docking port.  They were priced slightly higher than other bags like HOOVER Windtunnel.  They were about the same as the Pet Fresh bags.  I want to say they were about $6.99approx. for a 3pk., but I could be wrong.

Electrolux Homecare is the maker of these bags and filters.  They are using the A&H name.  The same w/ Homecare using the Honeywell name.  These bags are high quality.  I believe they are using a new technology.  What I do not like about their filters is that they are not washable.  Washing the filter will decrease the effectiveness of the baking soda.  The name brand filters of many vacuum cleaners use washable filters that will last a couple of years.  I believe the A&H brand says to replace between 6-12 mos.

Another thing I do not like about these brands is now they can charge a higher price for the bags/filters compared to the previous generic.  So, you could have purchased Homecare microlined bags for $3.50+.  Now, under the Honeywell name, the bags will cost you $5.99.

Venson wrote:
Generic vacuum cleaner bags, from the past, were very bad.  They were thin, filtered worse than name brand and sometimes were not made-to-fit properly.  In the 70's I had a Electrolux 1205.  I used generic multiply bags that performed very well.  I set the automatic control so that it would shut off at 3/4 full.  I found some generic, cheap bags.  They were horrible.  They were thin and single-ply.  There was no membrane dirt seal at the bag opening.  When the controls were set at the same as w/the multiply bags, the vacuum would shut off at 1/4 full.  Those bags were never used again.

Generic bags have changed, for the better, compared to years ago.  If the microlined bags, or better, are used,  filtration is pretty good.  Envirocare bags are another brand of generics that perform very well. 

Some brands of vacuum cleaners just perform better if genuine is used.  FQ is one that performed better w/ genuine cones.  They fit perfectly and filter much better.

There are some very good replacement filter bags on the market today, It seems envirocare is leading the field for now, they are a excellent replacement bag for the big name machines,

The best replacement lux bags were the V.C.B brand,triple filtered,glued at the bottom [never broke open], coupling and seal was as good as the oem bag and sometimes even fit better,

The perfect lux cloth type filtrete bags have proven to even outflow the oem aerus/lux bags. There are many on this forum that can attest to what i;ve said.I use these in my silverardo and the machine really picked up more airflow and runs cooler.

MOLE