Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

 The new Riccar SL5 now has a V belt with lifetime warranty.  Anyone think Oreck will finally make a change to their system to keep up?  With the SL1 and SL4 faring so well in Consumer Reports I would think David and the gang may want to finally change how their machine works.

Dusty

Dusty:

I have always maintained and still do, that the RICCAR/Simplicity lightweights are a notch or two above ORECK.  But the $150 price on the ORECK was a clincher for the nod.  While most end users don't want the hassle of buying and installing belts every 6-9 months, I don't mind atol.  I'm retired and enjoy it!

Carmine D.

How about a nylon reinforced geared tooth belt with a real time circuit breaker,not a heat sensor themo switch,Like CEN-TEC uses,there system works like this the belt breaks even the geared belt the motor over revs then the heat therm goes off[real innovative huh], I have already changed thiers over to a lux like set up,got it right the first time.NO I'M NOT TELLING YOU HOW TO DO IT,But i'll say it works right now.

If your talking about the KEVLAR belt,sorry eureka has already used that 6 years ago.[CHECK OUT A EUREKA TYPE R BELT],the v belt is similar to a serpintine belt,although quiet, they break just as fast as the V belts.

SEBOS and lindhaus work pretty good though,This industry has to stop using the lifetime theme. If they never break how come they make replacement parts?????

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

You previously told us that Oreck was best in light weight class.  Now you flip flop.  Doesn't the $800 Oreck use the same belt as the $150 version.  You know.  The one that needs changing very frequently, even if not used.

Yes it uses the same belt,but the brush rollor and bearing set up is much beefier....

MOLE

HARDSELL wrote:

The ORECK XL Classic weighs in at 8 pounds.  The RICCAR/Simplicity at 9. 

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

True, MOLE man!  More aggressive brush roll too.

Carmine D.

In All fairness Carmine,a few customers have complained about the XL21 sticking to their carpets,i have seen this first hand.The corner brushes well are not brushes anymore but plastic teeth.I believe this is the cause of the problem,you might want to contact ORECK and put in some imput,and see how they respond.

MOLE

MOLE:

They know already and that's where I learned.  These are usually high pile shag carpets.  The ORECKS including the XL21 Titanium as I understand are not suited for them.  Need an upright with a manual height adjustment for best results.  I noted that in the ORECK thread, if I recall correctly, when I talked about the ORECKs. 

ORECK store managers and staff are told to ask potential customers if they have high pile shag rugs and nix the sale.  Why?  In part, these ORECKS usually come back within the 30 day free in home trial. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
According to the Riccar website, the Superlites come in at less than 8lbs.

Dusty

mole wrote:
Riccar call it a Kevlar belt, I would describe it as a V belt.  Either way it's considered a lifetime belt and is covered under warranty as long as you own the machine.  The new agitator is also metal so I suspect (haven't had a chance to see it yet) that it's the same roller that's in the Radiance. 

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Hey Dusty:

According to the latest Consumer Reports, it's 9 pounds.  I'm sticking with my facts until I can verify the weight myself.  But, thanks for the info.

Carmine D.

The Riccar uses a poly V belt (like the fan belt on a car) which is Kevlar reinforced. For belt protection it has a Hall sensor that measures the speed of the brush and stops the motor immediately if it gets jammed. This also has a steel brushroll. In my opinion this is a much better machine than the Oreck in pretty much every way.

CarmineD wrote:

The XL doesn't have a manual height adjustment , doesn't have a brush cut off switch and the motor is too small.  Among other faults it clogs easily and belts wear out all too frequently even if it is not used.  It has inferior performance to heavier vacs and lighter vacs.  It is praised mostly for its weight and not performance. Free gifts have to be included with it in order for it to sell. Ol Dave must have had it designed to weigh in at 8 lbs so it would be in a seperate class from all other brands and could be best in class.  What a genius.

The Oreck isn't even best in its own class now.  The Tacony and TTI-made lightweights have since surpassed the Oreck in terms of cleaning performance AND value.  Proof that you can still be a lightweight machine and a REAL vacuum cleaner vs. a glorified electric broom or hair dryer on a stick.  And in the case of the Tacony models, also proof that you can use a lifetime belt on a single-motor upright without any problems.  Not that having a disposable belt prevents the Oreck from burning out the motor due to an obstruction in the brushroll...

A couple of years ago at the Hoover store, they had their very short-lived (due to the TTI buyout) Tacony-made Ultra Light Weight (ULW).  One of the comparisons they showed was an Oreck fan next to the ULW's fan.  The Tacony fan was considerably larger and had more blades, I forget the exact count but it was a lot more than 5

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

Hey Motor:

The problem with HOOVER outsourcing the ULW to Tacony was getting after market parts for it.  Especially the fan.  HOOVER [hence the end user customer] couldn't buy/replace the fan as a stand alone part item if it broke.  The user had to buy/replace the whole motor.   HOOVER employees and HOOVER ULW users were furious over this problem.  Wondering if that, more so than the TTI takover, resulted in the short lived ULW sales. 

ORECK fans are, and have always been, readily available and replaceable as a stand alone part item.

Carmine D.

I don't see how a Hoover dealer receiving aftermarket parts from Tacony would be any different than an independent licensed to carry Riccar or Simplicity.  Unless of course the ULW-specific fan (or other parts as such) had the Hoover name on it

At any rate, I wouldn't consider the TTI-made Hoover Clean & Light as a step backward, just Hoover going from one decent machine to another for whichever reason.  Those I've heard who have bought them love them.

CarmineD wrote:

Why would Hoover engineers let this get by them.  If you outsource the part can be built to your specs.  Sometimes it pays to have 500 engineers that know what they are doing.

I have heard that Oreck fans are not long lasting.  Perhaps that is why they are so readily available.

Actually Carmin, Hoover could get the fans seperate from Tacony, just as we can as a Tacony dealer.  The Hoover store in Denver even has the fan is stock...

Since we seem to be a bit uninformed here as to the entire life story of the Hoover ULW, I'll let everyone here know it.  Back when Hoover introduced the ULW, the agreement with Tacony was that the ULW would only be sold in the  Hoover facotry stores, so as not to put a version of the Riccar and Simplicity lightweight machine in big box stores.  Tacony is known for its commitment to it's dealers and even for a large Hoover contract would not stab them in the back.  With the fact that the Hoover factory stores are dying out, Hoover needed a machine they could sell thru the BBS and it's other far from independant dealer outlets.  This fact combined with the fact that Hoover now has access to the TTI built lightweight which was much cheaper for them, as a part of TTI to get caused Hoover/TTI to dump the ULW for a machine they made themselves and could sell everywhere.

Thank you Vacuuman for the update on the Ultra Lightweight and new Clean and Light.  Makes alot of sense.  My HOOVER sources were mid August 2006, when I purchased a HOOVER WT.  Things change.

In August 2006 I went shopping in the HOOVER stores [2 now 1] here in Las Vegas who carried and sold the HOOVER Ultra Lightweight Tacony sourced vacuum.  I expressed an interest in buying the Ultra Lightweight when HOOVER ran a $100 off sale.  Alot off on that particular model and MSRP.  Almost did! 

I asked the draws backs about buying a sourced vacuum from HOOVER that was made by Tacony.  I was told by both stores' staffs what I posted here about not getting the fans and having to buy the motor.  Opted against buying it and went with the HOOVER WT Supreme.  A good choice.

Carmine D.

Where cans one see this SL5 we speak of?  I looked on the Riccar website and the RSL4 (which I own) is the newest model listed in the supralites.

Just wrote:
It should be up on the site soon.  I've seen promo literature and hope to have the machines in the next couple weeks.  There is also a new commercial unit on the way too.

Dusty

Mike_W wrote:


The new "8lb." should be out by Aug.  They will be an improvement, eventhough there was not much to improve on.  Having a belt, that will not need to be changed often, will help. 

Mike_W wrote:

I agree, I can't think of alot on the SL4 that needs improvement.  I haven't had belt issues, though I have only had mine since Feb.  If there were any improvements I would suggest, it would be the noise level. I still think the motor is screechy, but it does a wonderful job for a little guy.

Forgive me for asking but are these models comparable to the old supra lite,and freedom uprights,

MOLE

The RSL4 is a Surpalite.  (Riccar) .  It is a really good machine, and my mother can run it from her wheelchair if she has the desire.

Shame on you J.P.T. you should get your mom a housekeeper,at least twice a week............

mole

mole wrote:
Hi Mole,

Yep, they are variations on the original supralite which is still being sold.  New models have switches moved up to an ergonomic hand grip, rubber wheels so bare floors don't get scratched, and hepa bags.

Dusty

mole wrote:

Mole,

She has one. . .ME!!  Notice I said "If she has the desire".  She only had the desire once since I had the machine, and that was because she spilled some cornflakes.

As I said in the review section, I like the Surpalite very much.  It has a very agressive brushroll so it fluffs the carpet very well.  Since most of my "dirt" is pet hair,  no complaints on the pick up.  The bag is very large, I can pack in a month of Eskie (American Eskimo Dog) with little problems (Also remember this is not the only vac in my house).  Thought he blue filterette bags are very good and less expensive, I would highly recommend the clothlike hepa bags as the machine appears to breath easier.  I judge this by the rigidity of the bag when the machine is running.    A drop of sented oil on a cotton ball then sucked up in the machine keeps down the "doggy smell" of the bag.

I just remembered that the new model also has a metal brushroll to go with the new belt.