Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

No area rugs, carpet what so ever. Just wood floors... What would you suggest?

Hello Ace:

Is this a hypothetical question or real life?  If it's real life, I have to know a tad more to answer with one make/model?  If it's a hypothetical, I can answer and give caveats.

Carmine D.

I can't really name you a best, because the term best often gets us into trouble.  What I would suggest in your case since you only have hard surfaced floors and no carpets would be a straight suction canister.   I would really see no reason for you to lay out money for anything else as you don't have a need for a powerhead. 

What I would look for is a vac with a fairly long hose, and a nice wide floor brush.   You will need to make a decision between a bagged or bagless model.  If you are sensitive to dust and such you may want to look for a vac with better filteration.   When I purchased my Riccar Surpalite last month I saw the Riccar Sunburst cannister that I really liked, I just couldn't justify bringing home two new additions to the family.   You could also look at flea markets or used shops for used Electrolux or Filter Queens, both of these seem to be in abundance and are proven to serve well. 

I hope this helps?

Not really THE Best... Best for is want' I'm asking for wood floors... I don't think she's asking for one with a powerful beater-bar...

Hi Acerone,

The "best" solution to this issue is a simple -- any reasonably priced canister with a good bare floor tool.  Of course my next suggestion is go to Sears and look for a Kenmore  canister with the standard bare floor tool in its attachment set. 

Why?

Because, first, you'll probably come across some sale items that may place a slightly better than simple vacuum at a good price because of a markdown.  Next, I am a tool fanatic and I especially like the way the Kenmore standard bare floor tool is made because instead of of a brush strip all around its perimeter it has a single row of bristles that runs across the width of the tool plus a couple of shot strips at front and back.  Just about now someone is thinking, "He's got to be kidding."  I'm not.  My test for this came about while I was trying to loosen peeling paint on the ceiling just at the entry of my apartment.

The design of the Kenmore bare floor tool allows grit to be directly sucked up -- not pushed about before it's sucked up on forward and back passes.  Avoiding pushing grit around is the reason we vacuum bare floors instead of using a plain old broom.  The fussy feel the like spares the finish on wood flooring from additional wear while cleaning. In any event because I have so much junk around to mess with, I tried an Electrolux flip tool and also an old GE nozzle to loosen paint long ago applied to acoustic tile.  Both left me under a continuous shower of paint flakes as I tried to clean away the peeling before applying primer .  The Kenmore bare floor allowed the flaking paint to be easily sucked in to my vacuum with minimal fallout as I moved it back and forth overhead.

However, to be super practical -- which is best to do in this instance -- find any affordable canister you like that offers good service above the floor and go to your local vac shop to buy a bare floor tool that is to your liking.  You'll find standard and wide width tools to suit your needs for not a lot of money.

Expensive niche brands like, Miele, FQ, etc., provide lots of optional specialized tools that cost an arm and a leg but that are no more beneficial than a tool you can find at vacuum shop for a quarter of the price.

Best,

Venson

A central vacuum with no inlet valves,just vacpans......................

 mole

mole wrote:

Good friend Mole,

Most respectfully, vacpansdefeat the purpose of vacuum cleaning.  The broom sets dust to flying.  The vacuum, central or otherwise with a nozzle for the task is meant to pull whatever you go after into the system thus ridding the potential of rasing dust.  The centtral vacuum is meant to excel in that it not only sucks up stuff but also but also rids the home environment of very fine particulate matter that might be released during use of a portable vacuum.

I have never understood the vacpan.  Oh yeah, it might be useful for the quick removal of debris fallen nearby but why go through the expense if all that is to be is to fling dirt all through the house toward a hole in the wall?

The central vac as a dumpster would better serve us if developed to remove perishable waste -- flour, husks, etc. -- from counter areas.

Venson

If strictly for floors and no attachments needed for above the floor cleaning, I'd use an Oreck Classic XL for $200. On the floors the vacuum goes by itself. By the time you get the cann out and set it up, the Oreck has the job done.

If area rugs are added in the future, ORECK works great without adjustments and brush turn offs.

Carmine D.

I like the Miele 300 floor brush especially the way it swivels. You need only use your wrist instead of your whole arm and shoulders. It can get into really tight spaces. Unfortunately, if you haven't tried one you can't appreciate how it moves. You might need an adaptor depending on which Vac you purchase. They have also come out with a longer version (Which I have not yet seen).

Lucky1 wrote:

Hi Lucky1,

I've seen ti too and it's cool but Miele is asking $65.50.  It's better to put that kind of money in your piggy bank and save up for a whole new vacuum cleaner.

Following is a link to Miele's accessory page -- http://www.miele.com/products/accessories.asp?cat=1&subcat=1&menu_id=5&nav=21&oT=27

The price on the 236 power nozzle is considerably lower than I'd imagined but lesser items especially the air-powered nozzles and minor tools are way out of proportion.  Miele can get away with this simply because it's Miele.

Venson

Lucky1:

You shot the top of the line Miele made brush for $65 and the customer [Ace] says no way.  What's your fall back position to make the part sale and keep the customer?

Carmine D.

Any straight-suction canister would do well here.   Interesting that a few of you mentioned Miele as well, I was thinking the same thing.  Miele offers the straight-suction Naturell (same design as the S251 Plus except it's light yellow and only 1 speed) which would work great in this situation where the extra features wouldn't be necessary.  It ranges from $199 to $249 depending on the dealer, and has a 7 year warranty on the Vortex motor, great filtration, and is a fantastic machine overall for the price.  You just can't get any better.  The S4 Galaxy series would also be a good choice, but would be more expensive than the Naturell.  The Naturell isn't on the Miele website as it is the least expensive model, however, any dealer should have them. 

The Miele Naturell is the same price as an Oreck upright, except that unlike the Oreck it is actually *suited* to cleaning bare floors (I don't think throwing the dirt back at your feet can be considered cleaning, which I experienced with my Oreck on many occasions).  It's just a simple canister you can't go wrong with, and will last a lifetime. 

-MH

Motorhead wrote:

MH:

I've never experienced that problem with my Oreck, although I have with many other vacuums.  Generally when a vacuum has negative suction [throws the dirt back], it needs maintenance.  I do my own [bag, belt, etc] so my Oreck works as it should.  

Do you maintain/service your Oreck and/or bring it into the dealer for service?

The October 2007 Consumer Reports, the last to include Oreck in the vacuum ratings, gives Oreck and Miele the same rating for bare floors: Excellent.  I would agree that both are excellent.  Being an upright person myself, I prefer the Oreck.

Are you partial to uprights and/or tanks and canns?

While it is unorthodox based on conventional wisdom to use an upright on bare floors, Oreck goes against the grain of conventional wisdom.  Why? Two reasons come to mind.  The wheels [4, 2 back and 2 front] are rubber coated.  No scuff marks.  Bare floor tools [like the Miele without wheels] have brush hair that constantly get full of dirt and debris.  Have to be cleaned.  Like old fashioned brooms, these tools push alot of the dirt around before picking it up.  In the process getting alot caught up in the hair of the floor brush.  Obviously the push and pull on the hair wears it down and out in shape and function.  What does that cost to replace on a Miele?  The Oreck brush roll on barefloors will last forever and never need to be cleaned.  Just a belt change every 6-9 months [couple of bucks if you do it yourself] to keep the debris going into the vacuum and not out.

Carmine D.

I've always found that it's less about the vacuum you're using and more about the attachment on the end of the wand.  As mentioned earlier, the Kenmore tool works much nicer than most all bristle brushes simply because the brushes are moved to the center of the tool allowing all the debris to be picked up before hitting the brush.  Similar can be said for the Oreck and the Riccar Superlites.  My choice of tools is this Euro Combo which I think is made by Wessel Werk but I could be wrong. No brushes to mess up, runs on four non marking wheels and sucks straight to the edge of the wall. 

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine, it is obvious to me that you are grasping for credibility here and wanting your recommendation to be noticed.  In that case then, go ahead.  I believe that Acerone's friend *should* try the Oreck to see what he or she thinks of it.  After all, it's going to come down to what is *naturally* suited to the task. 

I like uprights as much as the next person, but yes, that IS unorthodox by most standards.  No one can tell me a direct-air upright with no brushroll shut-off will work better than a canister (one with both a damn good floor tool AND combination nozzle no less) on bare floors.  I've already seen what it can do (or can't do, for that matter).  And yes, I did change the bag on my Oreck regularly.  That did not make any difference, and only added to my frustration when it kept throwing pieces of cereal back at my feet, which a brushroll revolving at 6500 RPM will ultimately do.  If it didn't it would go against the laws of physics. 

I have to politely disagree with you on the "never need to be cleaned" remark.  ANY revolving brush, regardless of whether it is used on carpets or bare floors, will need to be cleaned eventually as there will always be har wrapped around it at the very least.  That goes without saying.  When it does need to be cleaned, chances are it will take a bit of work depending on how often it is checked.  Cleaning a bare floor tool, on the other hand, is simple if the user takes the time to do it after each use.  A quick swipe with the hose handle will remove all hair, debris, etc. and prevent it from looking like some people's hairbrushes.

That having been said, a well-engineered bare floor tool (like on the Miele, Dyson DC21, or Hoover Constellation) does not push dirt around.  Did you look at the picture of the Miele's bare floor tool?  The bristles on all three I mentioned are staggered for a reason which you will have figured out by the time you read this

-MH

For all bare floors, you need a canister that has a good bare floor brush.  If you want a really good one get either a Miele, Sebo, or Riccar/Simplicity.  They all have vacuums for this situation in the $200-600 range that will perform well and last.  You could get a canister for under $200, but with the way they are made they tend to be very loud and only last a few years.  I still say a good machine should last you at least 15 years in high use if well maintained.

Motorhead wrote:

Quite to the contrary.  I want all recommendations to be heard and considered.  You didn't mention if you changed the belt in the Oreck?  And who did?  Another cause for the negative suction.

I would also say that it does not come down to what is naturally suited for the task alone.  It also depends on the user's likes and dislikes, the user's budget and future decisions.  What's naturally suited for you is not for me.  That's why cars come in all different styles and colors.

If I were to buy and use a cann just on floors, my own personal and professional sense would be why should I purchase all the other tools if I never will use them?  Waste of money.  Maybe the buyer can trade the unused attachments for some more floor brushes?  Then, what happens if in the future, area rugs and throws are added?  A very likely scanario.  Is the cann still the best option?

Carmine D.

Dusty:

I like the tool you illustrated and agree that it would work well on bares.  Better than the conventional bare floor tools with the brushes all around.

I always wondered why vacuum makers put bristles on floor brushes.  Especially in more recent years.  Tradition is the best reason and to prevent scuffing the floors.  On bares, its suction that picks up the dirt and debris, not bristles.

Carmine D.

Surprisingly, no one has recommended a stick vacuum.  Certainly a viable option for bare floors depending on the square feet. 

Carmine D.

As far as a fall down I would probably go toward a Wessel Works. Then just a Generic $10 after that. I usually up sell rather than the traditional down sell. I'm not a high power sales person. I start low and work up explaining the benefits and negatives as I go, offer my opinion and then let them choose. I know I won't get rich this way but I sleep better.


If you can get a Naturell for the prices mentioned BUY!!!!! IT!!!!. Especially with the new dealer agreements that Miele sent out. Prices are pretty fixed now and the Naturell should be $275.

Lucky1

Excellent fall back.  Whether you shoot high and come down with other options or low and go up.  It's good to have options for all customers and price ranges.  So if you lose the sale/customer, it's because the customer is a deadbeat and it's not bad business on your part.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I know but, personally, I can't think of many I'd recommend besides -- unless the user has to make really drastic compromises regarding storage space -- a good canister is not a bad thing to have around.  You never know what you may need it for.

Back in the day (here I go again) when a good price was $29.95 stick vac were not only less expensive but generally of good power.  They had Regina, a very popular lightweight that was the sole vacuum of many living in small spaces,  to compete with.  Remember when they even added on a powerhead in the '70s?  Hoover either preceded or followed Regina with the idea -- but I bought the Hoover.  It cleaned carpeting and bare floors quite well.  Had it not been for my purist leanings I'd probably never thought about buying another machine.

The Euro-Pros pack a lot of power plus attachements but their pleated filters clog up quickly and generally price at the cost of a low-end straight-suction canister anyway.  The $250 and up range that Miele and Emer sticks sell for isn't a practical buy for someone simply looking far a one-task vac.

I don't know much about the Hoover Flair, et al.  but just haven't found myself to be overly enthused.

Best,

Venson

Venson:

Today is my scheduled day for using the FloorMate on my ceramic tile floor.  About 1000 sq feet maybe more.  I've experimented with various vacuums for dry vacuuming first before I wet wash and dry clean.  Even the HOOVER Floormate itself for dry cleaning.  Whatever I use to vacuum the floors first, inevitably I find dirt, dust, debris and dog hair in the dirty water container, Floormate filter and the moving parts of the washer brushes.  Except one vacuum.  The Oreck upright.  When I use the Oreck to vacuum all the rugs and floors before proceeding with the wet washing, I don't get any dirt, dust and dog hair remnants in the machine and dirty water bin.  Just dirty water from the floor washing.

BTW, the HOOVER FloorMate is holding up well with my using every week.  Once per week for me.  Once per week for my daughter.  Purchased in August 2006.  With all the extras for $160 at Sam's Club. 

Carmine D.

The regina was the first 'electrik broom' [stick vacuum] followed by others including the HOOVER Lark.

Interesting to note that these stick vacuums were floor/rug cleaners but did not use the traditional barefloor

brush design of the cann and tank tools.  Using a suction nozzle with wheels and a brush

that could be adjusted for floor and rug use.  I do recall the power brush nozzles too on the Regina sticks which were used for carpet and bare floor cleaning. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi,

Keep in mind that during that time -- the '50s, '60s even the '70s and probably to date -- if you suggested that someone purchase a vacuum the immediate response from those who didn't employ carpeting in their home decor was, "What do I need one for?  I don't have any rugs.  It would appear that it was more intend as replacement to thecarpet sweeper.  Small, light and easy to pop in and out of the closet.

If I recall correctly, though the Regina was intended for rugs but the early ones had a piece -- can't remember if it used felt or bristle -- that snapped on to the nozzle for cleaning hard flooring.  Later came the dial adjustment for carpet and hard flooring, at one point a nozzle designed to vibrate ala the Eureka Vibra-Beat and I can't recall how many more spins on new ideas.  Nonetheless, the Reginas produced enough suction to be satisfactory enough to some to serve as their only vacuum. 

Bissell even produced standard and manufactured one stick vac with power nozzle in the mid-70s I believe.  Eureka had sticks that were real screamers.  Sunbeam made a couple of rather elegant looking ones -- the top of the line had an optional tool set.  Though General Electric produce a stick and also a floor washer, I've no idea how they sold. The Shetland-Lewyt stick was another loud number but sold rather well.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Many Regina buyers and users did so on carpets.  But ........as the name so poignantly stated:  "Electrik Broom."  It was intended to be used as an electrified broom, not a rug cleaner.  Wherever you used a broom, you would use the Regina electric broom.  Regina was thrilled that it's use was expanded.  It's flaw was the dirt was picked up and went through the motor first to the cloth permanent bag.  Later models like the HOOVER improved on the design by putting the bag first and the motor on top.  Still people loved the Regina and many were sold despite the drawbacks and limitations.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

True Carmine but do you think the Regina would have done as well without the well-advertised dust cup?  You just shook the bag and dumped the dirt in the trash.   No disposable bag of course but hassle as you wuold have had emptying the cloth bag on a standard upright vacuum.  Essentialy the idea Regina used is the same as age-old Kirby's.

Venson

Venson:

No doubt, the Regina dust cup was a convenient feature and nice touch.  Even see thru at one point.  [Sound familiar?]  Yes, modeled after the Kirby.  Both messy. 

Carmine D.

The regina electrik broom ,my my my i think that anyone that was in this business made at least a weeks pay just repairing these,It seems like my Dad was trying to punish me by making me fix these things.Did the origional head have the clip on felt pad, and the combo was the brush in the front and the felt pad in the back,?The best thing was trying to wire the 3 speed switch into this machine,it had more wire nuts than any other machine i've ever seen.It seemed like the dust cups always lost their seal,sort of reminds me of the bagless vacuums of today,the dirt goes everywhere but where it's suppose too.................

MOLE

Just a comment on the Oreck for floors debate.  If memory serves correctly (and I may be out to lunch on this) some Orecks incorporate a squeegee blade behind the roller while others do not.  If that's the case, would it not be the reason there are two completely different experiences regarding the same machine? Squeegee prevents dirt from being thrown, no squeegee provides low flying projectiles :-)

Dusty

mole wrote:

Hi Mole,

Thanks for the personal history.  Just to look at one, you'd never think that there was all that much in one. 

 I was never aware of the Electrik Broom's repair record.  Matter of fact, I thought it was probably cheap enough to be deemed the "disposable" appliance of the day. Yet, please tell us how much your dad charged for the repair of one.  

I never actually owned a Regina stick but was aware of the modifications they kept coming up with to make them interesting to the public.  Regina was only second to Eureka when it came to a flow of new gimmicks.  Please note that I say that most respectfully.  The Regina stick vac statyed basically the same, except for the model with power head., and chankges to the straight suction nozzle always kept shoppers thinking they were a little different than the last.  Did you ever form an opinion as to what percentage of the people your shop served had the Regina stick as their only vacuum?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only real competitors Regina sticks had were Hoover and Shetland.  Right?  Hoover sticks used the "clean air" method but the Shetland stick also used the old fashioned fan in air stream. 

Venson

mole wrote:

Hello Mole, Venson, Dusty et al:

Never sold new reginas.  I always viewed them as a "drug" on the market.  Always had 10-15 on hand used/for repair.  Sold to persons who were so inclined, with caveats.  Fans, nozzle necks, switches, fan housing gaskets, and inevitable dirt clogs in the neck leading to the fan housing, just to mention a few of the likely Regina repairs.

Early models did have the barefloor felt that clipped into the nozzle head.  But these were never used.  Always got lost.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson,the average repair bill on the regina broom in the early 70s was 12 to 15 dollars. Being the repair person Dad tried to keep me away from the over the counter customers. My opinion  is that the broom was used as an quick pick up every day driver, I would think that reginas main competition was the the eureka broom,always liked that broom,bagged,nice cleaning head,suction motor at the top even had a filter to protect the motor,6 bags and 3 filters were 89 cents,man am i getting old.The hoover brooms were not selling for us very well,The big prices at the shops was 29.95 and the bomb at 39.95.I still wish i never got rid of the everybodys pump broom,it's now a collectors item. It makes me sick how much stuff we threw away that are now worth big money .Shetland lewyt along with GE,also made brooms.But Regina dominated the sweeper market.Then along came the HOKY, and another phenom was born.

MOLE

mole wrote:

In large part because they were so pervasive and there was one for every consumer's budget: From $20 to $100.  Even S&H green stamps carried the Regina brooms. 

Ahh yes, the hoky on a stick.  I appreciate these more in old age.

Carmine D.