Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hello,

I'll be honest, I know nothing about vacuum cleaners except that I need one. I have 4 criteria for selection:
1) Works well
2) built well/will last me a long long time (serviceable)
3) Made in US, Japan, or Western Europe
4) Hopefully no more than $350

I think Oreck may end up being my choice since it's made in the US and I haven't found any others that aren't manufactured in south east Asia. But that's why I'm here! To tap into your brains :)

US made Simplicity F3600 over the Oreck About $289 (in store much higher by phone and no internet sales)

A bit about your flooring Situation would help.

Canisters
If you need suction only -Miele Carina about $369
If you have bare floors and 4 or less area rugs- Miele Antares (Great bare floor tool and a Turbo for carpet) about $369
If you have bare floors and some carpeted rooms go the extra money and get a Bosch Formula Duo About $499

Uprights
I don't like many uprights in the lower price range
US made Simplicity F3600 over the Oreck About $289 (in store much higher by phone and no internet sales)
All Carpet-Simplicity Symmetry Series 200-400
All Carpet-Not sure if the Panasonic Platinum Series is made in the US-simple design great motor
Any Flooring -SEBO Felix $550- Incredible versatility

If you can't find these locally or at a reasonable price LMK. 201-564-7200

Lucky

I own and use an Oreck XL Deluxe.  It just turned one year old.  I purchased thru a promotion that Oreck had with the US Humane Society.  I paid $150 plus shipping.  One year guaranty.  No extras and giveaways.  I like it so much, I bought several more and gifted them to family members.  My review of this Oreck vacuum is on this web page if you're interested in reading.  If I'm not mistaken, Oreck is offering a Mother's Day special now.  If you're interested let me know and I will email the details to you by private message on this web Site.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine uses a different vacuum each day.  He has no idea which if any is doing a good job.  If you have delicate carpet get the Oreck.  They do not have enough suction to pull the knap into the brush.

HARDSELL wrote:

The Oreck XL DeLuxe upright is now my daily user for both floors and carpet cleaning.  It has been for a number of months.  My carpet is medium pile looped wool Mohawk in 2 bedrooms and the study.  The remaining floor covering is ceramic tile and area and throw rugs.  I have an English lab that sheds year round and two grand daughters pre-school age who visit almost daily.  I supplement the Oreck with a compact HOOVER Canister for above the floor cleaning [also reviewed on this site].

The HOOVER WT Supreme [reviewed on this site too], which will be 2 years old in August 2008 and still going strong, is the only other household upright in my home [right now]and is a few days shy of a donation to a local Church parish Office.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Wise choice to gift the Hoover.  Now if you could only find someone who would take the Oreck you could buy a good vac.  Starts with D.

Back to the starter's question, based on my personal and professional experience I agree with Lucky completely.  I personally use a Riccar (same as Simplicity) and Miele to vacuum my house and know that they perform well, live up to their claims, and not fall apart on me.  Look around at the vac shops near you and take a look at these brands, I think you will be impressed.

Vacuuman wrote:

These brands and their models are also reviewed on this Web page under the header tab: Reviews.  And I suggest that the poster/questioner read them also.

Carmine D.

Heres my opinion ,but what do i know.
1 Rebuilt electrolux, metal or lexan body both will last you 40 plus years,with 1 or 2 strong tune ups every 10 to 15 years,[there are some very good recon guys out there and they warranty their machines as good as a new one.

2 bosch formula , very strong contender, miele such as the ones vacuuman,and lucky like,

3 KIRBYS. any genertion series done correctly,i would recommend dealing with people that understand these machines.

4 oreck stay at the classic series,very good customer care

5 panasonic uprights or canisters,very nice value for the money,parts are are getting tough though.

6 pawn shops, sometimes get new stuff for almost nothing,

7 hire a cleaning service...............

regards

 THE-MOLE

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I will have no difficulty gifting/reselling my Oreck Classic XL at some future time.  I am confident it will provide the same worthy service with minimal user attention, save belt and bag changes every several months.  Both tasks the user can do in a few minutes.

I'm currently looking for another comparable lightweight to replace it, perhaps an Oreck upgrade and/or a SIMPLICITY/RICCAR.  I thought the dyson DC24/25 were contenders until I saw and used them.  I have ruled them out at this point [and so has my dear Wife].  She loves the Oreck. 

BTW, have you purchased a new dyson or are you using the Dirt Devil/Royal Eminence?  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Morning Carmine,

I still use the Royal and Kirby.  The weather is nice in TN.  Too much golf to play vs playing with vacs.  I doubt that I will buy a new Dyson as I really only like the DC7. I admit that I have no experience with any of the $#%* and I may try one later.

HARDSELL wrote:

We have a beautiful 18 hole golf course on the grounds of our housing community.  But I'm too young to play golf.  Maybe when I'm older.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

I suppose b a l l is a dirty word

HARDSELL wrote:

It is to me when used in union with golf!  A sport for old people.

Carmine D.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! This is super helpful. Just FYI about the flooring situation: it's mostly fairly plush carpeting, with a few bare floors. Don't really have a preference of canister versus upright.

scathontiphat wrote:

What are you currently using and how well do you like it?

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

I know you are not a fan of Wal*Mart BUT..........if you are interested in the DC07, WM is discounting the dyson DC07 Original from its $378 to $319.  And it's an advertised special too thru May 11 [strike another blow against the dyson MAP].  With the purchase, you get a $50 WM Gift Card.  Not too bad: $270 for a new DC07.  The only draw back is a 2 year warranty instead of the 5 year.  Pretty blue color.  WM exclusive dyson.  I hear they have lots, so you may want to wait awhile and see if WM ups the ante.  Say a $100 Gift card.  Did I mention that WM stock is up over 22 percent this year.  At $58 a share.  If it throws in some stock shares, I might even buy another dyson and gift it away to my worse enemy!  I know what you are thinking HS.  No such luck.  It's not you!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I never said that I was not a fan of Wal Mart.  I only said that they do not sell high end products.  I buy at Wal Mart unless I want better quality.   Also, Wal Mart is not always the lowest price, especially in their groceries and meats. 

I do not like gift cards.  Just give me the discount on the item that I am purchasing.  I prefer the Yellow to the blue color.

My opinion of Wal Marts success is the convenience of their stores.   Not many Sears or K Marts available except in major metro areas or malls.  No Montgomery Wards of other stores that preceded Wal Mart.  Wal Mart will be like Circuit City in the future.  No company reins forever.

I am in total agreement with Vacuuman and Lucky1.  The Simplicity and Riccar lightweights are good performers that put out a decent amount of airflow (unlike the Oreck), and if we want to take this into consideration, earned good scores the last time they were tested in CR. 

I would also consider the TTI-made lightweight uprights such as the Lux Lite, Royal, and Hoover Clean & Light.  Both these and the Riccar/Simplicity are great examples that a machine can be both lightweight and a REAL vacuum cleaner at the same time instead of a glorified electric broom. 

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

I would advise giving the dyson DC07 at WM a shot for $270.  It can always be returned if it doesn't perform. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

Did you skip your medication.  I can't believe that you would talk such trash.

HARDSELL wrote:

No, I've had my coffee today!

Carmine D.

Uh-Uh the TTI's and Dyson are made in the orient and don't fit the requirements (#3) and as far as the Dyson (#3 & #2)...of the Original Post!!!!!

Lucky1 wrote:

Lucky1:

Agree wholeheartedly.  Wasn't sure if the poster knew dysons were made in Malaysia.  Does now.  Most don't realize they are all made in Chinaville now.  They are lead to believe from the TV ads by Mr. Dyson that they are made in the UK.  I think all ads whether TV/news print should clearly indicate the product's place of production.  I doubt it will come to be. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Wheere is Hoover and Bissell made?

Hello HS:

Chinaville just like all the other big box store vacuums.  It's all slave labor without the guilt.  Dyson has jumped on the big box discount band wagon as pointed out on many threads on this site.  Dyson vacuums have to compete with the other Chinaville made vacuums by advertising and selling below MAP and in concert with Giftcards and store cash dollars returned.  Case in point:  The DC18 sells for $300-$369 at regular store prices.  Well below its MSRP of $469 and MAP.  The DC17 for $400, well below its $549 MSRP and MAP.  The DC07 for $319 well below its $378 MSRP and MAP at Wal*Mart which has the exclusive dyson Original model.  No other retailer sells that model.

I recall several years ago, Wal*Mart rolled back the price on the dyson exclusive All Carpet DC07 from $359 to $309 and it caused a bruhaha which resulted in a dyson hiatus at the WM stores for almost 2 years.  Not so now.  Dyson needs WM and other big box retailers to push its vacuum products. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

Which tv ad/s is James misleading folks?        DIB 

Hello DIB:

I didn't say misleading.  I said "lead to believe."  Why?  The English accent! 

Since you asked:  I have mentioned that until recently if you asked sales staff at the big box retailers what is the country of production for dysons, most would say England/UK.  Why?  Because of James Dyson anf thre home grown and sold dyson vacuums before exports started in 2002.  Now more and more know Chinaville.

Also, if you note the dyson cartons, the only place that mentions made in malaysia is the tiny little serial number sticker tag on the box.  The lettering for the made in statement is the smallest leaglly allowed by Federal law.  Most people can't read it without a magnifying glass.  Take a look and see for yourself.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

What is the difference besides the wording?

HARDSELL wrote:

The difference is the intent in the mind of Mr. Dyson: Willful or unintentional.  I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, since I've not yet mastered the art of reading minds.  However, there is no doubt about the size of the print on the carton sticker. 

Carmine D.

I'm joining this discussion because I too would like advice on a new vacuum. I've read all the posts in this thread and some of the others. There's so much knowledge here!
The discussion that drew me to the site was the one about the Shopvac EasyLift. My husband called me from Lowes yesterday wondering if he should buy one, and after reading the responses on that thread I called him back saying "NO!"

The reason the Shopvac momentarily appealed was its light weight. Oreck seems very expensive (and has mixed reviews on this site).

I have lots of joint aches etc and the vacuum has to be carried upstairs etc: it must be as light as possible.
Plus we have allergies so need a good filter.

We currently have a Dirt Devil bagless, not heavy, but it has other problems: it's hard to open it to empty the dirt out. The dirt sticks to the filter in a horrible way. While you're vacuuming, there's a fan that blows all the dirt around in front of the vacuum, and away from it! The vacuum is very noisy. And now the rotating brush thing underneath doesn't rotate.

Experience with emptying this vacuum makes me feel like going back to bags. I see the bagged Hoover Clean and Light has been recommended above.

We used to have more wall-to-wall carpet but now have mostly wood floors and about 6/7 area rugs. I see the miele antares has been recommended for such a situation.

Some of the rugs are oriental; I've seen Oreck recommended for those (does it have less suction?!).

I'm far from fastidious; won't admit here how often (or not!) I vacuum; just want a lightweight easy-to-use vacuum that works on bare floors and area rugs, and (preferably) has a couple of easy-to-use attachments for corners, furniture etc.

I haven't really liked using a canister in the past because you have to carry or drag the canister while also holding the hose...but now most of our floors are wood, perhaps a canister would be better?

As you can see, I am confused by the plethora of information! And I've been disappointed with many vacuums in the past.

Ok, I guess my questions are as follows:

1) Is canister vs/upright simply a question of personal preference in the end?
2) I know there's controversy on this site re Dyson; but what about the new Dyson lightweight? (can't recall model number.)
3) bagless vs bags: i hated the difficulty of emptying my dirt devil and the way you have to bang the central filter against something to get the dirt off. Dyson claims emptying its vacuums is easy, is this true? Are there any other bagless that are easy to empty? Buying bags is a hassle, of course.
4)the Hoover canister 51361 has been recommended here as lightweight (tho has bags), any other feedback on this canister?

Hoping for guidance!
Christine.

Cristine:

Many of the vacuums mentioned will perform well.  Oreck included.  Oreck offers something that no other vacuum brand does:  Free in home trial for 30 days with no obligation.  If you decide you don't like it for any reason, you return it at Oreck's expense.  Now, think for a moment.  If the Oreck vacuum were as bad as some say, would Oreck make and stick to that promise [for over 45 years]?  Right: No. 

It will serve your purposes well.  If you shop wisely you can snag a new one for $300 [XL Classic Deluxe] or less and a used one even cheaper.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Christine.

Most big box stores offer 30 money back guarantee (same as Oreck).  Carmine sometimes is misleading in pushing his preferred brand.  Not unusual for a current or past sales person.   Most of the vacs that the big box stores sell are heavier than the Oreck but in my experience they clean much better than Oreck.

I admit to liking Dyson because they vacuum so well.  Dyson is the only upright that I have used that does not blow dust and dirt away from the vacuum on hard floor surfaces.  If you visit an Oreck store for their demo take a bag of fine dust and lint.  You could take a box  of baking soda if dust is not available.  Ask them to vacuum it on a hard floor surface.  The cerial and heavier objects that they use are heavier and do not blow around so much. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

After being used and without the box?  Most big box retailers have made returns/refunds much more difficult over the last year.  Only COSTCO, to my knowledge, still has a liberal return/refund policy, probably due in large part to the annual income of their members: About $60,000.

You may have missed a post recently here where a customer tried to return a new dyson to Sam's Club under warranty that burned out after several weeks of use.  Sam's Club refused to accept it telling the buyer to send it back to dyson under warranty.  This is not uncommon now for big box retailers who have taken huge losses year after year by accepting returns/refunds on high priced vacuums.  Why?  They can't resell these returns for new.  Instead, they have to mark them down until sold, most times with the caveat "as is" and without the manufacturers' full warranty.

I own and use an Oreck XL Classic Deluxe.  I also own and use other vacuums.  Including at one time a dyson DC07 pink.  I would recommend the Oreck upright to all persons interested in a lightweight vacuum that performs on rugs and floors just like a full size vacuum. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

You have one or two examples out tof millions that are sold.  Thanks for the comedy.

I owned and used an Oreck XL21 among other vacuums.  It was the worst of the lot and the most expensive by a large margin.  You do not always get the performance that you pay for.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Comedy has nothing to do with business unless one is an entertainer.  In good economic times when high price vacuums sell at big box retailers [as they have in recent past], they can afford to eat the losses on the returns/refunds.  Not so in bad times.  Big box retailers are cutting staff, closing stores, and reporting the worse sales in 35 years.  The majority of the big box stores' shoppers are having financial difficulty due to high food and gas prices and the uncertainty of their employment futures.

I paid $150 for the new Oreck XL Classic Deluxe with a one year guaranty.  I use it daily.  It's over a year old.  I gifted the same Oreck models to 3 other households who are pleased and satisfied.   And I will probably upgrade my Oreck to a more expensive model, and gift several more away.    At least I know not to consider you a donee!

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Your exagerations are comical, not the bad business.

No worry about closings.  The executives can get their millions and the workers can go to the soup lines. Isn't that the American way?

christine wrote:
Hi Christine,

I'm the one who initially reported on the Shop-Vac EasyLift, having purchased one in November of '07.  I wasn't all that impressed.  It is light weight, but is cheaply made and very noisy.   Being a direct-air upright like the Oreck with no provision to shut off the brushroll, it would also (like the Oreck) not be a good choice for those with mostly bare floors.  Having owned an Oreck I can say that Oreck's bare floor cleaning claims is 99% hype, as Hardsell noted they tend to blow a lot of debris back at your feet and leave some debris untouched. 

Narrowing it down, it seems you would be more inclined to an upright as you're looking for a machine that is not too bulky and can be carried around without bending over.  Some uprights are more bare-floor friendly than others; since you have mostly bare floors with the exception of a few oriental rugs you would want an upright with an option to shut off the motorized brushroll, or detachable nozzle.  Regardless of what Carmin or anyone else says, an upright like the Oreck with no brushroll shutoff option would not be a good machine in your situation.  If you're looking for a bagged lightweight upright, Miele offers the S168 Universal Upright (link).  It has an amazing amount of power for its size (infinitely variable motor speed) unlike the Oreck, uses the Miele Intensive Clean microfiltration bags that can hold a good amount of debris without the machine losing power, and since you mentioned you have oriental rugs to clean in addition to the bare floors it can accept an optional power nozzle as well (I would recommend either the SEB226 or 236).  The downside is that no, the brushroll cannot be shut off with the power nozzle still attached to the machine, however, the power nozzle quickly disconnects and can be replaced with the combination nozzle or bare floor tool in seconds.

Another good bagged upright choice is the Sebo Felix (PDF link), which is very similar to the Miele Universal Upright, like the Miele it offers a lot of machine for the price.  Different from the Miele, though, the powerhead can be shut off to clean bare floors instead of detaching it, which may be more convenient for you. 

If you want a lightweight bagless upright, Dyson is the only way to go.  The problem with the Dirt Devil you're using is that it is a filtered bagless machine.  Instead of a bin with two or three consecutive stages of cyclones, there is simply a pleated filter in the center of the bin to trap the fine dust.  Like a bagged machine, fine dust and pet hair will attach to that filter causing it to clog and suction to drop off, not to mention making the machine extremely messy to empty.  That is not a proper bagless machine.  The Dyson, on the other hand, is a proper cyclonic bagless, meaning there are no bin filters to clog; instead a series of cyclones handle the dust separation.  The machine does not lose power as you go along, regardless of what is being vacuumed up, and is a lot less messy to empty.   Depending on the size of your home, I would recommend either the DC24 or DC25 Ball models (Baby and Daddy Ball, respectively; links here).  Both are lightweight, powerful machines (unlike the Oreck), and like the bagged lightweight uprights I mentioned above, are easily adaptable for bare floors.  Both the DC24 and 25 have a brushroll on/off switch.  These machines you will want to check out in person to see which suits you best; the DC24, while extremely lightweight and equipped with a telescoping handle is very small and not the best choice for larger homes due to its small bin capacity (more frequent emptying). 

You've come to the right place for a recommendation.  As with anything, you will hear different opinions, and I recommend you explore all of them.  Head to different independent dealers in your area, try each brand or machine out for yourself, and find which one suits you the best before you make your purchase. 

Hope this helps, and good luck on your search,

-MH

Although not in the most recent CR ratings, in the past Consumer Reports has rated Oreck's bare floor cleaning performance as "excellent'.   Consistently.  If you haven't, you should read the March 2008 CR edition.  It's a good starting place.

Based on my personal and professional experience, I would rate Oreck's bare floor cleaning as excellent too [with a properly working belt and bag].  I add the latter caveat because some may have used an Oreck, in need of service, and been disappointed by the performance.  Both bag and belt changes are explained in the User Manual and can be performed by the user in a few minutes.  Recommended bag changes are every 2-3 months [depending on use] and belts should be changed every 6-9 months.  Inexpensive and widely available.

Many of the other vacuum brands and models are equally good and will perform well.  It really depends on your likes and dislikes and cleaning requirements and needs.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Bad business to me is comical but is no laughing matter.  Then, again I try to find the humor in all things.  That's why I like you.

Carmine D.

I also recommend the SEBO Felix.

Your requirements (bare floors, various height carpeting and on-board tools) demands a versatile vacuum preferably a canister with a powerhead that has a brushroll that can be turned on and off. However you would prefer an upright over a canister. The Felix fits every requirement. It is an upright that has the powerhead of a canister which can be raised or lower to the specific carpet height required. The brushroll can be turned off for bare floors or the (included) top quality floor brush can be substituted for optimum cleaning. All heads can be removed and using the attached hose and on-board tools you can use it as a powerful Dustbuster to assist your above floor tasks. It has a slide power adjustment to reduce air flow when delicate objects are being cleaned. It has S class filtration for your allergies.

While not as lightweight as the Oreck or Simplicity Freedom it has tools where the other two need a second vacuum. And has much better filtration. If carried by the side handle it's weight is more distrbuted or you could easily take the powerhead off when carrying.

The Miele, while a great machine is way too costly when a 236 powerhead is added.

The Dyson is closer to the Sebo in weight but does not offer the allergy filtration of the Felix and the tools are complicated for some users.

The only down side might be the price at $550 in store and $599 on-line. BUT you get a quality machine with a great warranty and a network of in store repair. (Ask what you have to go through to get a Dyson repaired).

I would like to recommend the Simplicity or Oreck because they are made in the US and the Sebo is German. BUT if you have to send money out of this country it is better to send it to a developed nation that does not pay semi-slave wages nor takes US jobs. Germany also has a good ecological record that supports wind and solar power vs sending the money to Southeast Asia where it will contribute to higher oil prices.

Lucky1:

Good point about the lack of attachments on the Oreck.  For $150, I only received the XL Classic Deluxe.  No Oreck compact canister, generally a give-away with the purchase of the upright for $299.  I use a HOOVER Cann for $50 I purchased from BEST BUY.  But my daily vacuuming of the floors and rugs, including under the furniture and beds, is with the Oreck upright.  Once a week I take the H- cann out for other cleaning.

Some vacuum users like me prefer not to have the additional weight of the attachments on board for daily cleaning with the upright alone.  Again, all a matter of personal preference, needs and wants.

And I like the ORECK because its made in the USA by Americans and has been for 45 years.  Keep jobs here.  Hoorah!

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

If you double the price you are buying the attachments.  They are not free.  However, one can manipulate the words and screw the consumer.  That is the good old American way isn't it.

And to think that you call JD misleading. 

Carmine, I'm curious how you were able to snag an Oreck for only $150, even without the useless hand vac (good move BTW on not falling for the bowling-ball hype and purchasing that piece of $#%*).  Do tell, please, as I never thought it was even remotely possible for even the BOL Classic as you purchased, unless there was some sort of "buddy deal" involved.  I'm assuming you purchased this at an Oreck store?  Are you friends with the owners/manager there?

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

I inquired at a local Oreck store if I could get credit = to the freebies that come with an Oreck.  I was given an emphatic no.

$300 to $700 for a $25 vacuum.  No way.

I mentioned in the past and even in my review on this page.  I donate to the Humane Society of the US.  Oreck is a supporter of many worthy causes including the Humane Society of the US.  Last April I received an offer from Oreck in concert with the US Humane Society to buy a new Oreck XL Deluxe Classic for $150 plus shipping.  I bought.  I liked it so much I subsequently purchased 3 more at the same price and gifted them away to family members [with very different households].  All are pleased.

I met Dave many years ago when I had my vacuum store.  He had more hair then.  I liked him and still do.  Despite the personal friendship, I did not sell new Orecks when I had my store.  Repaired them, sold parts, and sold them used/rebuilt. 

I have never asked for/received a discount from Oreck for any of my purchases.  Not even a senior citizen discount.  Or industry discount.  Business is business. 

Carmine D.

Carmine,

Let's say (hypothetically speaking) I wanted to buy a new BOL Oreck for $150.  Would I just call the Humane Society and inform them of my donation so I can take part on this deal as well?  In addition to that, how much of a donation would I need to make if I wanted to take part on this deal? 

If said deal does not exist, stating that *you* were able to purchase the machine for $150 is a moot point when no one else can, and only serves to steer prospective customers *away* from the Oreck after learning otherwise.  By the way, it is a well-known fact that Orecks are NOT sold in ordinary vac shops.  They are sold in Oreck stores and Oreck stores alone, only competing with Dave Oreck himself for the customer.  The plain and simple truth is that if Orecks were carried at vac shops alongside other brands for the advertised list prices, not *one* would sell due to the presence of many better (and generally less expensive) alternatives.

-MH

My goodness, I certainly have come to the right place.
Thank you so much, everyone, for taking the time to give all this advice and share your expertise. All of the information is helpful--of course my husband and I have bought vacuums over the years, but never with much forethought or knowledge! We've slowly learned that it's only when you get a vacuum home and use it that you realize all its pros and cons. I appreciate everyone's input.

Thank you MH, I especially appreciated your detailed and informative analysis of the whole shebang. Especially the business re brushroll shutoff, and the comparison of different bagless emptying mechanisms. And recommendations. Very helpful indeed.

Thanks Carmine( you vacuum DAILY??? I am impressed. Or perhaps everyone does, oh dear...) for insights on Oreck and reminder that I can try it free for 30 days.

I'm grateful, HS, for your comments on the Dyson, esp re its performance on bare floors.

Lucky1, thanks for more details on Sebo Felix.

I think that's everyone who has replied so far. Now I have to process all the information, and try out some of the vacuums before deciding.

Thanks again.
C.

The US Humane Society made the offer to donors through an arrangement with Oreck.  In writing. There was no limit on the quantities purchased.  My sense from my taxes in 2006/2007 is that we contribute less than $100 in a series of monthly/quarterly checks. 

Oreck has about 500 stores nationwide.  Most of the parts and repairs are on non-Oreck brand vacuums.  Oreck also has a nationwide network of independent vacuum stores/dealers who are authorized to sell new Orecks.  Makes sense if the 500 Oreck stores can sell parts and repair all vacuum brands [even your fave brand], then independent vacuum stores can sell new Orecks.  My dear Wife, who fell in love with the 8 pound Oreck upright, saw it demo-ed at a vacuum store that had 6-8 name brand vacuums including your fave brand.

If a prospective buyer can't snag [my word] a new Oreck XL Classic for $150, and doesn't want a 3 year guaranty and the extras for $299, then a used Oreck is a definite possibility.  They are available from Oreck stores and independent vacuum stores [with a guaranty].  And also estates sales are an excellent source of used Orecks.  Orecks sell for as little as $25-$50 at estate sales.  And belt and bag changes are quick and simple and readily available.   I know many people who have purchased Oreck in these ways and are thrilled and satisfied.  Orecks sell themselves and last a lifetime

Christine:

I vacuum daily without missing.  I have a yellow English lab that sheds year round and I live in the desert [LV].  When you vacuum daily, 1500 square feet of floors and rugs combined, the 8 pound Oreck is a well appreciated tool.  If I were to do the same with a full size vacuum [and I have] 3 herniated disks in my back would keep me permanently in pain.  BTW, I'm about to add another 4 legged family member [from the humane society].

I also spend an hour every day in my garden, save a few cold winter days which are few and far between in the desert.  Both practices are the secret of my longevity.  Plan to publish a book with all the details.  I'll sell it for $10 per copy [autographed copies a $1 more].  Donate the proceeds to a worthy cause.  Maybe even the dyson engineering school?

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

This must be a trait or policy of your local store.  When I was shopping for a lightweight back in February, I too enquired about just the vac prices.  He offered to take $100 off the price.

When one is shopping, everything is negotiable or they don't have a sale.

MH, I just want to add that Orecks are indeed sold in my local vac store alongside other brands, including all, I think, of those that have been recommended on this thread.

I will be going in soon to check them out...

Carmine, now I understand why you vacuum daily (and why I don't have pets except a non-shedding cat!). I too have disk problems, and other aching joints, that's why I need a light weight machine.
I hadn't thought of used/reconditioned as an option--an idea to ponder.

Thanks again, everyone.
Christine

Hi Christine,

Another person informed me that older dealers who sold Oreck before the "Oreck store exclusive" policy went into effect can still purchase the traditional-style uprights, so I stand corrected on that.  You could also be seeing rebuilt machines as well, which, in that case I definitely wouldn't rule out but not before I tried the other brands first.  If you're dead-set on an Oreck the best bet is to find a good deal on a rebuilt higher-end machine such as an XL21 at a reputable shop.  It will give you the same performance as a new machine, but being used it will also have depreciated somewhat and you won't suffer the "sticker shock" from a new one.  Orecks *are* ridiculously overpriced for being such simple machines that seem inexpensive to manufacture. 

Again, good luck and let us know what you come up with,
-MH

Before you buy the overpriced Oreck, look at the new Riccar SupraLite and Simplicity Freedom with the metal brushroll and permanent poly V belt.  This machine also has a belt protection system that will shut the machine off if anything jams the brush.  You will find this machine to clean better than the Oreck and youll never have to change a belt.   Just a thought.

In the current economic environment, a savvy vacuum shopper can probably snag  a new Oreck upright for considerably less than the standard sticker prices.  As Just pointed out, the Oreck store where he shopped recently lowered the price by $100.  The US Humane Society in concert with Oreck offered the XL Classic DeLuxe for $150 plus shipping.  Independent vacuum stores will probably do the same [lower the prices on new and used Orecks] to be competitive with the Oreck stores.  So shop smart.  By all means consider/test every lightweight brand mentioned before buying. 

If buying American is important, the Simplicity/RICCAR brands are home grown [I believe but worth verifying] and as Vacuuman and others said these are excellent rug/floor performers.  But there is only one original.  When it comes to lightweights, it is Oreck: 8 pounds. 

Like all household products, our own personal preferences and needs must be factored into the purchase decision.  Why?  They count as much as performance/service in determining whether we like/dislike the product and use regularly with enthusiam. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

Sounds an awful lot like McDonald's! 

And sounds like a successful marketing strategy.  Wonder if other vacuum makers considered?  Probably too late for most.  Here's how it works.  First, you go with the established business stores/people in the industry.  Authorize/franchise them for your products.  Then, over time [and with the assistance of money from profits and revenues] you open exclusive stores and put in place a nationwide network of your own.  Sounds like a win win situation for all.  Most especially if you plan to be in the business for the long term.  What's Oreck going on now:  Close to 50 years in the USA?  How old is McDonald's?  About the same, maybe a little more? 

I think that may have been the subject of the discussion that Dave and I had many years ago.  If my memory serves me correctly.  It doesn't always. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Excellent analogy.  McDonalds products are mediocre at best.  Just like when they started years ago.

Marketing strategy/hype is great for sales of an inferior product. but not for the consumer.

CarmineD wrote:

This does not sound like a bargain.  What do you suggest one do if they purchase the $150 Oreck sans the tools? 

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HARDSELL:

I use a HOOVER Cann I purchased at BEST BUY for $50.  That mostly spends time in the closet.

The Oreck is out in my study/office and gets used daily.

Carmine D.

Christine

A couple of items to note when comparing the Lower priced Oreck's with the Simplicity Freedom.

1 The aluminum neck on the Oreck tends to wear differently than the metal screws holding it. After a while the neck starts to wobble. They almost always come into the shop needing to be tightened or worse case need to be replaced. The Freedom has a round neck that stays in place.

2 The Freedom has a bigger Fan than the Oreck

3 The roller on the Oreck has long SOFT bristles. Some people find it hard to push on thick carpeting. The Freedom has a short STIFF bristle roller. When comparing the two you MUST try them on the same style carpet you will be vacuuming.

4 The Oreck has four wheels on the underside. The Freedom has six.

5 I like the Hepa CLOTH bags that are available for the Freedom. I know Oreck has a paper hepa bag but I don't know if Oreck has cloth.


Another poster mentioned a Metal roller & auto shut off. I am not aware of these features on the Freedom but I don't know alot of things! Those features are available on the Synchrony and Synergy lines. They are WAY TOO HEAVY for your requirements.

Lucky

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I apologize for the off vacuum subject but this is somewaht related.  McDonald's is the only FAST FOOD chain that advertises during the Saturday morning kids' shows and cartoons.  It spends about $2 Million a DAY in advertising.  Appealing to the kids who in turn influence their parents where to eat.  I'm a fan of both: Mac's and cartoons.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

Lucky 1:

All excellent points for comparison.  IMHO.  Oreck has a HEPA Celoc hypo-allergenic paper.  This may be comparable to the HEPA cloth like bags.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

No apology is necessary.    Your vacuum choices ars so amusing that it is no wonder that you like cartoons.

CarmineD wrote:

I am cedrtain that every home owner would prefer 4 or 5 vacuums cluttering their home as opposed to only one that does the same duty----better.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I read the comics daily too.  I just enjoy a good laugh and finding humor in all things.  Like you and your posts.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Not I, with only 2, unlike you.  I have an Oreck upright and a HOOVER cann.  Both lightweights and compact and use less electricty [4 amps/8 amps respectively].  I also have a 2 pound HOOVER Slider for quick pick me ups.  And of course, the HOOVER Floorwasher [which resides in the garage]. 

Now, if my memory serves me: You currently have a Royal Eminence and a Kirby Sentria and a Rainbow and [before you sold it after using 2 years] a dyson DC07.  Four super heavyweights in price and pounds and power usage.  And you made some inquiries here about a Swivel vac.  Sound familiar?  Your post fits you perfectly.

Which do you use for quick cleans and attachments?

Carmine D.

Gosh so much more info, mind is starting to boggle...!<BR><BR>Thanks for the notes on Riccar/Simplicity-- I see that this was well-rated by Consumer reports in their latest survey. <BR><BR>(I wish they had rated the new light-weight Dyson. And they don't seem to mention Oreck at all, unless i missed it as have only glanced quickly so far...i expect reasons for this have been already discussed in these pages at length. Anyway, you guys, with all your detailed info, are more than making up for any oversights by CR! ).<BR><BR>MH, thanks for your suggestions--I'm not &quot; dead-set&quot; on an Oreck, but it appeals because of the lightweight factor; however I'd certainly try other lightweight brands before deciding. The rebuilt route is an idea.<BR><BR> Lucky, I do appreciate your comparison of Freedom and Oreck--most informative.<BR><BR>I should add that I will not be making this purchase alone but with my husband. I didn't mention any price restrictions when I originally put out my question, because I wanted to see what you guys came up with....but, sigh, price restrictions may well come into the final decision!<BR><BR>Christine<BR><BR><BR><BR>

Edited to add, I know I have already had a very good review of the lightweight Dysons from MH, not ignoring that, or any of the other suggestions here. Consumer Reports is always useful though as a (supposedly) objective and unbiased authority.

March 2008 is the first time in recent and past years Oreck was not rated by Consumer Reports.  Until then, Oreck always made CR's top 10-15 in ranks with good ratings for carpet cleaning and excellent ratings for floors. 

I opined recently that I thought Oreck was excluded in March 2008 because it tried to get one of its newer/less expensive models [$399] rated/ranked but was preempted by time.  Just my opinion.

Carmine D.

Sorry about gobbeldy-gook above, I tried to edit and that's what happened.

Christine

Consumer Reports has rave user reviews about the Riccar Supralite which has also been recommended highly in this discussion, along with Simplicity Freedom.

I haven't looked at the machines themselves yet, but want to ask a question:

MH has pointed out the importance of brushroll shutoff for bare floors, otherwise the brush throws the dust around.

Am I right in understanding that neither the Riccar Supralite or the Simplicity freedom has this feature?

Have those who like these vacuums used them on bare floors, and what was their performance?


Christine.

CarmineD wrote:

I have 3 vacuums as you state.  Any of the 3 will do it all.  A used vacuum is worth pennies for the $ it cost so I will keep the Rainbow.  I use it as a shop vac only.  I used it for a few years when I washed out my boat.  It is perfect for vacuuming water from a ski well and the carpets.  If your Hoover cann is so good why do you use the Oreck or vice versa.  I saw the swivel on TV and just wondered how experience compared with the ad.  I suppose it is like Oreck, all hype and poor performance.

If amps really do matter as most manufacturers advertise, (particularily Hoover which you have ranted about so often) then your 2 vacs must perform poorly.  I use more electricity with my home theater than a vacuum could begin to use.  The cost to operate a 4 amp vs a 12 amp to vacuum 1500 sq. ft. would only save a fer cents a month.  I would rather know that my house is clean and that my carpet will not wear prematurely due to using an inferior vac.

I use the Royal for quick cleans.  The Kirby is like the transformer toys.  You have to convert from upright to cannister to use the hose.  Of course you know that.

christine wrote:

It is so good in fact that Carmine quotes it regularly------if it reports what he wants to hear.

I kbw that CR awarded a pasenger van a best buy because it had so many cup holders.  That certainly helps a vehicle to sell for $30,000.

They also give high marks to televisions, speakers and associated components that are laughed at among the people who know how unrealistic the report is. 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

The Oreck is for rugs and floors.  Cost $150.  The HOOVER Cann for attachment cleaning cost $50.  The Slider for quick cleans cost $25.  Each peforms well for the assigned task.  $225 total.

If any of your 3 super heavies can do it all, why did you buy more than 1?  I'll answer for you because I like you.    

At one time, one vacuum was the norm for an American household.  That is no longer the case and hasn't been for decades.  Most US households today have multiple full size vacuums/stick/hand vacuums/lightweights.  Each suited for particular cleaning tasks/needs.  Just as you and I do. 

I must say less vacuum weight is the latest now.  And while ramped up amps was all the rage in years past, now the mantra is "less is more" and social responsibility for the environment [going green/energy conservation].  David Oreck recognized both concepts early on and captured/locked in on the market long long ago.  The others are imitating and playing catch up.

Carmine D.

 

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Like I always tell you, Consumer Reports is a guide and a reference source not the gospel.  The experts and pro-s in the vacuum industry are the authoritative sources of the best vacuums for the money.

Carmine D.

OK my question about riccar supralite/simplicity freedom has been partially answered by my discovery that the Riccar RSL4 model has a "SQUEEGEE for bare floors."

The Riccar RLS3 doesn't seem to, not does the Simplicity Freedom as far as I can ascertain.

So: does this squeegee improve performance on bare floors, even if you still can't shut off the brushroll?

C

christine wrote:
The Freedom F3600 has a squeege.
It weighs 8 lbs

The Dyson Slim is 15.5 lbs

The original post was for specific requirements and the Dyson did not fit those: weight, cost, location of manufacture.
Maybe your needs differ. Would a canister be a better fit?

My requirements are different from those of the original poster-in my first post i explained that lightweight is my first requirement.
Also not $#%*bersome and easy to manouever.

I've always felt canisters were a bit $#%*bersome to use and difficult to store. But everyone says canisters are better than uprights for a mainly-bare-floors situation like mine. And now i have been to the vac shop, i might change my mind.

There's a tiny miele canister--carina (seems same as the antares, recommended here earlier) --which seems very light (14 lb) and easy to use, doesn't have brushroll at all but good enough suction (and variable suction level and motor speed) for my low-pile rugs.

So after all my anti-canister protestations, I am seriously considering it!

They only had the 3300 and 3500 Simplicity Freedoms--wonderfully light weight. But no squeegee--so some dirt did fall back at one's feet but a couple of passes seemed sufficient to deal with it on bare floor.

I didn't bring baking soda though as recommended by someone here! actually the salesperson says this would clog the machine (any vacuum) anyway...

The caveat mentioned by the salesperson is that if you vaccum up a coin or screw or similar object--which could so EASILY happen in my house!!--it could get sucked into the works and damage fan and/or motor. What do people think about this?
Same danger with an Oreck, apparently.


They don't yet have the dyson 24 or 25, I'll have to look at those elsewhere.

C.

christine wrote:

If baking soda damages the vacuum then you should not buy it.  It will not harm the Dyson.

I think the salesperson thought you were going to spread the baking soda all over the floors at your house and vacuum it, which would make a mess and clog ANY vacuum (yes Dyson too).  The higher end Freedoms do have the squeegee on the nozzle so they can be used on bare floors.

Vacuuman wrote:

Do you think Capture would clog these vacuums?

Vacuuman wrote:
Vacuumin:

Dyson vacuums do not clog under this situation AS LONG AS the test substance is picked up deliberately and slowly from an even surface.  I've vacuumed various clogging substances off of both carpets and bare floors with my DC21, and each time the suction and airflow remained constant.  If you just put the hose into a bucket of Capture or large pile of baking soda and expect the machine to inhale all of that at once, of course the pre-motor filter is going to get dirty, and in some situations, yes, clog.  The key is to let the machine take in AIR as well, so the cyclones can effectively separate the test substance.  This can be applied to ALL Dysons, both Root Cyclone and Level 3...there's a limit to everything.  No vacuum is perfect, yet, although I have to admit that Dyson comes pretty damn close in terms of constant, uninhibited performance.

-MH

Motorhead,

You nailed it, having fast moving air is crucial.        DIB

Hello Vacuuman:

I think you nailed it.  Doesn't the dyson manual make some caveats for the users about fine dust resutling from wall board and plaster?  I thought I read that somwhere, and may have to take a another look to verify. 

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

I know from experience that the Dyson will not clog with Capture.  I have also used a Dyson to vacuum an unfinished that had years of dirt and dust accumulated.  No problem.

I previously suggested taking the baking soda to an Oreck store.  They have no hose so it should be a good test to sprinkle it on a bare floor to see how Oreck handles fine dust.  My bet is that it will blow the baking soda across the room.

HARDSELL wrote:

Hello HS:

I know most vacuums that are working right won't clog with capture.  What's the issue?

Baking soda is a bogus and ridiculous test.  I didn't realize you mentioned it HS.  Shame on you.  Who vacuums up baking soda in large quantities in their homes?  Maybe a spill or two at best.  And if spilled in large amount, like potting soil or anything else, isn't the logical clean up to remove the bulk by manual means [old fashion broom and dust pan] and then pull out the vacuum for the rest?  Most normal people would do that in their homes.  There may be an idiot who will do it all with the vacuum.  Unfortunately, they still don't require IQ tests to identify idiots before they buy vacuums. 

Baking soda is the stupidest thing I heard of since some local yokel suggested vacuuming up burning ashes from a grill/fireplace as a valid vacuum test.  What moron would do such a dim-witted thing let alone publicly suggest same to others as a test for a vacuum?  If you read vacuum manual, all the manufacturers advise against it.  ALL.  No exception.  Not even your fave brand.

There is enough natural occurring household dirt and dust available in most homes to put vacuums to the test without concocting idiotic tests out of ludicrouscy.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

I have to assume I hit a nerve because your Oreck fails the test.  If you were intelligent you would know what I am suggesting.  I never said to dump a box of soda on the floor.  I said sprinkle soda on a herd surface and watch the Oreck blow it away without picking it up.

Any fool knows that a Dyson will not clog when used by an intelligent person.  You were basking in glory when another fool calimed clogging while vacuming up leaves. This was justification to remove the 'no loss of suction' claim---in a fools mind.

The stupidest thing that I ever heard is an old fool suggesting that Hoover or Oreck is better than Dyson.

HARDSELL wrote:

You're right.  Consumer Reports, Good Housekeeping, the Rug and Carpet Institute of America and just about every other vacuum industry source recommends a HOOVER and Oreck over dyson.  These have been around for quite awhile.  But unfortunately you have to be able to read/comprehend English to understand them.  That would leave idiots like you at a loss.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

You hit a nerve alright.  It's the one that says give that man a big idiot sign so others know he's coming.  You can't read so you'll probably think it's a price tag and hope some one buys you and gives you a home.  I suggest a locked cage where you can't hurt yourself by doing dumb things.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

It is very apparent that you have fallen out of the boat AGAIN.  You keep using those same references over and over.  Consumers do not seem to agree with them or you.  In real world useage those vacuums seem to fail the comsumers expectations.  Research and you will find far more satisfied Dyson owners.  Others say that although they could not afford Dyson it is their preference.  Both Dyson owners and non owners recommend Dyson when advising others who are seeking advise on a new purchase.   Other than you and a few other indies no one mentions those references that you keep repeating.

You have told us that unit sales (market share) are more important than $ sales while I have contended that profits are more conducive to paying the bills.  Hoover sold more units than Dyson (per you).  Hoover failed financially and Dyson is still financially strong.  Who is the idiot here?

It is only my assumption that Hoover sold more boxes than Oreck.  Selling a $50 vacuum for $300 to $700 has to be very profitable for Oreck  regardless of units sold.  Perhaps ole Dave shares my view of sales since he hasn't failed financially as has Hoover.  We could also add Kirby to the high $ sales over units sold.   While we are at it why not include all those super expensive European models that the indies sell fewer of and make more profits on.

Have a nice day.

CarmineD wrote:

I can see that you do not  like to lose. 

You have said that you plan to buy another Dyson.  I do not plan to buy another Oreck or Hoover. 

HERE'S YOUR SIGN.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

W-R-O-N-G!   I said I would test the new dysons and determine if they were worthy of buying.  I did and they weren't which I made very clear several times.  The only dyson I agreed to accept is a free DC25 that several marketing researchers have been trying to force on me for free for the last 4 weeks.  But since you don't read/comprehend English, you're at a loss again.

I can take credit [blame] for being open minded enough to believe that after making vacuums 6 years here and 25 years in the UK, dyson just might eventually market a vacuum for US consumption that is worthy of the ridiculous sales prices.  As opposed to you.  You say that just because my Oreck devours pounds of sand every week from living in the desert, I have to see if the Oreck will pick up baking soda.  The former isn't valid but the latter is a real vacuuming test. 

No friend.  You keep the sign.  You earned it fair and square!

Carmine D.

Hey,  Boys please keep it coming,i really could use the amusement today.

GIT- ER- DONE........

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

I am intelligent enough to know that in the last 3 years since I tried an Oreck there have been no improvements to them.  No need to try their electric brooms again.

Dust and sand are both realistic in homes.  I do not have sand.  Unfortunately I do have a lot of dust on my wood floors so it is more important to me that my vacuum has the ability to suck it up and not blow it around the house.  I think that we have agreed before that there is no ONE vacuum for all.  I just happen to believe that Dyson is better as a one for all.  Oreck requires two vacuums to do it all (as best it can).

I suggested soda as a substiute for dust since it is more readily available than dust.  Are you now saying that sand (former) isn't valid but soda (latter) is?

Since I can't read I hope that my interpreter is quoting you correctly in order for me to properly respond.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I have no baking soda in my entire house and haven't for years.  Give me one reason why I should.  Maybe I should replace the sand in my grand daughters' sand box in my back yard [sand is free here in the desert] with oh....I don't know what would you say 5,000 to 10,000 boxes of baking soda at 50 cents a pop.  So the grands and the dog can trek baking soda into the house rather than sand.  My Oreck can devour it instead of the sand.  Sand is the culprit that wears out rugs and carpets anyway.  More so than baking soda.  And I can talk all the friends and neighbors into doing the same, and before you know it LV will have the market in baking soda cornered. Then we can charge $120 a box so idiots can test their vacuums using baking soda before buying.  Wonderful idea.

I like the Oreck so much I bought 4 and gifted 3 to others, who also rave about them.  You like the dyson so much you brag about it in every post but you don't own one.  You owned one for 2 years.  After the warranty was over, you sold it.  I asked you why you don't buy another dyson since you always brag about how great it was.  What did you tell us?  In 5 different posts at different times?  You don't want to pay the high price for a dyson.  Dah?  Sound familiar?  I've been telling you the exact same thing for years.  But you're at a loss to understand.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, Capture DOES in fact clog vacuum cleaner bags.  People who have previously used Capture to clean their carpets pick quite a bit of leftover powder up with their just-purchased Dysons. 

Baking soda is neither bogus nor ridiculous.  The only thing "bogus" and "ridiculous" is calling you an "expert", which you are not.  Baking soda is often used as a carpet deodorizer, which explains why there are many carpet deodorizers out there that claim to have baking soda as an active ingredient.  Baking soda does *not* clog vacuum cleaner bags or filters, in fact the only thing baking soda *will* do is prove how ineffective the Oreck is at bare floor cleaning. 

Vacuuming up ashes from a barbecue grill or fireplace was designed by a true expert to TEST THE LIMITS of a vacuum's filtration system.  Of course any average cleaner is going to clog, that's what it was designed for.  The question is, though, how much can it handle before it *does* clog?  Only a moron would suggest picking up BURNING ashes, there is a clear difference.  Our expert did not say that.  But leave it up to you to make those inane assumptions.  Again, more ramblings from the mouth of a blithering idiot. 

The only reason any vac shop owner would recommend an Oreck is because they ultimately profit from the sales of bags, belts, and fans.  A true rip-off artist would undoubtedly recommend an Oreck with their extremely high priced vacuum bags.  At wholesale, an 8-pack of Oreck bags costs $4.86 and sells for $25 retail.  The belts cost 27¢ and retail for $3 apiece.  The fans cost $6 and retail for $40. 

Most regular vac shops who sell Orecks (before the Oreck-store exclusive policy went into effect) have them nailed to the floor...

-MH

Well, as MH, after giving such kind and lengthy help (along with some others), asked me to let you know what I bought in the end, here's the answer: I --we--chose a Miele Carina.

I know I said I wasn't very keen on canisters--and in fact, I wasn't. This meant everyone here spent a lot of time on analysing uprights for me--please don't feel it was wasted--it was very helpful and enabled us to narrow things down, rule things out, and learn a lot in the process.

The Carina is so small and manageable, and not heavy--though not quite as light as Oreck or Simplicity. However it has crevice and upholstery tools, telescoping wand (so no bending as you vacuum), suction controls (so my lighter area rugs won't get sucked up), and it's not noisy. I always thought canisters were bulky but this doesn't seem to be, and you can clip the hose/head part to the body in a " park" mode when you stop vacuuming or carry it upstairs. As our rugs are all low pile, I hope the combination floor/carpet tool will be sufficient with just the suction, no brushroll.

The clincher was that the shop gave us $100 off for trading in our old broken Dirt Devil and there was a sale as well, so end price was $269 (plus tax) which we thought excellent.

Thanks again for all your help.

Christine

Motorhead wrote:

Thank you Motorhead.  After your uninvited interference above, you remove all doubt as to who is the local yokel that recommends the burning ash vacuum test.  As idiotic as baking soda which we all know naturally occurs in in all households every day.

Maybe you and HS should share the big idiot sign.  You're both worthy of the win! 

What was your authoritative source for 4 Million dysons sold in the USA, Mr. x-pert? 

Carmine D.

christine wrote:

Congrats on a great choice and price.  Miele-s are known in the industry for lasting on average 20 years.  Enjoy using your new purchase.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I will give yu reasons why I use baking soda.  You can decide if they benefit you.  1.  Great for removing grease off my stove, especially the back where the controls are located since it has a textured surface 2. Cleans grease off the range hood 3. Use in the dishwasher (especially when washing pots and pans 4. Leave open box in refrigerator to absorb odors.  5.  Use with vinegar as an all purpose cleaner and in drains to refresh them 5 It helps neutralize household odors  This could benefit you the most by eliminating the excrement odor of the bs  that you spew so abundantly.   There are so many more uses.

I already told you that I do not have sand in my home.  People do not buy play sand to refresh their carpet.  They do this with baking soda or products containing same.

Can't blame you for gifting all those Orecks.  I would give them away as opposed to keeping them.  I sold my Dyson because I felt that it was worthy of selling, whereas I would not stick a person by selling them an Oreck. 

I bought two different vacuums to play with, not because they are better than Dyson.  Hint :  they are not Oreck or Hoover.  Yes, Dyson is expensive, but worth the price to those who want one.  I also like Lexus better than the Ford that I drive.  I just have not decided to buy one yet.

I think that you know my purpose for using baking soda as a test for vacuum performance.  I know that the Oreck will fail and you have been defeated so many times in the past that you are grasping at straws to save face.

Hope you have a great afternoon at the asylum.

HARDSELL wrote:

You forgot one.  Inhale it to turn your grey matter to mush.  So you and the other local yokels like Motorhead can spout off about idiotic tests to concoct for vacuums.

I've got a test for you and MH for vacuums: Kapok.  Put that on your rugs and pass your dysons over it.  Then get a HOOVER, Oreck, Dirt Devil and/or any other vacuum cleaner on the market today and pick up in half the time and effort what all the dysons left behind.

Polish up your idiot sign. Motorhead needs to borrow it too.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I already did that when an old life preserver tore open in the attic.  Dyson worked like a charm.   Speaking of life preservers, you better wear one if you don't get back in the boat.  Waves are way over your head.

I do not know why I did not mention this earlier as all of my neighbors regularly spread it on their carpet.  None will volunteer why they keep doing this.

HARDSELL wrote:

HARDSELL:

Here's a very concept basic concept which you at a total loss to grasp:  I live in the desert in Las Vegas.  All around me is sand for miles and miles.  Not baking soda, not water and not boats!  Thank goodness for the lack of the last two!  I don't think my trusty Oreck XL Classic Deluxe can vacuum up either!  Think I should try?  

What state do you hail from?  The state of permanent confusion?  Can't be the great state of Tennessee!  That state claims such notables as Davy Crockett and the Tennessee Plowman!  Even Al Gore.  What happened to you?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

My bad.  The sun must have cooked your brain.

Actually I am related to Merle Travis.  I guess those 16 tons fell on me.  Two Tennesseans I would rather not claim are Al Gore and Phil Bredesen.

Congrats Christine I think you got a great vacuum and at a terrific price (is that dealer going out of business????). What part of the country do you live in if you don't mind me asking?

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Since you took the time to dream these up, I'll respond. 

For points 1 and 2:  My Wife and I take turns dusting the stove off from lack of use.  It's just us 2 and the pup.  And the pup is diabetic and requires a special diet.  Cooking on the stove has become an ancient female ritual. 

For point 3:  Go back to the answer to 1 and 2.  Since we don't cook, there is no need to turn on the dishwasher regularly.  We take turns running it once a month to ensure it is still operating. 

For point 4: Everything in the fridge is sealed.  There are no odors. 

For point 5:  We use common household cleaners made for the specific purpose.  Vinegar is used only for salad making and eating. We enjoy citrus fruits and throw the skins of lemons in the garbage disposal.  Accomplishes the same effect as the b/s and doesn't cost any extra.

For point 6:  Don't have any household odors.  Why?  I own and vacuum daily with the Oreck. We keep the dog clean and groomed in part by vacuuming with the HOOVER cann.  I have a special tool for the purpose.

Finally, the only time I detect an odor is when I'm reading one of your posts here.  Then I just scroll up/down to one of mine, and the air automatically is fresh and clean again.

I trust you get the jist of my thoughts on baking soda.  I think the substance is highly over rated.  Why?  To sell, of course.  I'm told the box costs more than the content.  Figures.  Who in their right frame of mind would ever go to the store to buy a box of baking soda?  It's a white elephant now-a-days.  Don't need it, don't want it.

Asylums are for people like you who buy things for trumped up reasons thinking they need it.  They are commonly called crazy!

Carmine D.

Thanks Lucky. The dealer isn't going out of business, has been there for years and will be I hope for years more. I live in North Eastern USA.

C.

christine wrote:
Hi Christine,

Congratulations on the new Miele, that to me is a fantastic machine for your situation.  And at $269 you really did get a good deal, the suggested retail for the Carina is $499. 

I do like the S4 Galaxy canisters (Carina, Antares, Orion, etc.), they pack a lot of power for their small size, are surprisingly maneuverable (much like all Mieles), and you can really fill the bag up before it needs to be changed.  The combination tool is a good suction-only rug tool, but you still might want to think about the turbo nozzle in the future depending on the amount of traffic your rugs receive.  Did you opt for the Parquet Twister floor tool by any chance?

Again, excellent choice, you will like the performance and (unlike most cleaners out there) it's built to last.  So plan on keeping that machine for at least 20 years.

-MH

CarmineD wrote:
Baking soda isn't an "idiotic" test.  The only reason you have a problem with it is because you are well aware that the Oreck will simply blow it back at your feet, much like the sand.  Having owned an Oreck before I cannot buy the fact that it picks up sand well on bare floors...mine had a hard enough time picking it up from the carpet!  Run a DC17 over your rugs if you want them to actually be CLEAN, after all it says on the machine "Outcleans all other vacuums."  It doesn't say "except the Oreck", or "except the" anything, it says ALL.  Then after you're done, give us the test results to prove it

And yes, I tried the kapok test with a 10-year-old DC07, and it picked all of it up beautifully. 

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

MH, you may have endless time during the day to spend vacuuming with a dyson.  I don't.  A pass or two with Oreck gets it all.  I don't have to go over it 8-9-10 times like I would with a dyson to get it all up.

With sand the primary outside environment here, if my Oreck did not remove it all from my floors and rugs, I wouldn't be using it for the last year and still.

Here's how I know Oreck gets it all.  Have you ever used a HOOVER Floormate?  What happens when you use and the floors are not completely vacuumed clean?  Right!  Very good.  When you do the wet-floor pick up for drying, the dirt and pet hair gets into the dirty water bin and infiltrates the filter.  In my case, SAND and lab hair.

I noticed whenever I use the Oreck first to vacuum the floors, then follow up immediately with the HOOVER Floormate to wash the floors and dry, there's no dirt/pet hair in the dirty water/filter.  Now that's a test MH that even you, with your limited and minimum level of knowledge, skill, and ability, can perform and judge for yourself.

Not as complicated as determining the source you used to come up with 4 Million dysons sold in the US in 2007.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

MH, the Parquet Twister floor tool wasn't offered, I know nothing about it; I just took the standard combination floor/carpet tool that comes with the Carina.

Have used the machine already and like it very much.

C

You picked a very good machine, and it sounds like you have a good dealer there for anything you need as well.  Its a great machine and should last you quite a while.

HS:

Whatever you did in your last post caused the screen to wrap around.  Unless the site admin used this technique to censure you.  

We take great pains here in the LV to use socially responsible products and care for the environment, due in large part to the lack of water, abundance of desert sand, and limited fauna and flora that can exist in the desert.  One of the many things I like about life and people here.

Carmine D.

christine wrote:

The name of the tool is "Parquet Floor Brush" SBB-3  It's designed for wood and tiled floors.  It has 2 soft rollers [rubber] for easy gliding action and dual 11 inch natural [horsehair] bristles that sweep gently over the floor surface, brushing dust particles out of cracks.  Miele recommends for low and medium pile carpet too as well as smooth surfaces.  A mainstay of the Miele tools.

Carmine D,

You did very well, at that price you should at least buy the dealer lunch and dinner,because he certainly did not make any money to buy his or her own.

This just confirms how bad things are at retail,the dealers are dropping like flies.Selling machines at cost is not very condusive to stay in business,I suppose they gave you the internet price?.

Then these companies wonder why the dealers feel the way they do......[rant for the day]........

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

I was surprised by the Miele price.  And the $100 trade in allowance for a Dirt Devil!!!! Perhaps it is a demo-display model.  If the poster goes back to buy the parquet brush, the store may make up for the low price on the vacuum. 

Carmine D.

Christine

The floor brush is the SBB 300-3. They also just came out with the Twister XL that's a monster of a brush (16" cleaning path!!!!!). I would NOT recommend either for carpeting. You probably couldn't push it on a carpet anyway.

I agree that price is VERY low.

Also got the word Vac prices are going UP!!!! Simplicity & Miele. That's Twice in 7 months for Miele.

Companies just don't get it yet... The answer has always been pass the cost of business onto the consumer. I'm afraid they all went to the well too many times. The Goose that laid the golden credit card has been slaughtered. The consumer is tapped out. Corporate greed, backed by Communism with near slave labor posing as Free World Capitalism is as dangerous to the American way as any other Terrorist organization and the oil companies should be threatened with nationalization for the safety and well being of America. (WOW do I sound like a raving Socialist!) But come on now!

This would be a perfect time for Simplicity's American made machines to LOWER their price. Stay entrenched with the indies and weather the storm. I think Miele is going to go Mainstream and get into BB& Beyond and Home stores maybe Target style stores as well, within the next 2 years. Phase out the smaller stores and get the Larger Appliance stores to make a bigger commitment.

Lucky1 wrote:

16 inches.  Wow.  That's as wide as most full size upright head nozzles.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1:

You may recall a month or so ago when word of the new Miele upright line was posted,

I said Miele is looking to dominant the US vacuum market. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Will they if they keep raising prices? The Chinese are cornering the market for low priced vacs, how soon before they squeeze out the Premium Brands?

PERFECT is only the start... next they will hire an Industrial Design Team and start making some contemporary looking vacs of some quality to move out the Germans. While keeping the Euro high now, it works good for the europeans against the dollar BUT it will have an effect on pricing their products out of the hands of the worldwide market. I don't know if that will be a good thing. The Japanese did it to the US and destroyed our manufacturing base...Will europe unwittingly follow suit?

The double economic whammy:  Recession and inflation simultaneously.  The high cost of oil translates to higher raw materials' prices for the vacuums and higher transportation costs to deliver the vacuums to market.  Manufacturers pass the price increases along to consumers who are already squeezed by the recessionary conditions.  Compounds the effects of the bad economic times.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine, I do not begrudge any one making a honest living, But enough is enough,lucky1 is right the whole industrial base has been stolen from us,and we just sat back and let it happen,Can it be turned around?

Its really a shame that all this is happening,while a choice greedy few,sit back and enjoy watching this,[our government],is a joke,

Doesnt make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that toyota, is now the #1 AUTO MAKER IN THE WORLD,WITH PLANTS HERE IN THE STATES,AND THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE GAVE THEM,REMEMBER THE JAPANEESE WALKING AROUND WITH THE POLAROID INSTAMATICS?.

MOLE

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

Let me think on this awhile.  I can recall these feelings and thoughts when the Japanese did the same [and still as the chinese now] in the 50's and 60's.  I'm sure you can remember too.  Capitalism at its best/worse. Look at China and its earthquake devastation.  Sad.  Industrial power and didn't have a back-up plan for a natural disaster.  It's pitiful how the authorities there are handling the matter.  Like our citizens with the aftermath of Katrina.  Who weathered it well?  ORECK and helped the needy in the process.  US grown.

You've heard the expression: What goes around comes around.  Toyota for the first time in years reported a quarterly loss.  Substantial.  Why?  It geared up for alot of new truck sales right at the same time as the gas prices soared.  Result:  They ain't selling their big trucks.  One of their mainstays.  And we already talked about toyota's recent quality concern issues pushing cars to market by cutting corners and time for quality assurance.  [Sound like a foreign vacuum brand discussed here alot.]

Small business owners like yourself weather economic cycles [good/bad] better than the big dogs.  Just keep on keeping on. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Toyota has been in the U.S. so long that they are beginning to think like Americans.  The domestic dealers have 10 new trucks or SUV for every new car on their lot.  As for quality.  The domestic manufactures are notorious for cutting corners on quality.  Compare recall of Toyota, Honda or Nissan vs domestic autos. 

Our economy is falling in part due to ignorant home buyers combined with greedy loan institutions and building contractors.  How do we blame this on another country? 

Could you be referring to the foreign made Hoover.  Remember how they cut corners and introduced another POS every few months?  Then closed a U.S. plant.   I also find it amusing that some criticize Japanese products which are generally superior in quality, yet they praise European products.  History shows that we have been enemies to both.  If you hate one then hate the other.

Remember how poor the domestic auto quality was until Datsun invaded?  Then Honda with their superior motorcycles forced Harley Davidson to improve their quality. 

Then we have at least one Wal Mart (China's best source of income) fanboy.

Hi H.S., you know what i totally agree with every word of your post.

Carmine your right on the money,It could be the collapse of the second roman empire.

I noticed a great quote,i think you know who said it. Americans will get it right after they fail at everything else to make it right.............

MOLE

Complacency breeds failure, it's human nature and there's a huge number of people in the far east who'd like the opportunity to better their position, both individually and as a nation. I doubt the situation would be any different if the roles were reversed.

Can't be long now, until China or India are sending their respective armies over to the west, to help keep order...

Well the problem I have mentioned is that we don't trade on a level playing field... in the name of so call "Free Trade" and "Capitalism". Yet we deal with countries with protective import duties and near slave labor forces. Companies are American when it suits them and International when it suits them...damnned to the American Worker and America.



The world laughs at our trade policies. While I agree Free trade is a positive thing...there has only been one worthwile trading partner that holds to our standards...US. That we were the biggest and richest consumers for the last 50 years but couldn't sell to our OWN MARKET is outright pathetic.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

You can't knock their stock performance.  Up over 20 percent so far this year.  Ahead of all retailers, hands down.  Liked their founder.  Have to wonder if he would approve of the direction the company has taken.  Put alot of Mom and Pop stores out of business.  Not their finest achievement by far.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:
Mole,

The Carina costs $185 at wholesale.  When you buy more than $3000 worth of Miele products at one time you get free freight.  If you do not buy more than $3000 worth at once the cost is $9 per machine to ship.  So the dealer, even if he had to pay freight, made more than $50 profit on the Carina, has a Dirt Devil that can be rebuilt and sold for $50, and has a lock on the Miele market.  He will continue to profit for the sale of those bags as long as she keeps her machine, and a very good profit at that.  There was no reason he had to sell the machine for more than what he did. 

I would call him an HONEST retailer.  He doesn't NEED to gouge his customers, unlike some Bosch and Simplicity dealers...

-MH

M.H. I agree with you about the wholesale and shipping deals,lets just hope that he has no overhead or sells 25 to 30 machines a week, more than likely figures he will make the money on the aftermarket,

Now that even miele has cooked its own goose,and the long green train ride is over for them,lets see if the  dealers start to revolt, lets see now i put out $205.00 to make 50 bucks,this is not even worth selling or give it shop space.Did he tell that customer that the machine was made in MEXICO,sounds like what hoover did all over again. B.T.W. mieles are sold at williams-sonoma,have been for years............

  MOLE

mole wrote:

You only agree because I am primarily discussing cars.

Let's give the buyer some credit for being a smart shopper and deal maker.  As business owners and operators, sometimes you make and take $50 profit on a vacuum, sometimes a $100.  ANd sometimes even more.  You have to know your customers and business.  One price does not fit all.

As the saying goes, you have to have a willing buyer and seller.  And sometimes that buyer is a better bargainer.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

And W-M's  $.95 a share dividend.  No doubt will be a dollar soon.  Is there another retailer that pays a dividend as much?  Stock appreciation of 20 percent and a 95 cents dividend!  What pays that rate of return on your investment?  Like them or loathe them, but you can't beat them.

Carmine D.