Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Early news reports in the USA are saying the London financial markets nosed dived today in the worse downturn ever.  This comes on the heels of a 4 percent drop in the Dow Jones Industrials last week alone.  Since today is a Federal Holiday in the US in observance of Dr. Martin Luther King the financial markets are closed.  Not sure what impact the London market fall will have on the US markets--have to wait to see.

What and how long will it take jaydee to realize that he needs to enter the low to middle price range vacuum market to stay competitive in the USA in the big box stores' venue?

Any news yet on the 2007 dyson sales? 

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:

We'll have to expect some belt tightening and cutting back at dyson.  Why?  Because Mr. Dyson withdrew $289 Million US from the company.  That's an unusually exorbitant amount to withdraw at one time.  I don't accept the reasons provided: To save 8 percent in CGT; Have R&D money; and have cash flow for the new dyson school?  The latter is estimated at $25 Million.  For that much money in the UK, dyson can build a world class University.  These are high schoolers not PHD-s [yet].   R&D money is better served on the company books so the costs and expenses can be amortized over time/deducted from revenue.  If used for R&D, the CGT is a moot point.  The money isn't taxed because its funneled back into legitimate business expenses which eliminate the increase hit of the capital gains tax. 

I hear the words of Mole in distance:  Wait. Yes.  "The party's over."

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
You need to correct your figures, old chap. The Dyson school is £56m GBP. ($109m USD)


http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=242079&contentPK=20244278&folderPk=89118&pNodeId=242076

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

Good golly old Miss Molly.  $109 Million US!! 

Thanks for the update.  

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

The party's over?        DIB

I was reading that declared pre-tax profits have halved at Dyson in the last year. Although, James Dyson has always said he has resisted floating the company, as he doesn't like the idea of having to make profits every year to please shareholders and their dividends - he prefers the freedom to take risks, invest in R&D and look for a greater profit overall. Of course, there's still scope for the tide to turn - however, they have a healthy supply of new products, airblade and other possible spins off's in the works, are number no1 by sales value in virtually all the countries where it matters and sell at a comfortable margin. Where I'm standing, the operation appears to be standing on firm ground, at last for the foreseeable future.

Lucky1 wrote:

While most of you feel it is the unique Dyson Engineering that has attracted customers I strongly disagree. It is the first rate and quality Graphic Design and Marketing that is responsible for most of the Dyson success. Of course most people never realize how they have been manipulated or led (choose your word preference) into buying a Dyson or any other well marketed product.

M00seUK wrote:

Carmine wrote:

You must have seen the latest dyson brochure proclaiming the Asthma friendly certification.  2 pages of pics and narrative with scientists and engineers in white lab coats looking very serious and intent in their daily chores.  HAve to hand it to Mr. Dyson very impressive sales work.

Carmine D.

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Guys,

Iona did $250 million in sales, selling Fantom’s in Canada and the U.S. in the first three years of operation, that’s around $300m in today’s dollars.  The Fantom Fury benefits (from the Fury infomercial) are listed below.

1) No potentially power robbing bags.

2) No bags to buy.

3)  Certified HEPA filter

4) It’s a 2 in 1 vacuum (hose and wand make this upright become canister-like).

The vacuum simply delivered on it’s promises.  No fancy graphics, no Dyson background story, no manipulation, just an inventor and a business taking advantage of missed opportunities…  offering new technologies to an antiquated commodity (the vacuum cleaner).        DIB

Hello DIB:

Do you know the average price of a new Fantom?  If so, do the math to come up with the sku-s [units] sold per year [on average].  Are you still impressed with the number of sales of the Fantom vacuums?  Do you see any around and still in use?

Carmine D.

Wasn't the 10-amp Fury $199 or so in 1995-96, and the Thunder (formerly the 11-amp Fantom) $249? 

CarmineD wrote:
In contrast to Dyson, the backstory on the Fantom sounds very much shareholder-led. As I understand it, they licensed the Dyson patents, built it as cheaply as they could, designed it to rely on expensive HEPA filters that needed continual replacements and sold it at a high price, by the use of infomercials. If they'd taken the long view, depending on how long the origional licence period was, they could have well been the North American market leader over the last 5 years, in place of Dyson.

M00seUK wrote:
Hi Moose,

At that time they were around from 1992-2001, Fantoms were hardly the most expensive cleaner, although not the cheapest either by any means.  As for the longevity, personally I don't think they were as poorly made as most big-box vacuums around at the time, but it's hard to tell.  You see quite a few Fantoms around on eBay that are still running (or so the seller claims), but one vac shop I inquired about the Fantom at that time complained that they were complex machines with too many small parts (and therefore too many screws).  At any rate, I don't know how many Fantoms will continue to be in regular use, as sources for major parts have since dried up (though you can still find belts and such) and even the newer machines are close to 10 years old.  I do hear of many Fantom owners replacing their worn-out Fantoms with new Dysons.

Greed was what got the best of Fantom and eventually led to their demise.  The main problem was the corner-cutting on the filters.  While there was no choice on the first machines as far as filter type goes, by the mid-90's Dyson's lifetime HEPA filter was already out and being used on the UK machines.  Fantom, continually searching for more sources of revenue, opted to have a filter that had to be replaced periodically; the replacement interval escapes me but I remember it was not long.   Finally, in the early-2000s near the end, Fantom decided NOT to pay James Dyson royalties for use of his design, instead abandoning the dual-cyclone design in favor of their own system of bin filters.  As we all know the results of this were disastrous, and the Wildcat upright earned a "Not Acceptable" rating from CR due to visible dust emissions (I believe it was either in late 2001 or early 2002, I did receive that report when it was issued so I will have to check).  By the time of that report, the nail was already in the coffin for Fantom; CR even stated that Fantom had already filed for Chapter 11 so customers may have difficulty returning them.  Afterwards, Euro-Pro bought the rights to the Fantom name to put it on their own horrible machines, which they continue to do to this day. 

That's the story as I know it.  I may be off on a few parts so if anyone knows the right details feel free to correct me.

-MH