Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

What and how long will it take jaydee to realize that he needs to enter the low to middle price range vacuum market to stay competitive in the USA in the big box stores' venue?

Any news yet on the 2007 dyson sales? 

Carmine D.

Lucky1:

I agree with your dyson conclusions and have heard the same from others.  There is money to be made on dyson sales and the big box retailers made it already.  Independent vacuum store owners can't compete with them for sales.  It's interesting that you say you won't sell the dyson brand because you want to have satisfied customers.  Other vacuum store brands are better for the money.  I've talked with vacuum store owners and operators here in LV and on the east coast who say the exact same as you.  They will only sell the dyson brand if a customer specifically asks.  And also in order to repair and have access to dyson parts.  Then, only with caveats on the dyson shortcomings to the buyer and after a comparative vacuum brands' demo-ing. 

You're right.  Vacuum customers buy a dyson from a big box retailer/HSN and if they dislike it, they blame themselves.  But if they buy from you/independent vacuum store owner, it's your fault.  They return and say: You sold me a lemon and/or a piece of high price plastic junk.   Most store owners and operators would agree with you.  Why do vacuum customers do this?  I think because you and the independents are the industry experts and professionals.    They expect you to sell the best for the money.  Not the best for the profit.

Carmine D.

Lucky,

What are the top 1,2,3 or 4 complaints you hear at your shop from "dissatisfied [Dyson] customers"?        DIB

Selling $656,000,000.00 (in today’s dollars) worth of inventions in 3 years time, indeed is a lot of money and for some it is a lot to get their heads around.  Dyson most likely was paid royalties on gross dollars made.  Do you know a better and easier way to make this kind of money in the vacuum business?        DIB

Hi DIB:

Yes, and I mentioned it before.  Invest all the $6.9 MILLION proceeds of a successful lawsuit into Bershire Hathaway in 2000 and now it would be worth over $1.6 billion [in today's dollars].  B-H owns Kirby in addition to other investments.  And do nothing except sit at my computer and exercise the stock buy.  Even better there are no expenses and costs to offset the $656 Million in sales.  Clear profit.

Carmine D.

Hey Carmine,

Pushing paper is not James’ “gift”.  Kirby? - come on man, investing in antiques? - What’s fun about that?  Today, the UK’s “Sunday Times” values James total worth at $2,160,000,000 and he still collects on average $120,000,000 per year from Dyson sales.  And he can close down his R&D by half and pay off another $50 million annually in business debts (making the company worth that much more).  James is money up by following his God given gift/s.        DIB

My guy [Warren Buffett, B-H is an antique at 77 just like the Kirby company he owns which has been around since the 1930's ] is bigger than your guy [James Dyson, a business youngin].  Mr. Buffett  according to Forbes in March 2008 is the richest in the world with $62 BILLION and he gifted over $30 BILLION to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation last year.  Mr. Dyson according to the same source is ranked 743 with $1.6 BILLION.   I'll stick with B-H.  I'm a retired antique. The fun for me is keeping count.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Please do not misunderstand, Kirby the product is an antique not people.  I like Mr. Buffet as many do, although I am doing my best to understand his friendship with predatory business men i.e. Bill Gates

Just taking a quick look at the Kirby/Scott latest patents it seems they have no patented innovations that can be called revolutionary or that the competition is dying to copy.  But I can be wrong.  Simply looking at the product, one sees nothing external that screams revolution.  The Kirby profile I found online showed Kirby with $460m in sales.

My quote of Dyson’s current wealth was taken from this UK online newspaper (at bottom of Dyson article).  And it states James is worth over $2b.  But upon closer inspection it looks like a typo and the wealth I quoted looks to be from 2007 but the story was mistyped, and the typo read 2008.  James like many UK billionaires wealth decreased, James’ estimated worth this year is only $1.5b as you quoted.  I fully believe new non-vacuum appliances will be coming and be profitable.

Investing in BH is investing in many, many corporations not just Kirby.  Kirby would of never paid as does James’ namesake.        DIB

Hello DIB:

I did not want to hone in on Kirby which is by all means a niche vacuum and market for sales.  Albeit one that has been steady and stable for many many years.  WIth a well recognized product and brand.  We even have a direct descendent of Mr. Kirby himself who posts on this Forum albeit infrequently.   

Buffett is a marvel at 74.  His partner Charles Munger, life-long friends, is 84 and a noted money maker in his own right.  Relics some say, just like me, as some say.  Among their holdings: McDonald's, See's Candies, Coca Cola, Washington Post, Dairy Queen, GEICO [gecko] and recently fronted $7 BILLION for the Wringley's-Mars candy deal.  SEVEN BILLION.  By B-H standards that's small.  Generally B-H fronts an average of $10-25 BILLION to consumate business deals. 

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are good friends.  Play poker together.  You're an Apple/Steve Jobs guy so I understand your dislike for Gates, who by the way was number 3 by the Forbes rankings with $58 Billion.  Bill and Melinda Gates matched Buffett's $31 Billion for their foundation.  It does wonderful things worldwide for the poor and hungry with no strings and politics attached. 

Carmine D. 

PS: DIB:

My source is one you quoted first: Forbes magazine March 2008.  Dyson's decrease in wealth from 2006 to 2007 was very predictable.  Why?  The downturn in the world economy.  His wealth may decrease further depending on the length and severity of the poor global economic conditions.  [Did you read the professional advice/assessment of buying/gifting a $600 dyson vacuum for Mother's Day?].  If not, it's on the thread: Dyson in the news.  Worth a read.

Mr. Dyson should focus on bagless vacuums and making them better and less expensive than the competition.  And building a support system of dealers/stores in the US and CAN that can and will service/sell dysons for the long haul. In good economic times/bad.  He has not and does not do these things.  All the major US big box retailers have/had exclusive dyson models [Target, SEARS, BEST BUY, Wal*Mart].  Even a Susan G. Komen edition. Some more than one.  What happened to the vacuum stores/dealer exclusives? 

The new dyson vacuums are becoming more expensive and require more user maintenance.  Is this progress?  Or are we going back wards?  Dah?  And the vacuum store dealership support is just an after thought.  These are weaknesses for a business man like Mr. Dyson.  And, as we have already seen, costly mistakes.

Carmine D.