Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi all,

Following is a link to a news article regarding the up and down sides for Electrolux during this year's first quarter.

http://www.centredaily.com/business/technology/story/553091.html

Best,

Venson

Carmine:  You keep talking about court of law, there is a bigger court – the court of public opinion.  A very simple and easy to understand “side-by-side” Dyson ad campaign demonstrating the 2 vacuums, the 2 claims, the 2 companies and the 2 product launch dates.  Electrolux claiming what is not theirs to claim (that they pre-date all others) has it’s downsides in the minds of public opinion.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

I call the court of public opinion "street justice."  Kenneth J took dyson to court for his patent on the vacuum wheel facilitator.  Dyson copied Kenneth J's patent for the DC15 Ball.  Kenneth J lost in a court of law.  

Kenneth J was a engineering student when he patented the vacuum wheel facilitator in 1998.  In 2005 dyson launched the DC15 Ball, which Kenneth J recognized as his invention.  Kenneth J was no match for dyson's hot shot high priced NY lawyers with 3 names and 3 piece suits.  The case was dismissed on a technicality.  

The DC15 is the worse of all dysons according to commentary by many including Consumer Reports.   That's street justice.  Street justice tells me despite Mr. Dyson's persistence to win acclaim with the ball technology for his latest vacuums [DC24/25], these will meet with the same ignominious sales as the DC15. 

I think the court of public opinion counts for something.  That court is hoping that dyson proceeds legally against Electrolux.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You say Dyson copied this invention... in reality, they may or may not have done this.
But if the court has awarded in Dyson's favour, you can't really pass that off that as fact, can you?

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, your pretty gullible to take the word from someone you do not know (I’m assuming he was unknown to you prior).  What Kenneth J. said here (archives I’ve seen) and what he said in Federal Court under oath are two entirely separate things.   Make no mistake Kenneth and his team of lawyers going after Dyson only 22 days prior to the American launch of the DC15's was tremendous pressure applied to the end of getting money out of Dyson.  Dyson responded immediately (in 6 days) to Kenneth’s lawyers, then Dyson sued for clarification and NOT for revenge or other, Kenneth J. and his team countersued for potent revenues (money) made from the sale/s of the DC15 invention.  I do not like liars; I’m no fan of this so-called inventor.        DIB

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

I didn't say.  Kenneth J said.  In a court of law.  Which ruled against Kenneth J. on a technicality not the patent law. 

BTW, I neglected to mention [for those who don't recall] within 4 months of the DC15 Ball's launch in the USA in 2005, dyson was forced to drop the prices by $100.  From $699 to $599.  Now they're advertised for $499 and sold for even less.  Some may say to Kenneth J that he got street justice, not court justice.  Street justice: The court of public opinion.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Me, gullible?  No my friend.  I didn't take Tom Gasko's word without researching.  Did you?

I know enough about Kenneth J to say he is not lying in this matter.  The facts and circumstances are on his side.  

Unlike you, I never had courses in mind/heart reading so I can't say what motivated Kenneth J's actions other than he patented the invention before dyson.  Some might say FIRST.  In your court of public opinion, like you said above, that counts for something.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

My good man,

I do thank you for the compliment of being able to read minds when in fact I cannot.  This is how I came to my conclusions….  1)  Read the patent and claims 2) Read what he posted on the prior site (that is archived), then I compared what he said to…  3)  What Federal Court documents/complaints (sworn statements) with regard to Dyson v. Kenneth and then the Kenneth v. Dyson countersuit, the countersuit spells out that Kenneth was damaged and therefore wants to be “adequately compensated for damages sustained”.  The Kenneth J. patent filing date of 1996, and seemingly has not made money off his patent outside of potential future moneys by suing Mr. Dyson.  How did you come to your conclusions?

 

Make no mistake, I give the guy credit for the articulation nozzle (assuming he was first to invent this).  He was not close to the DC15 ball mechanism, but was close to inventing the DC18 type ball mechanism.  But without the center barrel shaped/spherical type wheel the widget/vacuum can’t lean/turn nearly as easy as if it was riding on…  well a Dyson barrel shaped/spherical type wheel.  Dyson brought to the market a line of highly steerable, pivotable upright vacuums and he looks to be making much profit from these, despite yours and/or other vacuum dealers and/or enthusiast’s objections.        DIB

 

P.S.  FYI, I very rarely use the “L” word for it is a very strong word indeed.

CarmineD wrote:

Technicality?  No.  If my memory is correct Kenneth spoke of the differences being - his widget had 2 wheels vs. Dyson's single ball wheel.  Kenneth too narrowly defined his widget in his claim (as having 2 wheels only).        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

My compliments.  You did excellent research and presentation.

I will respond in kind calling upon your words [paraphrased] with Electrolux and dyson. 

One or two [ball wheels/recycled models], first is first!   Dyson  claiming what isn't his.  Kenneth J invented and patented the vacuum wheel ball facilitator as an engineering student over 9 years before the DC15 Ball launched.  First counts for something in the court of public opinion even if it does not matter in a court of law.   The court of public opinion is bigger than the court of law.

I rest my case. 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

Yes, dyson did indeed.  First in 2005 with the DC15 Ball.  Worse of the upright dysons by most here [From $699 to $499 before discounts] .  Then 2007 with the DC18 Slim [$469 to $399 before discounts].  Next worse of the upright dysons based on the latest Consumer Reports ratings in March 2008.  The DC18 is currently discounted on clearance by most big box retailer stores.  Again in 2008 with the DC24/25 ball upright dysons.  [$399 and $499 to ???]. 

I get the distinct impression that dyson admittedly just can't get the ball vacuum wheel technology right.  Too bad about Kenneth J and dyson.  Kenneth J may actually be able to help dyson out.  Manufacturers of household appliances build in a 7 year obsolescence period.  By dyson's own record, he's shooting for a year.  I think the only thing he's shooting is his foot. 

This is street justice and not court justice.  In some cases, perhaps this is one, street justice is better served than court justice.

Carmine D.