Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I am trying to help my son's preschool (we're a co-op) select the best vacuum.  Everyday lots and lots and lots of sand makes its way into our classroom.   The sand has laid to rest an expensive Oreck in less than a year and a lower priced bagless clocks its demise at 18 months.  I lent them my miele canister for a couple of days to see if the teachers like it.  Is a canister the best and if so which one?  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

You need a crash course in vacuum cleaners 101.  The best place to acquire a broad range of vacuum cleaner information in a short period of time is the Consumer Reports Web Site, which you can find advertised on the side banners of this Forum.  It shouldn't take long.  I suggest you view the CR vacuum videos too which I believe are a series of 6-8 quickies that run a total of 25 minutes.  After you do, you should return to the Forum and let us know what questions you may have about vacuum cleaner purchases, do's and don'ts. 

It will assist others to answer if you provide the cleaning requirements of the pre-school co-op and the budget for the vacuum purchase.  Miele is an excellent vacuum.  One of the best made and sold on the market today.  You are probably the best reference source for your co-op to provide a recommendation for a Miele canister with its pros and cons. 

Carmine D.

Hi kelizabeth,

About what size is your pre-school and what's on the floor?  If the floor area is of considerable size and bare or covered with low, dense pile carpet -- basically the only carpet solution in this case -- a more commercially oriented canister would be the deal.  The name that comes to mind for me is Nilsfisk.  The U.S. branch of the company provides at least two quiet running canisters, the GM 80 and the GD 930, that offer generous bag size.  Either should be great for bare floors and low pile carpet without aid of a power nozzle. Due to the impressive dust capacity you can can clean a good while before a bag change is called for.  That might also prove a boon as the vacuum could also be used for cleaning tasks in other common areas thus making the purchase even more worthwhile.  I've owned the GS 80 and now own the GS 90 -- now out of manufacture -- and can highly praise the brand by way of hands-on experience.

I also suggest these two canisters as they are mostly metal, pretty durable yet not burdensome to carry when necessary.  Replacements parts if needed are usually just a phone call away.  I'd prefer Nilfisk over the usual hosehold vacuum, even Miele which is certainly good  but meant for regular housekeeping. I've owned.  The two links below will give you opportunity to get a general idea of what either model is like.

GM 80 -- http://www.nilfiskcfm.com/ProductDetail.aspx?m=1

GD 930 -- http://www.nilfiskcfm.com/ProductDetail.aspx?m=15

Nilfisk, like Miele, can be pricey.  If at some point you're inclined to buy this brand, or any other brand for that matter, be sure run a search for the model you have in mind at www.pricegrabber.com. It offers an opportunity to seek out best price.

Hope that helps,

Venson

I greatly appreciate the information.  I've been searching the internet for awhile trying to figure out the answer to our dilemma with very little luck   Thankfully, I somehow I stumbled on to this website.  I am going to take the advice of both responders.  Again, thank you very much.

kelizabeth,

If nothing else, we aim to please.  You're very welcome and good luck.

Regards,

Venson

Hi,all vacuums require service and repairs,some after a very short time,and a few a little longer,your application is considered a commercial setting with more than likely more than 1 person using the machine,I would highly reccomend you deal with a professional floorcare person/establishmet. Find a shop that has has an outstanding repair and service reputation,Anyone can sell cleaning machines,it takes talent to repair them............

MOLE

Just a follow up along the same line as Mole and Venson:  Vacuum manufacturers will not honor their warranty on vacuums used in the type of cleaning environment as yours, which is not considered domestic and/or household use.  The manufacturer's product specifications must specifically say it is made for commercial usage.  You would be are out-of-luck for a warranty with most if not all the big-box retail store vacuum makes and models.

Carmine D.

You should stay away from the residential machines, because they are not built for what you want it for.  Look to a good commercial vacuum cleaner that will handle sand better.  Using a suction-only canister vacuum cleaner is not going to pick up the sand from the carpeting like an upright.  There are even some uprights that will perform better at this task than other uprights.

Look to the Royal Commercial upright like the 1028Z.  It is lite, performs very well for your situation and is constructed to hold up better in the school environment.  The second choice would be a Sanitaire upright like the SC886.  It will perform well.  This vacuum uses a "Quick Kleen" system where the bottom fan chamber can be removed by removing two screws-very easy.  The fan can also be removed easily.  Sand will tend to do more damage to this plastic, but it can be replaced in a few minutes.

Lastly, look at the Koblenz upright.  These uprights will look similar to the Sanitaire and are built to handle the school classrooms.

You want something that will hold up well, that will have little as possible downtime.

I second Venson's suggestion of the Nilfisk canister, GREAT machine.  I'm going to add that a Windsor upright would also be a fine choice.  Both the Nilfisk and Windsor are fairly pricey machines, but the quality is outstanding. 

Now if you cannot get either of those, my opinion would be to stick to a clean-air (where the dirt does *not* pass through the fan) commercial upright that uses disposable bags.  There are many out there at different (reasonable) price ranges; Panasonic, Simplicity, and Riccar commercials to name a few.  Something bagless or direct-air (where the dirt does pass through the fan) would definitely not be a good choice if the machine is going to be picking up large amounts of sand.  While the Sanitaire, Koblenz, and Royal uprights are great machines, they are direct-air so they would not be good in your situation.  While it is true that the Royal has a metal fan (and has been "tested" on various objects including sand), the sand will still put wear on the fan and fan chamber over a period of time.  No doubt that is what killed your Oreck after 18 months.

Reggie;

The above mentioned machines that I listed will do just fine.  The worst one will be the Sanitaire, but like I said, it can be repaired quickly and inexpensively.  The clean air uprights are not going do as well as the "fan-first" uprights w/sand.  The original poster is concerned w/sand.

I believe that the Nilfisk is not needed in this situation.  It is too expensive for a Co-op.  Replacement parts/supplies are expensive also. 

SInce we seem to be expressing a divergence of opinions on vacuum recommendations, I'd like to provide mine too. 

I live in the desert.  Lots and lots of sand.  All over.  I change air cleaners in my vehicles every 3 months and they are garaged. 

I have an English yellow lab who sheds year round.  Two grand daughters just one mile away ages 1 and 3.  and they visit often.  My home is a little more than 1500 square feet with 75% ceramic tile floor and 25 % wool carpet.  In April 2007, I bought an ORECK XL Classic, at the request of my dear Wife.  It performs so well, I gifted one to my daughter (over 3000 square feet home) and Mother-in-law.  Daughter lives in the desert too. 

We all use and love the ORECK's.  In the time that I've owned the ORECK, I replaced the belt after 8 months and it's on the 3rd paper bag.   The ORECK is a daily user in my home.  I also own and use a HOOVER WT Supreme.  The HOOVER does a better job on the carpets for cleaning and grooming than the ORECK.  But ORECK is a respectable second.  ORECK has the added benefit of going easily from the floors to carpets to area rugs quickly and easily.  And the ORECK doesn't have/need a brush roll shut off to do it.

Carmine D. 

Hi Mike,

My first choice, the Nilfisk GD 930 can be found for as low as the $400 range with a little looking.  It's built-in secondary filtration set-up is not only good but provides a larger than uaual area for the job .  As well, yes the standard bags may be a bit pricier than most but do hold 15 litres.  It should take a while for bag changes.

As I have mentioned, I have owned two Nilfisks, the GS 80 and 90 which I still have, and have maintained them well without going broke.  I'll also add that the more expensive GM 80 can be used without bags for those inclined. 

Last point, kelizabeth did not mention the type of flooring used in the area they're taking care of and if it is carpeted, it's probaly low-pile commercial type.  I can't imagine that high or even medium mile carpeting would be put into use in an area where there are children in classroom setting. Lots of dirt, spills, etc.   That said, if indeed there's carpet of teh type I've mentioned, a decent canister will suffice for the job.  I was careful in my mention of that and I know that because I've done that.

I usually give careful thought when I give advice because I can't afford to be known for popping off whatever's at the top of my head.

Best,

Venson

In the same vein as Venson's Nilfisk pick, I might suggest going to the following Web Site and researching this make and their tank type models.  They may be appropriate and worthy for your cleaning requirements.

http://www.metrovacworld.com/Shopping/product.asp?catalog_name=metrovac&product_id=professionals

Made in the USA by a family business since 1939, the Metro vacuums are all steel and built to last.  Plenty of suction power and UL approved.  As little as 8 pounds with 4 horsepower, reusable cloth bag/paper filter bags optional, 20 foot cord, and 7 attachments including a turbo-driven powerhead with rotating brushes.  About $250 retail.  5 bags cost about $9.00.  It is made for commercial applications with a 5 year warranty. 

Several years back, I recommended this brand and a similar model (straight suction) to an inquirer on a now defunct vacuum Forum.  Her needs were for an animal shelter and hospital.  She also had the added requirement that it be usable as a blower to dry pet hair after washing.  This brand does.  In fact, I had one and gifted it to the animal shelter/hospital.  I presume the recommendation and gift were good.  We have been friends ever since.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Mike,

If this is leading to a one-sided judgement call as to who's insight is worthy to be heard, how can you presume to make a spot-on determination when you know extremely little about me? We haven't shared much here. The same as any other poster on the site, I am just a name with no face espousing what I claim to have come to know. Because I do believe in the right of what I say, I do make it a rule to use my real name -- Venson Thomas -- instead of an online monicker so there's never need to doubt about who said what and when when time comes to answer.

Most unfortunately, and believe me I could have used the help, you were not there when I too put in my share of time in sweeping, mopping and vacuum pushing plus even breakfast, lunch and dinner prep for pay -- and good pay too I must say. And I made my money off knowing what effective path to follow without instruction or prompting in household and commercial situations. I never got the equivalent of a Purple Heart for what I see as exemplary effort but if need arises I'd be more than happy to submit a picture of the hernia scar I got at sweet sixteen from swinging a mop in a school where I worked if that will raise me in your estimation.

But all things considered, you know the best part of my experience is having been taught early on that the show can still go on even without aid of a vacuum cleaner, fancy devices and expensive cleaning potions. Due to good old Aunt Lucy, I subsequently became able to do the job on windows without having to run to the store for Windex, put a glow on brass with lemon juice and salt and can even whip up my own mayonnaise. Sorry folks, I'm not lookiing for work but am highly pleased with what I've learned and am confident in the offering of it.

I would have it made clear that just because I may collect vacuums and/or buy them as suits my feeling in a given moment, there's no neccessity to assume that I am a frivolous person or am inclined to regard them as toys OR use them for play. Vacuums have been a long time in my realm of interest and I take the whole thing -- design, effectiveness and usability -- quite seriously. The world is full of people with bright ideas and notions with nothing to back them up. That being so, I have always felt I'd better know what I'm talking about if I'm going to go around being "helpful". Thus I long ago decided to put my money where my mouth is. The best way to do that is to get stuff in the house and try it for myself. Yes, I have vacuums old and new but the new ones have been put through their paces. And guess what? I bear the expense of the learning adventure all by myself. No one is giving me anything and despite the expense it takes to keep up with what's going on, my advice comes free and it's pretty good.

My Nilfisk 80 was employed here at the office for at least two good years and put to all sorts of tasks which it met quite well. At the end of that time it was given, not sold, to a laundry near my home. Though the user had a hard time grasping, "What goes in must come out," the worst of the machine's problem was a worn power cord.

Having been lucky to see not a lot but a little as far away as Turkey, I found Nilfisk in use in a good number of hotels and other venues. The power nozzle was not a popular item there nor was plush carpeting. Though I have never claimed the Nilfisk to be the be all, end all vacuum, I found no place where the straight sucton Nilfisk did not provide a good result. Uprights are very nice but life can and does go on without them. I am happy with that attitude.

In any event, if you do not share that feeling I will in no way be or feel diminished by that and am thoroughly accepting of your right and privilege to feel so. However, I do take umbrage at opinion base on assumption where I'm concerned. I was raised to know that this was a highly improper thing to do and therefore expect that others recognize the same in my regard.

Thanks,

Venson

Mike_W wrote:
I just have to add, I am Reggie, not this other guy.

But my recommendation would with a clean air as well tho, not just for sand, but also for the fact that in most commercial multi-user environments that people tend to not be careful of what they suck up.  A clean air system is less likely to be damaged by picking up coins, smallish toys etc., where a direct air fan can be easily broken.  I would also say that clean air systems can do just as well on sand as a direct air machine.  At work, I demo all kinds of vacuums to customers, most of them being clean air.   When I demo a machine, I always make a mess of kapok and sand for them to vacuum up.  Almost all vacuums will pick up the sand very well.

Now as for what specific vacuum I would recommend, I recommend a Windsor Sensor or Sebo G1.  I have personally sold the Sebo version to several commercial places and seen them used in day care situations, they hold up very well and need no repairs other than the occasional unclog and replacement of the brushroll (as the bristles will wear out).  These are all user serviceable with the Sebo and need no tools to do it.  Another important thing to remember is the belt.  When you are picking up large amounts of sand like dirt you really need good, constant agitation to help it get picked up, with a Sebo that uses a geared belt, so the brush is always turning at the same speed.  The belt is also permanent and never needs changed.  I personally think that if they give this machine a chance, they will see that it will clean very well and need less service.  The added cost (a couple hundred more than a Sanitaire, close in price to the Royal) of this vacuum will easily make up for its self in fewer repairs and longer life.  This is just my personal and professional opinion