Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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M00seUK
Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295
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Dyson financial results
Original Message Nov 4, 2007 7:18 am |
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #20 Mar 28, 2008 1:42 pm |
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Hello HARDSELL: It appears from the data I posted that the 2 Million dyson units [approximately] are worldwide and not in the USA, as previously reported. [At $1B in sales using an average sale price per dyson vacuum of $500 the result is 2 million]. Don't know if the $140,000 in AirBlade sales are included in the $1B sales amount. Factoring in the percent of USA sales only, then the dyson vacuum market share in the USA [by units] is reduced from the 10 percent recently posted [according to NPD we were told], to probably 4-5 percent of total unit sales for 2007 in the USA. That's seems reasonable and unimpressive unless quoted in dollar terms. Carmine D.
The reason for the difference is wholesale and retail. My calculation is based on retail sales. Dyson's data are based on wholesale prices to retailers. The 2 Million dyson units sold in the USA [as told per the NPD] is based on wholesale prices to retailers not retail prices to customers. What does that mean? It means a retailer is making about $250 per dyson [based on an average retail price of $500 per dyson] before paying overhead and operating expenses. Not too shabby even when they offer 10-20 percent and more off, the profit margins for the retailers is huge.
Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 28, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #21 Mar 28, 2008 2:44 pm |
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Well HARDSELL, not sure about all that you say. Doing the math, jaydee is netting $32 profit per dyson sold. Seems to me that $50 retail mark up on the new HOOVER WT is looking better by at least $16 more per vacuum. Carmine D.
Well, HARDSELL based on my previous post let's recalculate dyson's net profit per vacuum based on an average wholesale cost per dyson to the retailer of $250. Now the units sold at wholesale based on $1B of annual sales is 4 million units. Doing the math, dyson nets $16 profit per new dyson sold. Retailers are probably doing better with $250 gross profit before overhead and operating expenses.
Any comments, observations, conclusions? Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 28, 2008 by CarmineD
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HARDSELL
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #23 Mar 28, 2008 6:18 pm |
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Well, HARDSELL based on my previous post let's recalculate dyson's net profit per vacuum based on an average wholesale cost per dyson to the retailer of $250. Now the units sold at wholesale based on $1B of annual sales is 4 million units. Doing the math, dyson nets $16 profit per new dyson sold. Retailers are probably doing better with $250 gross profit before overhead and operating expenses. Any comments, observations, conclusions? Carmine D.
Based on your calculation you may be correct. Problem is, we do not know the accuracy of your calculation. Most likely it is not correct as usual.
Botom line is that I told you years ago that box sales are not as important as profits. Even $32 profit is better than the losses suffered by your beloved Hoover. Dyson really has put the spurs to you and Hoover. Ride em cowboy.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #26 Mar 29, 2008 7:43 am |
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It was not an instect. I simply said that your calculation would be correct if the data was correct. You have said before that you have no hard facts so my instinct is that you are wrong.
Here are the facts per DIB's Forbe's article:
Net dyson profit for 2007: $64 Million Gross annual sales: $1B Units sold at wholesale in the USA per NPD [and confirmed by a dyson insider here]: 2 million. Probably 3-4 Million in total worldwide. Matt [Airblade] said he had not seen the actual numbers yet. Do the math for yourself. What do you get? Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 29, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #28 Mar 30, 2008 9:00 pm |
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DIB: Interesting article, which is very short on details: The payout of $289 Million is a debt on the dyson Balance Sheet [read decrease in Assets; decrease in Capital [Retained Earnings] and increase in Liabilities. That's not good for the dyson company IMHO. The payout is not from dyson profits on operations. The payout represents 450 percent more than the company's net profit for 2007 [$64 Million]. It raises questions: Why is Mr. Dyson borrowing money from the company? Did Mr. Dyson pay himself any compensation for 2007 from company earnings [Income Statement]? Or, did he borrow from the company's assets [Balance Sheet] for his 2007 compensation? The latter is not the normal course of business for paying yourself. Even if you own the business. Dyson did it before the new UK capital gains laws go in effect [April 1]. I don't know the specifics of the laws. My suspicion, based solely on the exigency of the dyson's Board action, is that the new laws do the following: (1) Preclude private company owners [like Dyson] from making such huge payouts from the assets of their companies as compensation [as does the USA]; and/or (2) Tax the amounts borrowed for compensation at much higher rates [as does the US to discourage the financial practice]. Possibly both. A side bar: The article states that dyson appliances captured 20 percent of the US market share in 2005 and 30 percent in 2007? If appliances is another way of saying "vacuums,' how did it arrive at the percentages? NPD, the authoritative industry source, as told by Airblade, says dyson share is 9.5- 10 percent. Did Mr. Dyson take the payout in the form of dyson vacuums? That would explain it! Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 30, 2008 by CarmineD
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Airblade
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 180
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Re: Dyson financial results
Reply #29 Mar 30, 2008 9:22 pm |
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DIB: Interesting article, which is very short on details: The payout of $289 Million is a debt on the dyson Balance Sheet [read decrease in Assets; decrease in Capital [Retained Earnings] and increase in Liabilities. That's not good for the dyson company IMHO. The payout is not from dyson profits on operations. The payout represents 450 percent more than the company's net profit for 2007 [$64 Million]. It raises questions: Why is Mr. Dyson borrowing money from the company? Did Mr. Dyson pay himself any compensation for 2007 from company earnings [Income Statement]? Or, did he borrow from the company's assets [Balance Sheet] for his 2007 compensation? The latter is not the normal course of business for paying yourself. Even if you own the business. Dyson did it before the new UK capital gains laws go in effect [April 1]. I don't know the specifics of the laws. My suspicion, based solely on the exigency of the dyson's Board action, is that the new laws do the following: (1) Preclude private company owners [like Dyson] from making such huge payouts from the assets of their companies as compensation [as does the USA]; and/or (2) Tax the amounts borrowed for compensation at much higher rates [as does the US to discourage the financial practice]. Possibly both. A side bar: The article states that dyson appliances captured 20 percent of the US market share in 2005 and 30 percent in 2007? If appliances is another way of saying "vacuums,' how did it arrive at the percentages? NPD, the authoritative industry source, as told by Airblade, says dyson share is 9.5- 10 percent. Did Mr. Dyson take the payout in the form of dyson vacuums? That would explain it! Carmine D. Just a quick answer to your side bar..............Both numbers are correct. 9.5-10% is UNIT share 20-30% is DOLLAR share
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