Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

The LG Komprssor fails to live up to it's own hype.

http://www.current.com.au/2007/11/14/article/TNVOCYNOAX.html

 

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_43432.htm

 

LG video ad – http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1562197233155322442&q=lg+compressor&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

 

LG Komprssor dumping contents video - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4611387694393452897&q=lg+compressor&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

 

LG Kompressor - Australia…

http://www.lge.com.au/kompressor/

 

DIB

Nasty...I'm sneezing just watching it.  I have to agree about the "lazy engineering" part...in this case the engineering is encouraging the user to be lazy by not emptying the machine often!  I guess LG's intention, however, was an attempt (might I add a horrible one) at addressing the main reason those who prefer bagged machines don't like bagless...the "messy to empty" complaint.  That seems to be the #1 attack in anti-bagless ads.  My answer to that is no vacuum is perfect, or will ever be.  It all depends on what you're looking for.  If you don't want to handle dirt, then the Filtrete bag is for you, but power will eventually drop off as the bag gets full.  If you don't mind the *possibility* of handling dirt, but want constant power that does not drop off under any circumstances, then go with a cyclonic bagless.  For me, I like the idea of the machine delivering peak performance the entire time I'm using it.

I empty my Dyson frequently (I have a DC21 canister; usually I empty it after each use, but if what I'm cleaning is really dirty I empty it halfway through as well) and have never had any instances of a dust cloud as depicted in the ad.  On a true cyclonic bagless machine if you empty it often (and be sure to tap the bin to loosen any dust trapped in the cyclones before emptying), it really does not kick up as much dust as one would think.  But that's the key, though...Empty. It. Often.  Anyone who lets the bin get full is just begging for a mess when they finally do empty it! 

As for a filtered bagless, forget it...the epitome of dust-spewing, clogging monstrosities.  If I can't have a Dyson, give me a bagged machine any day over one of those. 

Edit:  I found out just now that this uses a similar (if not identical) cyclone setup as the new Kenmore PremaLite.  So I guess it does have some potential as a cleaner, but YUK, that dirt-compression idea is just repulsive.  That second video (and the ensuing dustcloud) will probably give me nightmares for the next week...

Hi Motorhead,

I see it the other way.  The ideal appliance is the one that does its job well with the least requirement for fussing about by the user.  Yes, it is better that vacuum users empty dust containers or change bags often but that is not always possible or practical.  Bottom line, it's simply about getting the job done.

Vacuumng is just another chore to most and all that is usually expected is that the "machine" solves their carpet keeping problems with the least passes in the least time.  A good vacuum should not require a lot of extra actions to maintain an optimum level of operation during a cleaning session.  An emptying after use should be enough except for special circumstances like cleaning up very powdery substances.

Regards,

Venson

"Clean Out Cycone Box Daily"...

I took these pics of a city truck vacuuming storm drains before our first big forcasted rain hit.  The workers enjoyed hearing how Dyson uses the same cyclones on his vacuums.        DIB

Very cool, I love seeing those giant cyclone separators on dust collectors and other applications.  I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a brochure posted somewhere of a 1920's-1930's Spencer Turbine central vacuum.  Among the standard features was, yes, cyclone separation with a cyclone just like the one pictured here, connected in line to the system!  It appeared that the machine had one, although in another picture it showed two connected, a primary and secondary.  I'm trying to remember when these were first produced; either the early teens or the turn of the century...so that technology has been around for almost 100 years, just amazing!

Hi all,

A techinally perfect maintenance regimen will never be followed by the larger part of vacuum owners whether bagged or bagless.  That will not happen until the coming of the coming of the Kingdom when we'll run and never get tired AND ALSO vacuum no more.  Get my drift?

Until then, the onus to produce machines that bring about the least dust exposure to the user in the process is not upon the maker of Earth and sky but simply the guys who put the darn rhings on the market.  Dyson has only gained back up here in that LG may not say its dust exposure during maintenance is no less upon emptying than any other brand.  To the thinking mind. that's really adds up to a big, "So what."

The bagless vacuum regardless of maker has yet to bring us to a perfect place.  The average consumer who will use a bagless machine several times until it appears obvious he or she should do something will do just that.  However, I'd hope that the manufacturers would be moved toward making that easier.  As for bagged machines, Electrolux, not necessarily my favorite machine, has been a hard act to follow as far as ingenuity goes.  The self-sealing "dust wrapper" -- forget the itty-bitty size -- is still a hard act to follow.

I live in an apartment, and emptying a bagless vac, a wide-mouth bagged vac or a permanent bag using vac indoors is still only something I do to avoid having to go downstairs and outside come winter cold.  As a consumer, I am oh so unimpressed by lawsuit judgements that merely thwart the path of language this way or that.  I am moved to buy by from appliance makers who can help me do what I may not like in a way that make it appear as nothing.  You don't see much of that.

Anyway . . .  though we will probably never find the perfect contraption that might cause any of our day-to-day household tasks to seem painless, may we at least rise a little more toward loving each other well.

Peace on Earth, good will toward men and though I've probably forgotten overlooked something in my wish making -- amen,

Venson

Hi Venson, We just might have the next IVENTION coming out soon [THE NEW FLOOR MOP AND BROOM WITH CYCLONIC CLEANING ACTION].Interested in bankrolling the R-D for us.

Happy Holidays.

Stay well.

MOLE/O.T.

Venson,

Hello.  There was no lawsuit (I think this is what you were saying Dyson used to stop LG from making false claims), just a complaint by Dyson and the ASA agreed here.  The next big step/invention/innovation/problem that needs solving is, amongst others, the eliminating of the dust plume when empting a “bagless canister”.  Multi-million and multi-billion dollar corporations have not figured/invented a no-dust-when-empting-the-bin contraption.  So what gives LG the right to lie and say they invented the fix, therefore consumers should not purchase any other makers vacuum just their LG Kompresor – “the dust free system/invention”.  I say good for Dyson or Joe Blow.  I do not care who or whom speaks up and says LG is intentionally lying.  Again the $1.2 billion dollar “David” fell the $38.5 billion “Goliath”.  Lesson learned, LG should actually invent a dust free dumping system versus claiming they invented a dust free dumping system.  Shame, shame LG.  After looking at their tv commercial frame by frame here.  The actor in the commercial who is dumping his LG bins contents has NO DUST WHAT SO EVER inside the high efficiency collection chamber.  One, two, three, four or five vacuumings and no dust in these chambers means LG cleaned this chamber before filming so little or no dust plume is seen in the commercial therefore intentionally and knowingly advertised a lie.        DIB

.

For those outside this forum/group who want to empty their Dyson’s without getting dusty…

• Use a plastic bag when empting the bins contents as per the Dyson manual.  Or...
• Place an upright, opened paper bag on the ground outdoors.  Put your cyclone/bin into this bag and keep ½” above bag/floor.  Press drop away door trigger.  Notice no dust or minimal dust plume.  Lift and slightly shake slowly lifting and dropping/empting the contents (dirt). That’s it.  If breezy then do this upwind.  It is not a “green” solution but it works.

Hi DIB,

Your effort I thank you for but I am just plain tired of claims and prolonged debates re claims of "no loss of suction,"no dust whatsoever," not to mention cylcones and whirlwinds everywhere from everybody.  You can throw in the sanitizing power of UV lights that no one will ever learn to apply properly for dust mite elimination -- unless it's employed in some sort timed robotic device.  Hello Roomba?

Neither company in contention, has a mouth that's a prayer book. It is not necessarily up to LG to come up with a solution -- just because the claim it made fell flat.  Let Dyson get on the band wagon too.  I don't see a solution for this coming any time soon.  Unfortunately, methods like compression of the dry contents of the dustbin plus a prescribed amount of moisture to inhibit loose dust from flying just prior to emptying would like prove as much a chore and annoyance to deal with for the average user.

There's not a manufacturer, even of machines I  like, that can be painted in a saintly shade.  It should be admitted that bagless vacuums and bagged vacuums with certain types of bags will provide annoyance and nuisance come time to empty and that these same machines are probably not a good fit for those with allergies or high sensitivity to household dust. 

That said, having long in a world with a myriad of vacuum cleaners, all purported to broach all matter of the same old problems in "special" ways, the bottom line is, can the darn things clean and contain what they clean.  No matter whether the machine requires a ritual to get it up and going or can just be snatched out of the closet and good to go, what's the result? Good or bad?  To be or not to be," is still not the question.  "Can you do it the way I like when I want it done," is. 

If a given vacuum can merely produce satisfying results for its owner, the world is a happy place even at the cost of a snootful of dust now and then.

Venson

Since bagless vacuum manufacturers suggest emptying their dust bins into a bag why doesn't someone invent a vacuum that has a bag attached to the dust bin!

Venson wrote:

In regards to bagless vacuums being unhealthy for those with health problems the hazard goes further than just emptying them. As you vacuum, dust escapes from the seals, power cords etc. Spewing dust into the air in your home. Dyson included. Even if your vacuum has a bag and says HEPA filter, unless you have a "sealed system" like a Miele, Simplicity or a few Sanitaire models you will have air leakage.

Lucky1 wrote:
Dust escapes from the power cords, huh??!?!?!?  Where do you get your information?  I'm cracking up at that one.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.  It is the user who controls how much dust a bagless vacuum stirs up on emptying.  If it is emptied PROPERLY (meaning not just "dumping it"), the "dust cloud" will be drastically reduced if not eliminated altogether.  And yes, it can be done, the dust just has to be "poured" out, and if there's a trapdoor on the bin, you have to hold it and let it empty out slowly.  Dumping it out with force is just begging for a dust cloud, as well as the coughing and gagging that results ;-)

As you said, if it is not a self-sealing bag, a bagged machine has an equal opportunity to cause a dust cloud.  One of the reasons why I try to fold the fill tube or collar inward before putting it in the trash.

-MH

And the next way of bin emptying will even be easier,take the bin off your DYSON,drive down the highway, open your drivers window hit the trigger and get the drivers behind you all pissed off.

 MOLE

Lucky1 wrote:

It's been done and even better.   No need to dump the bin into a bag.  It's done automatically.  And called a vacuum cleaner with a bag.    Beats all the nonsense to avoid the hassle to dump and the residual dirt and dust clouds spewing into the air and all over.  And no pet hairs remaining stuck to the bin and bin components, like the shroud, after dumping.

I recall watching a dyson video at one of the large retailers showing the user dumping the dirt bin on a DC07.  Clever videoing.   Firstly, the bin was not full, not even half, not even one quarter.  Secondly, the user held the bin over the waste pail at a very small angle to allow the dirt to cascade slowly down the dyson dirt bin into the pail.  [A previous poster on this thread called this dumping method the "pouring" technique. ]  Finally, as soon as the dust cloud emerged from the pail [using the pouring technique], the video panned away to avoid the dirt/dust cloud.   I suppose you can have a "mistter" built into the pail which is activated by a dust sensor that will spray water over the contents to keep from spewing back into the air.    That's been done already too.  It's called a Rexair/Rainbow and makes mud.  Is it any wonder that CR and all doctors with patients who are sensitive to dirt/dust vehemently advise against bagless vacuums?  The answer is a resounding "No."

I recall seeing a dyson dirt bin dumped with no after effects when watching James Dyson do it.  He was demoing a brand new DC15 Ball at the NBC studios as part of a nationwide news report and coverage of the vacuum's launch.  The news studio office was brand new with new low pile carpet.  The DC15 picked up nothing after several passes by James.  When James removed the bin for dumping, NOTHING came out.   Not only was there no dust cloud, there was nothing period!   My sense is that dyson would have preferred if the dust cloud would have appeared, at least it would have given the viewers an indication that the DC15 picked up something.

Carmine D.

Lucky1 wrote:

If Dyson’s leak dust as you claim, then why do researchers give him the “Asthma Friendly” seal of approval?  Dyson's do not leak dust under normal circumstances.  I'm not linking in hopes to convert the vacuum hardcore types but I do encourage all folks who simply want to know about Dysons (before making a vacuum purchase) to look at the research.        DIB

 

• Canada:
• http://www.asthmafriendly.ca/canada_certification.html
• http://www.asthmafriendly.ca/canada_home.html
• http://www.asthmafriendly.ca/fileadmin/pdf/Press_Releases/Canada/afcertification-en-07.pdf
• United States:
• http://asthmaandallergyfriendly.com/vacuumcleaners.html
• http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=10&sub=28&cont=386

• New Zealand:
• http://www.asthmanz.co.nz/dyson.php

Lucky1 wrote:

I vote for simply putting it in a filtrete bag to begin with.  Works fine and actually keeps the insides of the vacuum cleaner.

Vacuuman wrote:

I second that motion. 

I'm very impressed with the quality of the vacuum cleaner paper bags on the market today.  Originals and replacements.  I find from my own experience that vacuums with full-bag indicators allow more bag capacity to be used up before engaging when good quality filter paper bags are used in the vacuums.  And the vacuum maintains decent suction right up to the point of a new bag replacement.  Plus the prices of the filter bags are more reasonable and affordable than the bagless vacuum filters [IMHO], which are a rip-off.   

Carmine D.

If you hold a Laser Particle Counter near seals, cord winders etc on vacuums that are not sealed systems you will get various counts of particulant matter. FACT.

As for approvals and certifications by agencies we all know they can be distorted to fit the company needs. I have personally seen meter readings. If they are acceptable to you than fine. I however feel I HAVE to tell my customers the facts, pluses or minuses about machines. I don't know why Dyson is such a touchy subject for many. I read of lot's of happy customers and I have many people come into my shop telling me how much they hate their Dyson. Along with the panasonic I think they are the best of the bagless and in a good price point.

THEY LEAK DUST ... while vacuuming and disposing. Scoffing at or denying that fact is irrelevant. The real question is: Is that acceptable to you? If so, by all means buy a bagless.

I also think serviceability, availability of parts and can a local shop fix my vacuum or do I have to send it back to the manufacturer, should also be important when purchasing.