Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Some observations -

• Oreck is conspicuously missing from the upright ratings.
• Panasonic has a new AeroBlast for $700 is a apparently a poor copy of a Dyson that burps loudly when it reverses the air flow to clean the filter.   Why would anyone pay so much for a Dyson copy, particularly when the filter clogs with fine dust?
  
• Hoover's fall from grace is noted, presumably due to their ill conceived bagless vacuums.  Hoover now has the worst reliability of the uprights.  Dyson is second only to Kirby in the reliability rankings.   
  
• For uprights, Kenmore takes the top 2 spots (bagged and bagless), followed by the Riccar SupraLite RSL3, the Electrolux Oxygen EL5035A, and the Kirby Sentria.  
  
• The Halo is #33 on the list for uprights. 
  
• The $60 Hoover Tempo Widepath has a better tool airflow score than the Dyson DC17 as well as better carpet cleaning scores. 
  

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

First, congrats on the Super Bowl victory by the Giants.  NY won, without the point spread.  Here in Vegas it was 10 points.  Must have cost the book makers a fortune.  I knew many who picked the Giants outright without the spread. 

Excellent questions.  In my experience, the most innovative vacuum technology without question in my lifetime is the IRobot vacuums.  Very interesting company history and products.  This is the future in vacuums.  All styles, prices and features.  To date, iRobot has the lock on the market.  Even to the exclusion of other brands who try to compete.  Most retailers have culled competing robotic vacuums in favor of the Rhoomba.  Intro'ed in September 2002 without alot of hype and fanfare.  Now in its 5th generation of robotics with an array of related products [which result in economies of scale and less expensive prices].  Robots were the talk of the vacuum industry in the 50's although no one had any vision of what they would be like and how they would work. 

Sidebar:  I have to laugh at the critics here who kow tow the robotic vacuums in one breadth and in the other idolize bagless cyclones instead.  The latter can't hold a candle to the former in terms of innovation, technology, and impact on the vacuum market and the future of the industry.

Central vacuum systems have progressed in my lifetime and become more price competitive with better performance.  Comparable to the best and priciest portables.

Filtrete paper bags.  I see even BEST BUY advertises the Eureka Boss Smart Vac upright and the filtrete paper bags along with.  Others too of lesser significance but still credit worthy: Uprights with on board tools [thanks to HOOVER Dial], self-propelled [again HOOVER] and yes, even lightweights thanks to Oreck.   And an array of desirable features like the auotmatic shut off [Lux], the full bag indicator, and so on.

BTW, the Eureka Boss Smart Vac upright is another missing from the March 2008 Consumer Reports, which went on stands yesterday.  So are the new Eureka Capture uprights [the latest and greatest Eureka bagless uprights].  The latter possibly due to the newness and need by CR for more time to test and rate.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Thank you for your reply,I agree with you that robotics have been talked about for years in the industry.

Is it at the point where these are worthy of the asking prices? I understand that most of the public really likes this idea,[have someone or something else do the work for them]

The robotics machines range from 59.95 to 1800.00. I quess the closest thing yet in the other sector are central vacuum systems,[this market is starting to make a lot more sense with the price of high end portables,these are a much better bang for the dollar.[The same problems arise with this as with the portables,the customer still has to take it out and use it.[The hose].

The high end portable market especially the upright market is on the decline,yes there are a few machines out there that have captured the commercial market,[NOT THE ONES THAT SOME ON THE FORUM THINK IT IS].

Lets face it Carmine,people are vey lazy today,More than likely because of machines that do the work for them.

Another thing that i am taking note of today is that the younger generation[under 40],is that anything more than 5 years old is out of style and they must have new and shiny stuff.. And the price they pay for it is borderline lunacy............

MOLE

mole wrote:
1. I would build a Canister just like the Miele Galaxy Series (Carina, Antares etc) but with an electric hose connected to a Sebo ET1 powerhead. A sealed system with advanced HEPA option. I would like it to be at the $499.00 price point but I think customers (at least in the NY Metro Area) would pay $650.00 or more. I get SO MANY people asking for powerful, Healthy, Lightweight Canisters.

I would like an upright like the Simplicity Freedom BUT WITH TOOLS (or ability to take tools) and a roller shutoff switch. Price point at $349.00 or less. Also a Sebo Felix but with a better design at $499.00

2. I would go VERY MODERN & STREAMLINED. Make it very simple looking and easy to use. I find customers shy away from anything with lots of stuff hanging off a vac. The Felix is a fantastic and unique vacuum but it's style is a hard sell.

3. Anyone who Knows the Eureka-Electrolux sham should despise the deceit pulled on the unsuspecting public but you cannot deny how successful it is working. GRRR!

PS Who is making the Kenmore stuff that is top rated in CR? Is it LG? Panasonic still?

Thanks

Hi LUCKY1,you and i think along the same lines,mix up a few of the best features from each company,and then price it at a fair markup. Yes you are correct the electrolux/a.b has done a lot of damage to the other aerus/electrolux.A lot of customers that had the origional lux product have bought the eureka/lux stuff and felt like they been suckered.

The comments we hear run along the following lines.Boy what junk electrolux is building now.

For your information,the aerus products are still being built with no planned obsolensince, all the parts are available,the hose handles ,powernozzle parts,right down to the elbow sleeves, and wire harnesses. Aerus sells their products with the consumer in mind.And stand behind their warranty.

The stores are mostly held by individual owners,some are excellent with people that have been in the industry for years,and some are run by BOZOS,    who dont deserve to be in the businees..............

MOLE

Lucky1 wrote:

Hello Lucky1:

I posed that same question to SEARS persons today.  Here's how they answered.  They showed me the SEAR's vacuums' labels with place of production/origin:  China!  And said: "Who knows?"  Which brought us to a discussion about the new HOOVER WT Cyclonic.  Made in China, after the TTI buyout of Maytag/Hoover.  With a HOOVER, North Canton Ohio label.  As we know that plant has been shuttered.

Carmine D. 

Got my issue yesterday.  I agree with everything Severus said, especially about that AeroBlast!  Why pay more for a Dyson copy when you can get the real thing for less?  I don't understand.  The air-blowing action is supposed to clean the pre-motor filter (it is a dual-cyclone with no bin filter), but the dual cyclone setup must not work well if the pre-motor filter clogs.  The Halo rating doesn't surprise me either, actually we could say that's one of the few instances where CR is right.  

I was pleased to see Dyson score as second-most-reliable for uprights.  The Hoover cyclonic bagless cleaners are a TTI design, I thought they were interesting and not badly constructed but I guess reader surveys indicate otherwise.  Although since Hoover hasn't been all that reliable in recent years, I wonder if the old design is contributing to that drop as well. 

Notice that again, the Electrolux Oxygen scores highest for canisters, while its sister models (Harmony and TwinClean) score considerably lower.  Why?  Apparently pet hair stopped the power nozzle just as it did on the last test.  Yet these cleaners use the same power nozzle!  In addition I see the DC17's ranking has improved as well, yet the machine itself is unchanged.  On the last report it scored 1 lower than the Bissell HealthyHome (which has also remained unchanged).  The DC21's rather low rating was disappointing, it's a lot better machine than they make it out to be.  Ridiculous.

The Kenmore, Tempo (with "Ametek Shanghai" motor no less), and Oxygen ratings are unsurprising, always a need for a "token machine".  In real life there's no way they would fare that well, and even so, how long would they last...

Motorhead wrote:

Hey dyson return man:

Had to "bash" the HOOVER TEMPO, a $60 vacuum.  Of course, because I praised it and CR for the excellent pick.  It moved up 2 in the rankings this year to number 6 and is ahead of the DC17 [your favorite] which costs $549 and comes in at 7.  Beat by a $60 HOOVER.  And the TEMPO has a headlight AND DYSONS DON'T.

Now to answer your question. An easy one.  At $60 per for a HOOVER TEMPO a consumer can buy 9 in total [at $540] which will outlast ONE dyson DC17 at $549.  AND the buyer has the benefit of NINE years [MINIMUM] of unconditional product guarantees NOT 5 year [MAXIMUM] limited guarantee on a DC17 PLUS A HEADLIGHT.

HOME DEPOT has added the HOOVER TEMPO to its sales venue recently while culling several dyson models from its inventory and shelves.  Wonder why dyson man?

Carmine D.

WRT the HOOVER TEMPO: Since you dyson return man like to peruse the internet for reviews and links I thought I would too.

One link here on this site rates the HOOVER TEMPO a 100 percent for popularity among buyers and users [higher than all other upright vacuums including dysons].  Why? Read on.

Hoover U5140900 Bagged Tempo Widepath Product Reviews
Review Excerpt
"I shopped extensively for a new vacuum. This one is the best model if you're looking to spend less than one hundred dollars. It works great." see at least 6 more reviews at pricegrabber.com
"Got this a couple of months ago as per the CR recommendation. It works good on carpet, not so good on hard floors." see at least 415 more reviews at amazon.com
"Powerful/Good Suction, Feels self propelled, Easy to Use, Efficient, Lightweight" see at least 216 more reviews at abtelectronics.com
"Seems to clean the carpets good, it is light weight and I don't really notice that it is not self-propelled, however it is loud and the cord is shorter than my other vac. cleaner. If you don't want to spend a lot of money this cleaner will get the job done." see at least 3 more reviews at astore.amazon.com 298 posters rate HOOVER Tempo 5 Stars.  248 posters rate it a 4.5.  187 rate it 4.  26 rate it 3.  9 rate it 2 20 rate it 1.  733 users out of 788 rate it 4 Stars or higher.  Pretty convincing and impressive. CR must have this one right! Always has. Not you dyson return man.  You're Wrong. Again. Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

Let me help you dyson return man. 

Rankings are affected by the number and brand of vacuums tested.  Remember I posted that the Eureka Boss Smart Vacuum was not included in March 2008.  It was in October 2007.  That's one less in the top 10 for tests that could account for the increase by one in the ranking for the dyson DC17.  Right?

What you should compare instead for consistency among the CR ratings are the individual test scores.  If you do, the dyson DC17 in the October 2007 ratings and March 2008 ratings are the same in every test category EXCEPT ONE: Noise.  The rating went from FAIR to GOOD changing the overall score from 64 to 65.  Not that big a difference.  One point. 

How do you know the machine is unchanged?  My sense is that the 450 dyson engineers figured out if they add a little more sound insulation to the motor housing [which could be coating of paint], it will muffle the noise. 

Carmine D. 

Motorhead wrote:

No dyson return man.  Accurate.  Let me help you once again.

IMHO, the reason the dyson DC21 is ranked 54 of 61 is the ratings in the categories for carpet cleaning, noise, and pet hair removal from carpets.  The first and last categories carry a lot of weight for CR.  Don't take my word, read the CR narrative.  The ratings for the dyson DC21 [a $500 bagless canister] are GOOD for all 3.  The dyson DC21 rating for handling, a category that 450 dyson engineers should max out, is FAIR.  Which lowers the overall DC21 rating and rank further vice its competitors.

The carpet cleaning and pet hair removal ratings for the DC21 are not ridiculous, save the fact that dyson after 6 years still can't improve its performance.  Why?  The ratings in these 2 categories are comparable and pretty consistent with the CR category ratings for October 2007 and March 2008 FOR ALL THE DYSONS TESTED:  DC07, DC14, DC15, and DC18.  Either good/fair.  So the DC21 ratings in these specific categories are on par with all the dysons tested by CR for these categories for the past 2 years.  My sense is that if you look back further than 2 years, the same is also true.  Why?  The DC07, 14, and 15 are all three or more years old.  And in this time, dyson uprights have never made the top 10 until now with the the DC17.  Which launched in the USA in September 2006.  And CR first reviewed in October 2007.  It was number 11 behind number 10: The BISSELL Healthy Home.  Which is number 9 in March 2008. 

The only real difference among the dyson vacuum ratings is in the dyson DC17.  It gets very good in these 2 categories and no doubt this is the reason it fares the best in ranks.  And moves up to number 7, in front of the BISSELL Healthy Home.  Why?  Read on.

Compare the BISSELL Healthy Home ratings by category and the Dyson DC17 ratings by category for October 2007 and March 2008.  The BISSELL Healthy Home ratings are identical from one time to the other.  Not so the dyson.  The rating for noise went from fair [October 2007] to good [March 2008].  And the reason the DC17, in part, moved ahead of the BISSELL Healthy Home.

As with the DC21, the DC17 gets a fair in handling.  Which keeps it in the low top 10 in the latest CR rankings.  With 450 dyson engineers, several test laboratories, and all the money spent on R&D, the best dyson can muster for handling for their latest full size vacuums is FAIR.  For shame. 

Dyson did very well in reliability for its first year out in the USA...............but they have to improve the performance of their vacuums.  After 6 years, dyson is still struggling with its performance.  It takes both performance and reliability when you price your products the highest.  The latter doesn't count without the former and vice versa.

Carmine D.