Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi all,

Following is a link to a news article regarding the up and down sides for Electrolux during this year's first quarter.

http://www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/553091.html

Best,

Venson

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

I didn't say.  Kenneth J said.  In a court of law.  Which ruled against Kenneth J. on a technicality not the patent law. 

BTW, I neglected to mention [for those who don't recall] within 4 months of the DC15 Ball's launch in the USA in 2005, dyson was forced to drop the prices by $100.  From $699 to $599.  Now they're advertised for $499 and sold for even less.  Some may say to Kenneth J that he got street justice, not court justice.  Street justice: The court of public opinion.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Me, gullible?  No my friend.  I didn't take Tom Gasko's word without researching.  Did you?

I know enough about Kenneth J to say he is not lying in this matter.  The facts and circumstances are on his side.  

Unlike you, I never had courses in mind/heart reading so I can't say what motivated Kenneth J's actions other than he patented the invention before dyson.  Some might say FIRST.  In your court of public opinion, like you said above, that counts for something.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

My good man,

I do thank you for the compliment of being able to read minds when in fact I cannot.  This is how I came to my conclusions….  1)  Read the patent and claims 2) Read what he posted on the prior site (that is archived), then I compared what he said to…  3)  What Federal Court documents/complaints (sworn statements) with regard to Dyson v. Kenneth and then the Kenneth v. Dyson countersuit, the countersuit spells out that Kenneth was damaged and therefore wants to be “adequately compensated for damages sustained”.  The Kenneth J. patent filing date of 1996, and seemingly has not made money off his patent outside of potential future moneys by suing Mr. Dyson.  How did you come to your conclusions?

 

Make no mistake, I give the guy credit for the articulation nozzle (assuming he was first to invent this).  He was not close to the DC15 ball mechanism, but was close to inventing the DC18 type ball mechanism.  But without the center barrel shaped/spherical type wheel the widget/vacuum can’t lean/turn nearly as easy as if it was riding on…  well a Dyson barrel shaped/spherical type wheel.  Dyson brought to the market a line of highly steerable, pivotable upright vacuums and he looks to be making much profit from these, despite yours and/or other vacuum dealers and/or enthusiast’s objections.        DIB

 

P.S.  FYI, I very rarely use the “L” word for it is a very strong word indeed.

CarmineD wrote:

Technicality?  No.  If my memory is correct Kenneth spoke of the differences being - his widget had 2 wheels vs. Dyson's single ball wheel.  Kenneth too narrowly defined his widget in his claim (as having 2 wheels only).        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

My compliments.  You did excellent research and presentation.

I will respond in kind calling upon your words [paraphrased] with Electrolux and dyson. 

One or two [ball wheels/recycled models], first is first!   Dyson  claiming what isn't his.  Kenneth J invented and patented the vacuum wheel ball facilitator as an engineering student over 9 years before the DC15 Ball launched.  First counts for something in the court of public opinion even if it does not matter in a court of law.   The court of public opinion is bigger than the court of law.

I rest my case. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Yes, dyson did indeed.  First in 2005 with the DC15 Ball.  Worse of the upright dysons by most here [From $699 to $499 before discounts] .  Then 2007 with the DC18 Slim [$469 to $399 before discounts].  Next worse of the upright dysons based on the latest Consumer Reports ratings in March 2008.  The DC18 is currently discounted on clearance by most big box retailer stores.  Again in 2008 with the DC24/25 ball upright dysons.  [$399 and $499 to ???]. 

I get the distinct impression that dyson admittedly just can't get the ball vacuum wheel technology right.  Too bad about Kenneth J and dyson.  Kenneth J may actually be able to help dyson out.  Manufacturers of household appliances build in a 7 year obsolescence period.  By dyson's own record, he's shooting for a year.  I think the only thing he's shooting is his foot. 

This is street justice and not court justice.  In some cases, perhaps this is one, street justice is better served than court justice.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I wish DYSON would stop destroying the high end vacuum market.

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, there are some differences…

Kenneth J. (an engineering student), in his patent and claims stated he invented a steerable upright.

.

Stephen Benjamin Courtney, an engineering graduate (assumed), in his patent and claims stated and suppored by proof, that he invented a steerable upright.

.

I see nothing in the K.J. patent that makes me believe it could steer or steer easily.        DIB

CarmineD wrote:

Hey Carmine,

I’m going to ask not to be used as a reference (although I did say a lawsuit was plausible) on any future pie throwing posts.  FYI, I happen to like your challenges and I appreciate what Motorhead contributes here, especially Dyson.  Thanks.

 

The reason we saw only 1 manufacturer knock off Dyson LTD’s innovations is due to James Dyson’s resolve and using the courts (lawsuits) to define/remind others what belongs to him.  The courts and news reports punished Hoover Candy terribly over them stealing James’s intellectual property. – This sent a message loud and clear to the vacuum manufacturing industry.  Only after the Dual Cyclone patents expired did Hoover Candy, and Bissell copy James’ Dual Cyclone.  Hoover U.S. gambled on producing a vacuum using near expired Dyson Dual Cyclone patents, which may or may not have been money up or not much money up for them.  I think Hoover/Mayag lost on this lazy gamble in the short and long term.  Why?  Great ideas come from outside inventors, not just employed engineers.  What outside inventor will be stupid enough to trust a willful thief?        DIB

Hi DIB,

Thanks for the patent clarification and proving that (once again) the Kenneth J. Weger patent has virtually no relevance on this thread (or concerning Dyson for that matter; two completely different machines).  I can see where the main body of the machine articulates, however, it does not appear that the nozzle can be easily steered as on the Dyson patent.  It's easy to tell why this lawsuit was thrown out; Dyson did not copy the patent but instead took the basic design and improved on it like they have done many times.  As for the name of his device, the "Ball Wheel Facilitator", I believe that is misleading because the term "ball wheel" implies that it is a single ball wheel, when it is instead two convex wheels that move with the articulated body of the cleaner.  Like you said, I do not see how this could be steered easily unless the nozzle floated somehow (since the nozzle is obviously not on a pivot itself), and even then I have to wonder how effective this steering mechanism would be.   Since Kenneth J. didn't actually produce a cleaner, we will have to leave it up to our own opinions.

As far as the Electrolux/Dyson issue with the recycled cleaner, do I predict it will be a huge blowup?  No, but something *will* happen eventually, most likely Electrolux removing their "world's first recycled vacuum cleaner" claim with a minimum of fanfare.

-MH (too far South to be my friend Tom G. lest you forget Carmine )