Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Someone is asking me this but I have no clue. So what would you recommend to someone that has $200.00 to spend on a vacuum cleaner.

Motorhead wrote:

Hello Motorhead:

I assume you are in the vacuum cleaner business and hence the reason you've held a CR subscription for 10 years.  What do you think is a better consumer information guide for vacuums than CR? 

I have never been a staunch CR subscriber and reader.  I have been in and around the vacuum business all my long living life [praise be to God].  I have bought and read selected issues of CR over the past 60 years, primarily for vacuums.  I usually purchase the edition off the magazine rack.  I know many smart, well-educated, well to do people who are CR subscribers.  I have respect and admiration personally and professionally for these persons.

CR has gotten better over the years with its vacuum tests and ratings.  More in line with the consensus of vacuum industry experts and professionals.  However, I still, like you and others in the business, have many disagreements with CR when it comes to vacuums.  Be that as it may, is there, and has there ever been, a better reference guide for vacuum buying consumers on the market than CR? 

One vacuum choice that CR and I are in total agreement on is the HOOVER Tempo for $60.   Always rated in the top 10 by CR year after year.  And there are others too that we agree on.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson, You and others on the forum [KNOW WHERE IT'S AT].I dont think anyone on the forum would not want a HOOVER concept1,or 2, for wall to wall superior rug cleaning,even the old stand by decade 80 ,or even the famous hoover 61,62, . Of course you know that i use a silverardo in my own home,it's only 26 years old.Quite frankly Venson the vacuum pro's are really tired of the china JUNK.

As Carmine says [everything becomes a toaster for the sake of the Almighty buck.

MOLE

Hiya Mole,

The best part is that there are disposable bag makers who can supply high filtration bags for some of these older models.  That reduces worry for those fussy about air quality.  I have spotted one dealer on the web, vacrus.com, who sells high-filtration bags (type A) that fit the Concept 1 and Aerus has high quality firlter bags on hand for older Electroluxes prior the Renaissance .

Like they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Best,

Venson

Venson just a quick question for you [or anyone else],who has the vacuum contract with sears now,Is it L.G. or T.T.I. I believe PANASONIC is out of the loop now.

Thanks

 MOLE

CarmineD wrote:
Hi Carmine,

To clear a few things up--like a few posters here, I am not in the vacuum cleaner business, nor have I ever claimed to be...in fact I've said just the opposite before.  However, since I *am* a collector and have both old and new cleaners, as well as having had experience using *many* machines over the years and talking with many who *are* in the business as well, I have a pretty good idea on what a good machine should be.  By no means am I an "expert" on anything (and, again, I have never claimed to be one), but I do give insight/advice/etc. where I see fit.

The reason I have held a steady subscription to CR was at first because I *thought* it was a good guide for consumers.  I used to take their recommendations seriously.  My opinion of that changed early on, within the first 2-3 years of my subscription.  I noticed that the ratings were very inconsistent, and they had recommended machines I had either had, used, or seen "up close" and did not think much of.  For example, the Oreck and Kenmore Progressive, both of which I have had.  The Oreck (XL9100 to be exact), while not the worst machine as far as quality went, wasn't the best performer.  The Kenmore Progressive (one of the first from May '98) was OK, but its main flaw was the belt lifter which had the annoying habit of popping back up from the bare floor setting, due to the tension of the belt and a weak lock.  I knew that a few years after that they had eliminated the belt lifter with the 2-motor "Direct Drive" design, which somewhat justified the recommendation, but even then I didn't think it was the best (not good enough to be top rated or close behind). 

So now we come to the most recent vacuum report in the Oct. 07 issue.  Take for example the (filtered) bagless Kenmore Progressive and Hoover Windtunnel 2, rated at #3 and #4 respectively.  An "average buyer" would think that is normal, but any of us would take a second look because they are filtered bagless machines!  Machines that would no doubt clog after picking up a certain amount of test dirt (not to mention extremely messy to empty).  Yet other decent machines such as the Sebo, Riccar, and (dare I say it) Dyson DC17 rank below them!  What gives here?  And, 2 more classic "only in CR" moments occur when the Bissell HealthyHome (which is still a good cleaner and near-perfect duplicate of the Dyson) scores one above the Dyson DC17, and the Riccar SupraLite beats the 2-motor Radiance.  In the canisters category, the horrid Electrolux Oxygen ranks ABOVE the Sebo Air Belt, another one which I have used and is a fantastic machine that is very well built.  The power nozzle is literally self-propelled, it's that aggressive.  And, speaking of Electrolux, the Electrolux TwinClean, which (at least from outside appearance) uses a seemingly identical power nozzle to the Oxygen, failed the pet hair test.  CR's comment: "Our tough pet-hair test stopped it [the power nozzle] cold."  Am I to believe that two identical power nozzles earned completely different ratings on the same test?  I don't think so.  And what about that Koblenz upright which is a slightly (cosmetically) modified Sanitaire SC899, that we all know is a tried-and-true design?  It's ranked second to last.   Again, what happened?  CR's main complaint on that one is the F&G bag and how it's difficult to install.  It isn't the easiest to attach, but I've never ripped the paper fill tube on one of those, like CR claimed they did. 

One thing you will also notice, is that if you pay attention to the color-coded ratings, you'll see how they sometimes don't correspond with the overall score and ranking.  Something can receive two "good" scores in two categories, with the rest being either "very good" or "excellent", yet you have something with two "fair" scores ranking above that.  For example, how does the Dyson DC18 Slim, a new machine with one "fair" score for noise, rank below the DC07 or Hoover Savvy with 3 "fairs" each? 

What I'm pointing out are just a few of many discrepancies in the ratings.  Otherwise similar machines are ranked completely opposite of one another, and much more.  As I said, it's not just vacuums either.

CR is far from the best reference guide out there.  However, it's the most well-known, so to a certain extent it's the only one.  I'm not aware of any other consumer guides out there now, but if they do exist, they would be much too obscure for the average consumer to even give them a second look.

-MH

M.H.,I am in the vacuum cleaner business,have been for many years,I'm in agreement with you on almost most counts,Consumers reports is not the the gospel on vacuums or a lot of other products, The consumer has to go on something,wheather it's read out of the book,on the internet,or talked about by family or distant cousins etc.

Would you agree that royals metal vacuums were the best made,great cleaners that thousands of dealers sold for decades,how about airway,electrolux,kirby,fairfax,silverking,.Consumer reports absolutly lambasted these companys in their reports.The only 2 left standing is aerus/electrolux,Kirby.Royals metal line is now almost extinct.Whats left,Miele and taconey,[riccar simplicity].No Dyson didnt put them under they did it themselves.Like HOOVER

Remember vacuum cleaner salesmen run the same gamut as snake oil dealers and used car salesmen,the public is not suppose to believe us.......

MOLE

I couldn't agree more about CR. I don't have every machine at my shop but I have personally put up the 2 motor Synergy against every upright I can and it out cleans everyone by far. In addition what's up with the ancient Miele Plus in every report. I hope they finally use the 5000 series. I feel this is by far the best canister I have used. (Sebo is great also).

I wish someone were to really do an indepth report on the Sebo Felix. Strange machine but wow what versitility! The power head of a canister, the format of an upright and a dust buster to boot. AND with a superior floor tool and adjustable power... Unfortunately people won't buy it until someone of merit reports on it.

Lucky1,Sebo's felix will never get a  hold on the american vacuum market,It's way 2 much money for what it is,looked at it 4 years ago and told sebo, no thanks.Sebos market is for high end vacuum buyers,and the high end X series uprights are their bread and butter machines,The C3 airbelt is not bad but are bucking heads with miele,bosch,aeus/electrolux and real decent central vacuums at that 1000.00 plus price point.Sebo should stick to the commercial market,like LINDHAUS,speaking of lindhaus does anyone still sell it.

MOLE

Hi Mole and Lucky1,

I agree completely with what both of you said about CR leaving out certain brands, as well as the quality of other brands.  One thing I've noticed is that in the past few years they seem to be pitching Sears products in their ratings.  Also, some brands or machines they have tested in the past they no longer include, so in a way, CR has some control over their ratings as far as what models or brands they choose to test. 

Case in point:  The vacuum report in the March 1996 issue I have did a very extensive test of uprights and canisters, with a much more detailed outline of each machine than how it is now.   They tested 56 machines in all (vs. 70 in last October's issue).  But what's interesting is the machines chosen and rated.  Top rated for the canisters is, get this, the Nilfisk GS90, followed by the Miele White Pearl.  Two Eurekas (the Excalibur and World Vac) and one Hoover (PowerMax) follow it.  Kenmore wasn't seen until the 41st position, or the 8th machine down the line in the canister rankings (a Kenmore also occupied 43rd place).  For uprights, it was Sharp that topped the ratings with the Twin Energy, followed by the Hoover Power Drive Supreme, then the Kirby G4.  Kenmore uprights occupied #8 (Whispertone) and #10 (the PowerPath).

Kirby has always done well in the tests, but CR has never cared for them ("too pricey" and "too gimmicky" were some remarks).  Rainbow and Aerus (former Electrolux) have always received a low or marginal score even though I know from experience that they're both capable machines.  Why didn't they ever test recent Air-Way models, or Filter Queen?  I like the Royal metal line as well, but the last it was tested was in 1992-93 or so.  I know one of their excuses is that they prefer big-box store brands or brands readily available in most independents, but that didn't stop them from testing the Nilfisk back in '96.  And I'm wondering if the reason they're sticking to the lower-end Miele is to make sure it doesn't occupy first or second place in the canisters area like the White Pearl did.  In fact, since I noticed there is going to be an upcoming vacuum report, I wonder if they'll ever get around to testing the Dyson DC21?

One last thing I noticed is that recently, they seem to be testing the same machines over and over again.  Before (like in the 1996 reports and others around that time frame), they tested different machines each time.  The Kenmore Progressive and Eureka 4870 have been there for at least 5 years straight, not to mention the Hoover WindTunnels.  

I don't dispute that the Hoovers and Eurekas have done well through the years, as evidenced above and in even earlier reports they always have.  But it's the ratings of other machines which can't be that perfect, or low ratings of capable machines, that cause me to take a second glance.

-MH

EDIT:  Reading Mole's post about vac shop owners being like "snake oil or used car salesmen", while (like I said before) I'm not in the business, I've known people who give very honest opinions and "push" good machines to customers.  So, in that respect, as far as what should influence consumers on what vacuum to buy, I would say the opinion of a good, honest vacuum salesman who knows what is best for the customer rather than what makes the best sale would much better than reading any ratings in CR.

Motorhead wrote:

For all the reasons you describe [I excerpted a few above], I have never subscribed to CR and never will.  I was in the vacuum cleaner business all my life [and I am long in the tooth].  I must say over the years the CR ratings and rankings always gave me a good laugh on occasions.  Being in the business, I had to know what CR was saying in order to respond to customers' comments and questions about the CR vacuum information.

I can justify the expense of an occasional monthly CR magazine whether for vacuums and/or vehicles [as I recently did to assist with a new car purchase].  However, I never would waste my hard earned money on a long term CR subscription.  This is especially the case now with the wealth of information available on the internet free for the asking. 

Carmine D.