Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Early news reports in the USA are saying the London financial markets nosed dived today in the worse downturn ever.  This comes on the heels of a 4 percent drop in the Dow Jones Industrials last week alone.  Since today is a Federal Holiday in the US in observance of Dr. Martin Luther King the financial markets are closed.  Not sure what impact the London market fall will have on the US markets--have to wait to see.

What and how long will it take jaydee to realize that he needs to enter the low to middle price range vacuum market to stay competitive in the USA in the big box stores' venue?

Any news yet on the 2007 dyson sales? 

Carmine D.

In 1978, about 10 Million new vacuums were sold every year in the USA.  By 2000, about 19 Million.  Now it's about 20 Million.  Back to the original question: Do the Fantom math [$ sales divided by average unit price].   What are the results?  Still impressed by the sales units every year?

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine, do you think that dysons following the same road as fantom? The reason being still no factory service centers,a few scattered here and there,months and months just to get parts delivered,the machine is so complicated that the average service manager just tells the customer send it back to the place it came from,we just dont want to deal with it.

Most of the indy's are now having a field day on dyson, such as you did not buy that piece of junk here, what makes you think im going to go out of my way to fix it your you,

The only reason these guys are still around is because of the marketing hype,and you and i and every indy in the country knows it.

WHAT happened to the revolutionary dc21 canister that was suppose to take over the high end canister market? I 'll tell you its a failure,and it uses the same cyclone set up as their uprights, So my question is why has their upright stayed alive [for now] and the canister that is the same set up a failure,[COULD IT BE THE WAY ITS ADVERTISED]i THINK SO.

THE GIG IS UP..............

MOLE

mole wrote:

Mole,

Most consumers will try to tell the world if they do not like a product that they purchase.  Most will say nothing if they like it.  I have not found a vacuum with more satisfied customers than Dyson.  I believe that goes way beyond marketing hype.  What is more hyped than the Oreck?

It seems that the only negative responses come from those who can't profit from Dyson sales.

For the past several years another has told us that Dyson would be out of business within a few months each time he posted.  He also hyped another brand that would be the demise of Dyson.  We all know which one failed. 

HARDSELL wrote:
I agree one would think that unsatisfied customers would squawk the most but it's still a mixed bag of pros vs cons, more so than any other brand I can account for. Dyson has a lot of dissatisfied customers. At the shop we hear complaints about them all the time. I offer them for sale but I would rather sell the customer another brand. NOT FOR A BETTER PROFIT as you imply but to retain a SATISFIED CUSTOMER. The risk out weighs the reward to an Indie. People will buy one crappy product after another from BB& Beyond or QVC and STILL remain a customer but If I sell them a lousy product they will not come back.

I don't have any crystal ball to predict their demise or not but the preponderance of Refurbs and "Used only a few times" machines on Ebay is not a good thing in my opinion. Still great Graphic Design and Fantastic Marketing can sell a lot of product.

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

Dyson certainly is not following the Oreck sales/service model here in the USA.  I don't know about the UK.  But my sense is that after being in the UK for 25 years, it does not.  

Lucky1 and you hit the nail on the head.  Dyson knows how to sell his product with catchy literature, phrases and TV ads.  Mr. Dyson admits that his products are flawed.  Classic is the flawed brush roll on the DC07 and DC14.  Common knowledge in the industry.  Even the BEST BUY sales staff say so.  In interviews Mr. Dyson encourages his people to try ideas and ways that will fail.  It's served dyson/him well.  But his timing for export to the USA was superb in April 2002.  Ironically he can't take credit for that move.  It was the management of BEST BUY that persuaded him to do so when he did.  In the tougher economic environment, it will be interesting to see how dyson sales fare.  We've already seen some chinks developing in the armor: Dyson MAP is out the window [retailers just call the advertised sale a clearance, or in the case of Wal*Mart a price roll-back], steep discounts of 20 percent plus Giftcards and store cash back are common practice now.   These big box stores' sales incentives for dysons were unheard of a few years ago.  The times they are a changin.  Recall all the dyson supporters who said this would never happen with dyson in all their posts.   A few posters [who no longer use their same logos/are absent on this Forum] even said dyson would kill off all the vacuum competition in a year/two.  Haven't seen that come to pass.  Just the posters who said so.

What's that music I hear playing in the background: The party's over.

Ironically, MH pointed out the downfall of Fantom vacuums were the inferior high priced filters.  What has dyson done with filters in its latest and greatest products?  From cleaning every 6 months to now every 3 or less months.  What happens when you wash and dry filters?  They lose filter efficiency.  Solution: Buy more.  Fantom was a niche vacuum.  If we believe the dyson sales data posted here, dyson has a 10 percent market share.  IN GOOD ECONOMIC TIMES.  What lies ahead?  50 years from now will dyson still have a presence in the US vacuum market like Oreck, HOOVER and others, let alone 10 percent or more?  Time will tell. 

What's next for dyson in the USA?  Sales have waned.  Why?  Look at all the big box incentives.  Dyson has to compete with the less expensive disposables.  Read: Cheap.  If dyson wants to survive in the US vacuum market with the big box retailers as its primary venue, it will have to have $200 and less vacuums.  I predict those are the next products on the dyson agenda.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

I wasn't trying to imply that an indy would try to sell another brand for higher profit.  My contention is that the indys who do not sell Dyson do the most complaining. 

I have said many times that all the indy brands must require a lot of parts or supplies.  If not how do the stores stay in business?  I do not believe that there is enough profit or units sold by indys to keep in business.

Used vacuums (way before Dyson) have always been prominent on the internet and in many stores that deal in refurb products. 

I like Dyson but I will be the first to admit that they are overpriced.  So was Hoover and others.  I paid $400 for a Hoover that can now be purchased for less than 1/2 that amount.

Lucky1 wrote:

Lucky1:

I agree with your dyson conclusions and have heard the same from others.  There is money to be made on dyson sales and the big box retailers made it already.  Independent vacuum store owners can't compete with them for sales.  It's interesting that you say you won't sell the dyson brand because you want to have satisfied customers.  Other vacuum store brands are better for the money.  I've talked with vacuum store owners and operators here in LV and on the east coast who say the exact same as you.  They will only sell the dyson brand if a customer specifically asks.  And also in order to repair and have access to dyson parts.  Then, only with caveats on the dyson shortcomings to the buyer and after a comparative vacuum brands' demo-ing. 

You're right.  Vacuum customers buy a dyson from a big box retailer/HSN and if they dislike it, they blame themselves.  But if they buy from you/independent vacuum store owner, it's your fault.  They return and say: You sold me a lemon and/or a piece of high price plastic junk.   Most store owners and operators would agree with you.  Why do vacuum customers do this?  I think because you and the independents are the industry experts and professionals.    They expect you to sell the best for the money.  Not the best for the profit.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

Lucky,

What are the top 1,2,3 or 4 complaints you hear at your shop from "dissatisfied [Dyson] customers"?        DIB

CarmineD wrote:

Selling $656,000,000.00 (in today’s dollars) worth of inventions in 3 years time, indeed is a lot of money and for some it is a lot to get their heads around.  Dyson most likely was paid royalties on gross dollars made.  Do you know a better and easier way to make this kind of money in the vacuum business?        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hi DIB:

Yes, and I mentioned it before.  Invest all the $6.9 MILLION proceeds of a successful lawsuit into Bershire Hathaway in 2000 and now it would be worth over $1.6 billion [in today's dollars].  B-H owns Kirby in addition to other investments.  And do nothing except sit at my computer and exercise the stock buy.  Even better there are no expenses and costs to offset the $656 Million in sales.  Clear profit.

Carmine D.