Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I have this commercial online here.  Enjoy.        DIB

P.S.  "It was awesome.  I loved it."  ... are two comments from someone who told me of using the Airblade.

This is old my man.  June 2007.  Where's it been?  NYC just added a bunch of public restrooms, plan to add more, and other cities are following suit.  The airblade didn't get the nod.

Couple of notes on the old article:  It appears the users are women.  A point raised by a gent on one of the Vacuum Forums is that the small airblade drying well would pose a problem for men with hairy man arms.  Recall: I believe it was Gandalf who did.

Second:  The unsanitary water/mess left on and around the airblade. Takes a custodian to monitor and clean.  Labor costs.

Rubbermaid recently entered the bathroom washroom industry by acquiring a company well intrenched in non-touch and sanitary bathroom devices.  Seems it has the hold on the market despite dyson's entrance in September 2006 with the airblade.  More common are the touchless paper towels that push out a towel from the the motion of hands.  Sure it uses trees for the paper.  But in a the current housing market with no wood beingh harvested for new home building and/or aluminum studs for frames, what else should be done with these trees?  No, not newsapers.  Most get news on-line and TV.  Paper towels!

Carmine D.

Mr. A:

Are the airblades standalone dryers in the A/P restrooms and/or do they coexist with the conventional hand dryers and paper towels?

Carmine D.

James Dyson was interviewed in Forbes recently and the topic of conversation was his Airblade.  Here.

Since it's launch in the summer of 2007, total Airblades sold are 100,000

Total sales in dollars:  $140,000

Cost to dyson to produce each unit: $840

Retail price: $1400 {about 3X as much as traditional hand dryers].

It has not taken off as quickly and well as dyson hoped. 

Carmine D.

Now, the question of whether the AirBlade sales are included in the $1B sales is more relevant.  $140,000 is immaterial on $1B.  $140,000,000 is very material. 

Assume for talking purposes the $140,000,000 is not in the $1B and the vacuum data is segregated [probably a good assumption].  Divide the $64 Million [dyson net profit] by wholesale units of dyson vacuums sold.  If you reasonably estimate 2 Million [USA] and 4 Million [worldwide] sold [based on NPD data], the dyson profit per unit is $16 to $32.  Say 3 MIllion worldwide [more reasonably], the net dyson profit is about $22 per vacuum sold at wholesale.  On the low side for profits for $1B in annual sales? ESPECIALLY AFTER 15 YEARS of operation.  

Sales increased 10 percent in 2007.  Dyson prices went from $400 in 2002 to $500 plus in 2007.  That's 25 percent increase.  Probably at least 10 percent passed on to retailers.   Did dyson unit sales increase?  No, probably not.  In fact, they may have gone down if sales dollars increased 10 percent on price increases of 25 percent.   And that's with increased markets and countries of sale!

Dyson would fare better as a retailer with $250 gross profit per vacuum sold before overhead and operating expenses.  The only problem now is that consumers aren't buying anymore.

Carmine D.

Unfortunately nothing from dyson from what I've seen so far.  Tho the restrooms utilize chrome hand dryers in lieu of paper/cloth  towels, they appear to be a competitor brand called XLerator.  Whoa!  What a hand dryer.  Small and compact and mounts on the wall like the soap dispenser.  The airlfow is activated by a sensor when you place your hands below.  And deactivated by the sensor when you remove your hands.  Quick, quiet, powerful and leaves your hands and wrists [arms if you are so inclined and use a unit on the wall not over the sinks]  as dry as the hot Las Vegas air.   Very impressive.  Don't know the price.  But I suspect worth every penny.  Due to it's size, appears easily adaptable for household use too. 

I did a quick time check by singing the happy birthday song!  By the time I was done singing, my hands were dry.  I suspect 10 seconds.  Nice thing, tho, the dryer keeps going until you remove your hands.  Less than 10 or more than 10 seconds.  No time limit.  Here's the Web site:

http://www.exceldryer.com/?gclid=CLOppo2FhZcCFQwNGgod51ei-Q

Carmine D.

This is exciting Carmine.  We have had those hand dryers in TN for some time.  Good to know that the west is catching up with us red necks. 

I seldom use those things.  I wash my privates each morning so no need to wash my hands each time I visit the toilet.

The word here in the great Southwest is that them there from your neck of the woods wash in the public toilets and dry off with the toilet paper. 

Carmine D.

I can easily understand how and why.  It's a very powerful blower.  I can see when users dry their hands on the standalone unit on the wall and lean their head into the unit's blower air, the water blowback may be a problem.  In fact, I believe the stand alone unit which is mounted on the wall may be for drying hands and face, if a customer is so inclined.  [Them there from HS's neck of the woods].

I didn't have water blowback.  I suspect largely because the blower unit is mounted on the wall with the mirrors and soap dispensers, just inches above the sinks' counter.  And behind and off the sinks' counter.  At least a good arm and neck's length away from my face.   And the stationary air blower hole is under the unit.  Not on the front/side with a swivel opening.  So my wet hands are under and below the unit during blower operation.  Any hand water blowback is deflected by the bottom of the unit and/or lands on my wrists/arms and dries instantaneously. 

Also, after washing my hands, I shake the excess water into the sink.  Then dry with paper, towel, or machine.   Interestingly, the faucet spray and handshaking water that gets onto the sink counters and mirrors were dried too by the XCelerator's operation.  Less clean up after the fact of the unsightly water stains on the sink counters and mirrors.  

Most LV casino men's rooms have a full time attendant on duty to clean up after the male patrons who may toss paper towels on the floor and mess up the sink counters with water.  This casino's restrooms do not. 

BTW, I like the maker's logo.  "It's time to throw in the towel."

Carmine D. 

Besides winning the award of one of the top ten innovative products of the year, the Web Site gives current users of the XLerator.  THo made in the USA for the last 40 years, can you spot the conspicious unlikely user[s] that got my attention?

who's using the XLERATOR...
	Disney World	Hynes Convention Center	Westminster Abbey	Kodak
	WALMART	Pizzeria Uno's	Wembley Stadium	Hudson Bay
	UPS	Con-Agra	Basketball Hall of Fame	Boston University
	and many more!

Are people still BLOWING money away in Vegas.

Can you give us the up to date line, on whos going to go bankrupt first,G.M .CHRYSLER,OR FORD.......

Heres a tip for the gamblers in VEGAS stay away from the windows, is your house worth %25 or % 50, less than a year ago.......

MOLE

Are people still BLOWING money away in Vegas.

Hi Mole: 

Alot fewer and alot less.  Gaming stocks, once all the rage here in Vegas due to the tourism industry, are way down.  Most new construction on the Casino/Hotel's is halted indefinitely, including Trump's second tower and the St. Regis [new addition to the Palozzo and Venetian].  You may have read/heard that the CEO of the MGM Grand Mirage,Mr. Lanni, resigned under very suspicious circumstances.  Most of the Casino/Hotel's have cut back on the frequency and amounts of their payouts by the slots and bingo games.  All have cut staff and operations drastically.  The unemployment rate here in Nevada is over 8 percent, one of the highest in the nation.

Can you give us the up to date line, on whos going to go bankrupt first,G.M .CHRYSLER,OR FORD.......

Yes, in this order:  GM, Chrysler and lastly Ford.  Ford is in the best financial shape of all and most likely can survive, despite the hard economic times.  The big 3 will get their $25 BILLION plus after they submit their business cash needs in early December 2008.  All the Congressional flack is just for show.  The auto industry makes considerable political campaign contributions to Senators and House members in key states and Congressional committee positions.  These politicians will lobby behind the scenes for the big 3.  After Mommy Pelosi announced that Congress would not oblige the demands of the big 3 yesterday, the market tanked 444.99 points.  Not too bright on Pelosi's part. 

Heres a tip for the gamblers in VEGAS stay away from the windows, is your house worth %25 or % 50, less than a year ago.......

Due to the recent casino/hotel opening, the houses in my community hit bottom and turned up and their long term price trend is up.  However, here's the clinker:  When the CFO of the new casino/hotel appeared recently to testify and answer questions, he was asked point blank:  Will the new casino/hotel revenues meet the debt and bank covenants.  His reply was:  I don't know.  Since $400 MILLION of the effort is financed, it's a huge amount to meet monthly, not counting costs for operation.  Some rumors are circulating that as early as this January 2009, the owners may ask for bankruptcy proceedings.  Rumors!  I think that is too early but by spring/summer after several months and quarters, it could very likely happen if gaming revenue is down.  The gaming money feeds the hotels, entertainment, and restaurants.  If its down, so is everything else. 

Time will tell.  Best case scenario, a turn around by the end of 2009.  Worse case scenario, no turn around until 2012. 

Carmine D.

How so? Here are the features and specs of the Xlerator.  Care to be specific on the specs/features that the Airblade "flat-out smokes" the Xlerator?  Or are you just being your typical own self for a different day with the same old dyson say: How great thou art James? 

Carmine D.

FEATURES   • Dries Hands Completely in 10 to 15 Seconds • Uses 80% Less Energy  • 95% Cost Savings vs. Paper Towels • GREENSPEC® Approved and Helps Qualify for  LEED® credits. • Source Reduction Alternative • Promotes Hygiene           SPECIFICATIONS Dimensions: 11 3/4" LG. X 12 11/16" HIGH X 6 11/16" DEEP (298 MM LG. X 322 MM HIGH X 170 MM DEEP) Weight:16 LBS. (7.3 KGS.) Construction Hand dryer cover shall be a one-piece, heavy-duty, rib-reinforced, die-cast zinc alloy. It shall be lightweight, unbreakable, rustproof and all exposed surfaces shall be bright chrome plated or finished with chip-proof, electrostatically applied epoxy paint and fastened to a wall plate by two chrome plated tamper-proof bolts.   Hand dryer wall plate shall be equipped with (3) 7/8" (22 mm) diameter holes, one of which shall be suitable for use with surface conduit, for ease of wiring.   All internal hand dryer parts shall be coated according to Underwriters' Laboratories, Inc. requirements.   Entire mechanism shall be internally grounded. Mechanism Hand dryer motor shall be a series commutated through-flow discharge vacuum motor/blower (5/8 HP / 20,000 RPM) which provides air velocity of 16,000 LFM (linear feet per minute) at the air outlet and 14,000 LFM at the hands (4 inches [102 mm] below air outlet).   Hand dryer heating element (900 W) is constructed of Nichrome wire and mounted inside the blower housing, thereby being vandal proof. It shall be protected by an automatic resetting thermostat, which shall open whenever air flow is cut off and shall close when flow of air is resumed. It shall produce an air temperature of up to 135°F (57°C) at a 72°F (22°C) ambient room temperature at the hands (4 inches [102 mm] below air outlet).   Hand dryer Control assembly is activated by an infrared optical sensor located next to the air outlet. The dryer shall operate as long as hands are under the air outlet. There is a 35-second lockout feature if hands are not removed.   Limited Warranty The hand dryer shall be guaranteed to be free from defects for a period of five (5) years. Warranty shall include factory performed labor as well as the repair or exchange of defective parts, at manufacturer's option.

Click diagram for enlargement. Recess Kit Download our ADA Compliant Recess Kit Specifications eBack to Top

Sounds like the only one trounced and out-smoked here is you.  When push comes to shove, you wimp out.   You make grandiose statements about a product, impugn another, and don't have any personal and professional knowledge about either for support.  

What is that huge sucking noise I hear?  Sounds like you're grasping for your your final breath as you sing the last refrain of your favorite song: "How great James art.  How great thou art!"  Just please don't ask why because I don't know!  Oh Matt mmc Airblade......please help me. 

Carmine D. 

You quoted only the run down data to put the better spin on your product.  As I would expect from a paid dyson employee who sells Airblades nowadays.  Or are you back in the vacuum trenches?

For example where did you come up with 19 seconds.  Absolutely bogus.  Meaningless.  The Xlerator runs up to 35 seconds and dries hands from 10-12 seconds, just like yours.  However, Xlerator is sensor activator for on/off by hand motion.  Gives the edge to Xlerator, not your brand.

No microbacterial covering is needed on the Xlerator because unlike the Airblade it doesn't accumulate well waste from the hand washing/drying.   Advantage to Xcelerator.  You mention the NSF approval for Airblade but missed citing the Leeds seal and credits for the Xlerator and Greenspec approval.   Seems a wash to me.  The Xlerator is smaller, lighter, more versatile to mount in conventional public restrooms.  How about yours?  Bigger.  Heavier.  Needs more wall mounting space.  Advanatge to Xlerator. 

I'm not a paid Xlerator pro so I may have missed some of the technical strengths of the Xlerator and weaknesses of your brand in the industry.  My expertise is vacuums.  Want to go one on one with your brand against another vacuum brand?  I'm your man.  Let me know.  I'm always ready.  Never duck and hide. 

Any reason Westminster Abbey and Wembly Stadium opted for Xlerator rather than your brand?  can't be the warranty.  Both are 5 years.  Was it price?  Is yours still going for $1400 per.  More than the Xlerator?

Carmine D.

What else do you have to offer to bail out your dyson buddy from talking snap?  So far you just let him sink deeper into a hole of his own making.

Carmine D.

Sounds like the Xlerator has gotten you excited.  Let me do some research and get back to you.  Remember I'm not a paid hand dyer pro like Airblade.

BTW, I'm currently using two HOOVER TEMPO-s.  Decided to give my ORECK a well deserved rest for a few weeks after 20 months of daily use and devouring sand.  Taking it out of service.  Why?  I'm going to take it all apart and count the 30 components that it uses.  Trust but verify. 

The $56 and $70 TEMPO-s are doing very well, just like the $150 ORECK does.  Didn't plan on buying two.  But couldn't resist the low price.  The HOOVER TEMPO-s are impressive on my looped wool Mohawk medium pile carpets and berber area rugs.  Two carpet venues that are very problematic for your fave brand.  Consumer Reports is absolutely correct by declaring HOOVER TEMPO a BEST BUY and ranking in the top ten.  I wholeheartedly agree.

Carmine D.

• You know I used the Xlerator.  It got the restroom contract at the new casino/hotel in North Las Vegas. 
• Xlerator took only 10 seconds for drying my hands.  Remember the birthday song.  This equals the Airblade time, which I haven't used, but presume dyson's claim is true.  M00seUK agrees the Xlerator is a powerful unit.   I supect it's due to the air velocity of the Xlerator: 16,000 linear feet per minute at the opening.  What is dyson's?
• Xlerator's max run time is 35 seconds.  It's called a lockout feature.  What is dyson's?  Xlerator automatically shuts off  after 35 secs if hands are not removed.  I presume the 35 seconds is for them there from your neck of woods who like to bathe in public toilets.  [So they don't use up all the toilet paper]. 
• Since the Xlerator gets your hands clean after drying, it must do the same for the sink counters and mirrors.  It's undried hands and surfaces, like the deep well in the Airblade, that are bacterial prone, and in need of anti-bacterial covering and cleaning.
• Don't know why a HEPA filter is needed on anything except a vacuum/air cleaner.  Another case of dyson overengineering.  Like putting b-a-l-l-s on vacuums for wheels.  Gets a notion and voila: It's everywhere. 
• NSF:  Non-sufficient funds.  Which is what customers get when they buy your overpriced products! 
• On-site service.  Not a problem with a company that leads the industry for 48 years.  Is a big problem for a novice company with less than 2 years in the idustry.

I have to conclude that Airblade didn't get the sales contracts in the UK/LV because the Xlerator's price and performance flatly out-smoked it.   Left it blowing in the wind.  Especially with Xlerator's smaller weight and size and easier mounting.   Maybe Airblade will come in a slim/lightweight version?  Or perhaps hire more sexy reps?   The housewives didn't work out.  Didn't have any industry knowledge and experience.

What's that sound?  Calling Matt mmc Airblade.  I hear that loud sucking sound.  HARDSELL just fell in the hole with DIB.  Quick!  Toss them some dyson refurbs for floatation devices.  Careful, don't fall in yourself.

Carmine D.

After several years of trying, the dyson campers still can't find an appliance/market for users of the brushless motor.   Like dyson's contra rotating washer, these inventions bleed real hard for their creators.  Tho, the current economy will certainly speed the company's business cycle along, like it or not.  Recessions [some say depression] force out overpriced brands and products.  Sadly, in such times there are no buyers for these fledgling products and businesses.  They die a painful and slow death. 

Awhile ago I suggested on this thread that dyson divest itself of the hand dryers and focus time/resources on vacuums, its core business. 

CarmineD wrote April 5, 2008: 

Now, it's probably too late.

Carmine D.

Quite true, this product has seen limited air time, It only appeals to a certain group of people in the building and construction industry, And everything that Venson says comes true, its all about the bottom line,project overuns are very costly to the owners and the contractors. Please explain to me why i should have a airblade at twice the cost of the other offerings, please justify the double the costs to me,what is their comeback[because dyson SMOKES the competition] oh sure i'll buy it just because you said so.

And for the record,would the person getting his hands dryed by the airblade,run out and tell his friends and family [WOW WHAT A GREAT HAND DRYER THAT DYSON IS] I'LL BET THEY DONT.

Can anyone think of any other dyson vacuum that has any success thats not heavily promoted.I cant, not at least since the dc07..........

crikets!!!!!!!!

MOLE

Thanks for the flattery.  I am not an Xlerator anything save a very satisfied and impressed user.  Once we cut through all the chafe [read dyson sales spin] it is crystal clear, even to a six year old, that the Xlerator's features and specs beat your brand.  Add XLerattor's lower price, smaller size, less weight, 48 years of business in the industry, and 16,000 LFM air velocity [What is dyson's Airblade?] and Xlerator blows Airblade out of the water. 

I don't care about Xlerator's profits.  You must remember DIB that for me, money is never the best and final measure of success.  

Carmine D.

Contrare Mein Herr.  You judge dyson with your pro-dyson bias.  I use the merits of the products: Specs and features.  Price and performance. 

You must remember DIB, I only use the money measure when you do!  To respond in kind to you.  Forbes' Gates vice Forbes' Dyson.  Your primary standard of success as posted here:  Dyson's billions; Dyson's Engineering school costs; Airblade's profits...ad nauseum.  You, sir not me.  

All the while I keep saying to you, it's not about the money.  Never should money be used as the best and final measure of a man/company's business success.  Much too shallow and meaningless a measure.

Carmine D. 

I'll bet you're right MOLE.  Based on personal observation, most male restroom patrons have the same philosophy expressed so well here by HARDSELL:

HARDSELL wrote:

I suspect even them there who don't wash their privates regularly follow HS's philosophy.  Probably many more than we believe.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

The problem with Youtube videos is that there is no independent objective vetting and verification of the information and demonstrations.  It's not like there is a "snopes" for youtube.  The credibility of the youtube videos is dependent on the integrity and/or intentions and motives of the source.  Dyson is the source so this video puts a dyson sales spin on the Airblade presentation. 

You must remember DIB, that restroom patrons care less about the "wow factor" of the necessities in the toilet facilities.  As long as the needed amenities are there to use, if the patron is inclined, [and I'm estimating that 1 out of 2 males follow HARDSELL's philosphy] that's all they care.  Which is both HARDSELL and MOLE's point.  Tho, HS uses sarcasm very bitingly, as he usually does, to defuse my enthusiasm for the XLerator's performance.  [Dah, it's a hand dryer!]  

HARDSELL wrote:

Of course, HS's personal and professional dyson leanings soon turned his comments here very serious as did the discussions when Matt mmc Airblade entered the foray.  Thanks to your [DIB] petition for professional help.  He's here at dyson's beck and call.

Patrons don't buy hand dryers for their homes, like they do their vacuums, and personally use them in their homes.  Patrons expect that the management will provide practical products to serve restroom purposes.  Paper, towels etc.  The push now for going green is with hand dryers.  If a standard $700 model works fine and has for over 48 years, why spend $1400 on a new notioned one?  Because dyson says so?  Yeah, right.  How's that working for dyson?  Not too well.   [Which is MOLE, Venson's point.  And HS's point too:  "We have had those hand dryers in TN for some time.  Good to know that the west is catching up with us red necks".  Can we expect a Youtube dyson 'fecal sequel?'   Here's a novel thought:  Use the extra bucks saved on the Xlerator on the "wow factor" amenities, not the room for nature calls.  Common business sense.  Even a 6 year old can figure it out.

The best way to promote hygiene among the male patrons, save a sanitary expert from the NSF to police the restroom patrons  [ NSF is probably the reason for the 18 percent increase in new dyson hires in 2008.  A wholly owned subsidiary of dyson to define and measure standards for clean dry hands],  is to have a gorgeous female cocktail waitress skantily clad, meet and greet men on their way in and out.  It would get mens' attention and make them aware of their personal hygiene habits.  Knowing that this babe is there watching them.   Sort of like having your Mother tell you when you were a kid to wash your hands after going.  Only alot more sexy!  Tho, some like HS, would still not bother.

Carmine D.

Bathrooms are luxurious.  Comparable to those in the new LAs Vegas casino/hotels.  Hand dryers?  Absolutely.  Brand?  XLERATOR.  Sorry, no Air Blades.

Carmine D.

Congrats!  Nice to hear you say so after me/others have been saying the same for years.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.

I thought the same Vacmanuk.  Goes against conventional wisdom.  But here in the states it seems this is common for scientific fact especially with food/drink and health concerns.  We go from one common rule to another very different one just after a few years of indoctrination.  Like economists, doctors have all different opinions on the same matter/issue and take turns proclaiming the latest to the consumers, who are left scratching their heads.

Carmine D.