Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi,

Who thinks the day will come, and how long will it take, when the "vacuum cleaner" will generally be accepted as just a hole in the wall that we plug a hose into? No more cyclones, water baths or super-duper filtering for alllergy sufferers.  No thought over buying canister or upright and what warranty length is.  No more concerns about cord length or operating noise levels.  I'm not just talking central vacuum system but also of a possible change in our view of practicality.  The day is not that far away when our computers will also be our telephone and TV among other things.  Come to think of it they are now though not widely employed.  Does anyone feel central vacuum systems may one day be provided in apartment buildings and other multiple dwelling as a given as well as in individual private homes?

Thanks,

Venson

I would say that it wouldn't take too long at all.  They are becoming more popular recently, and with the new things added to the industry, such as more powerfull motors, they clean better than any portable cleaner.  Its not a crazy idea at all to think centrals will become the most common type of vacuum.

Hi Fellow vacuum experts.

The central vacuum is almost standard issue in new construction,the benefits far out ways the costs,whats a decent portable vacuum cost 500.00 plus,for anything that lasts longer than 3 years.We sell both portable and central systems,as long as service and installs,this market is just booming right now with no let down in site,centrals are a must have by the younger homeowners,mostly because they grew up with it,[i bought my electrolux because my mom and auntie told me to buy them,what better than word of mouth advertising?. And just like service on portables,there is also a built -in service on centrals [it's a win win for all partys involved].

mole

Hi Mole,

I did learn that back in the day, the very early 1900's, high-end multiple dwellings like the Dakota and the Langham near Centra Park supplied not only central vacuum systems but central refrigeration that set aside the need for iceboxes.  A Finnish company also produces vacuum systems specifically for apartment building and says that this amenity is factored into the rental price.

Yeah, I'm crrazy about portable vacuums but central system use is sort of like moving from the chamber pot to the modern day toilet.  By the way, does anybody know that this year marks the 100th anniversary of the first portable electric vacuum cleaner?

Venson

Here's my thoughts on it.  Central vacuum cleaners were invented before we had "real" vacuum cleaners...at one time they were gasoline-powered, then the invention of electricity changed the machine.  There was a great writeup on this in a past VCCC newsletter detailing the history of the central vacuum which this information comes from.  Maids of the early-1900s walked downstairs to the basement and threw the knife switch, which started the machine, and it was supposed to be left running for a while.  Wonder how many maids they went through that way, considering all of the exposed wiring, terminals, etc., and the high voltage going through them.  High possibility for injury, electrocution, etc., and this is true...recently I heard about a 1910 Spencer removed from a house, still in working condition amazingly enough, powered by a knife switch on the wall.  It was interesting in the sense that the motor had carbon brushes but behaved like an induction motor; the brushes were only used for starting the motor, then they snapped back centrifugally much like a start winding would.  Then after the motor gained sufficient speed, a clutch engaged the fans...of course you couldn't have any ports open until it got up to speed. 

Central vacuums, honestly, are somewhat foreign to me and something I'm largely unfamiliar with even though I've played with a few over the years...down in Texas they're really not that common.  I've since learned more by talking to people who specialize in them, however, and I do find them fascinating.  I also plan on having one installed in my future home.  However, this is just my opinion, but since they have been around for 100 years, if most people indeed preferred this method of cleaning versus the portable cleaner, wouldn't they be more popular than portable cleaners today?  But that is not the case.  It is my understanding (and from observation) that more power and performance comes at a price.  Obviously not everyone can afford a $1500+ two-motor 240V system, and some have homes that are really too small to warrant the use of a central.  Again, just from an untrained eye point of view, I do not see the point in installing a small unit in a single-story 1200-square-foot 2/1 home when a portable cleaner would work just fine. 

To me it seems that while centrals are powerful, portable vacuum technology is catching up in power.  There's also the issue of power and filtration.  I like the idea of constant power when I'm cleaning...suction, airflow, etc. that does not drop off no matter how fine the material I am picking up is.  While some central enthusiasts have told me that since the power is a lot greater in the beginning, the loss is not as noticeable; doesn't mean it's not there, though.  To my knowledge, the VacuFlo is the only unit with a dual-cyclonic arrangement as it stands now; the others either have a filter or bag arrangement which undoubtedly leads to reduced performance.  I would like to see more of that technology incorporated into centrals...I know it can be done.  On a phone conversation with another poster whom I know is a central enthusiast not too keen on the Dyson, I jokingly remarked that the Dyson is the reason that centrals will never gain popularity over portables. 

Of course, even as a die-hard Dyson fan I know that is most likely not true...I was just doing that to see what the reaction would be ;-)

Hey Venson and Motorhead,

 

Since you guys like history – check out an early GE silent film called “The Home Electrical”, promoting "electricity" and a "civilized life".  I converted and uploaded it myself.  Runtime is over 11 minutes.  A central vacuum cleaner with a keyed switch is shown at minute 2:21.  Many appliances are shown, some with lots of potential danger, I cringed a few times watching this movie.  I do not know the films date, but if you do (or want to take a guess) let me know.

 

Video here (make sure to view in “original size” vs. small size)

 

DIB

Great video, I had no idea GE produced early centrals.   I have to say, after seeing all of these early electrical devices and the potential hazards they would have had (the electric shaving mug for example), I'm glad that we've come a long way from cloth wiring and exposed terminals.  Still a great step back in time, though, and definitely a lot older than I would have imagined.  I'm guessing it's from the 1900s?  Could be teens as well, at the very latest.

I used to live in an upscale rental apartment (about 8 stories) built in the 60's that had a central vaccuum system. The suction was very poor.

CVS are more popular now than they have been since 1949.  But...........portable standalone vacuums are here for at least another 100 years.   

Venson, in the USA, the non-electric carpet sweeper has been around since 1868.  Royal since 1905.  Of course, HOOVER since June 1907 when Spangler patented and then sold the rights to BOSS HOOVER.

Carmine D.

Hi Gail,

Although I have heard of central vacuums and even central refrigeration being installed as far back as the very late 1800s and early 1900s in certain luxury mutiple dwelling spaces here in New York, I have not heard about the extensive like use of central vacuums in later years.

This is a guess but the central system in your building back in the 1960s may have performed poorly due to the main source of vacuum trouble -- people. It would be very hard to monitor and maintain a central vacuum in an apartment building with many tenants. Careless adults and children finding fun things to feed "the hole in wall" can quickly lead to problems and maintenance expense for both building owners and maintenance people.

There are specialed central vacuums (bagged with highly filtered exhausts) being sold to individual apartment and condo dwellers but for all the building we've done here in the last several years central vacuuming supplied as part of the package in multiple dwellings has never been offered, at least to my knowledge. If it were, you can be assured already expensive rents and sale prices would be marked up even higher.

Anther reason may have been a badly thought out system. By the way what part of the country was you building in?

Thanks for sharing . . .

Venson

If vacuums had not become a disposable item, we might well be on the way to centrals being the norm. Centrals got a bad rep when shag carpet came into vouge. With only air-driven power heads (pre Turbo-Cat) they failed miserably. The earliest power nozzles had the cord clipped along the length of the hose. Central vac is an idea whose time has come again, with the technology now to provide better suction and airflow, lighter hoses and so many conveniences I predict they will catch on more and more as people realize they can be installed easily in existing homes. For the cost of, say, a Kirby, a CV can be installed in most any home, and plenty of Kirbys have been sold in 1200 sq ft homes. Most people have never even heard of central vacuums. Where is the national media advertising for central vacuums? Most people who were unhappy with a central vac had one that was 1) underpowered for the home 2) had a botched installation 3) were never shown how to vacuum with the long hose. One thing to consider is the eventual loss of some airflow over time due to scarring on the tubing walls. Hundreds of times I showed the need for a new hose on an Electrolux because the existing hose would not allow the machine to pick up all 4 steel spheres in the clear plastic cup. (This is airflow, not suction, the cup is narrower toward the bottom) With a new hose, viola! snap! snap! snap! snap! The sand and grit sucked up do wear away at the interior, which is way going one unit larger than the manufacturer suggests is a good idea. I think the FlowMaxGold tubing is an excellent idea. All virgin vinyl, 5' lengths to reduce the need for cutting, and to make it easy to feed into wall cavities, and flange ends to join lengths together without additional couplings.

While it's possible they exist in some places, I've never seen central vacs advertised as part of a new build or *anybody* here in the UK having them as part of their house.

It seems CVS are more popular in Canada than the USA.  With the housing market tanking, builders and contractors will look to reduce amenities, like CVS, to make new houses more affordable.  Once the economy turns around and heads up [years], more likely to see the extras added back to new homes.

Cordless technologies will cement portables and standalone vacuums as permament fixtures for the future.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

I think you are correct about cordless technologies. They may well be the future of portable vacs.

From a Canadian stand point, at least in our area pretty much any house that is being built gets a rough in for a central vacuum. It is generally no longer an option but a standard feature.

Dusty

Yeah guys . . but do you think a central vacuum system would or would not be a practical choice for an entire multiple-dwelling facility like an apartment building or even a hotel?  Not everybody lives in a private home. 

All the scenarios that come to mind strike me as expensive and therefore would not be of much interest to the average developer.  Dishwashers and other electrical amenities, type as usuallly supplied, can be gotten cheaply by developers and contractors but, though it can be done, costs to accommodate the installation of a central vacuum system for not one but many families  is another story.

Venson

The reason I wouldn't see a CVS working in a multi-unit dwelling is: 

Have you ever seen how some people live?  The same people that would use a Kirby to try to drain the kids pool are the same ones that would use the apartment's CVS system to clean the fish bowl.  These are the same people that let the dog go poo on the new carpet and then try to suck it all up and make it go away with a communial vacuum.  YUCK, just YUCK.  But you repair guys out there know it happens.

Can you imagine the insides of some CVS used to clean up restaurants?  Yuckus! 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Been there, serviced those, haven't eaten there again.  Blah!

Dusty

The worse of the worse.  Some fastidious diners won't eat somewhere until they check out the cleanliness of the restrooms.  I say, first check out the vacuums!

Carmine D.

Just wrote:
Thanks Just.  That was priceless AND I believe it.

Venson

Hi.

Got a new question for quick survey of sorts, if you will.

How many of us regularly use our vacuums for above-the-floor tasks like cleaning walls and ceilings, blinds and draperies, mattresses and upholstery, fans and light fixtures, woodwork, etc. There used to be umpteen tools and options provided by many vacuum manufacturers for those tasks back in the day. I'm wondering if there's been a radical change in the manner in which we clean and if our vacuums' possible potential is less recognized or considered despite the higher cost of many machines.

Best,

Venson

Venson asked: How many of us regularly use our vacuums for above-the-floor tasks?

I have always used the attachments on the vacuum. My grandmother did with her model 510 Kirby, and continued to do the same with her Rainbow D. Mom, at 75, still uses the attachments for her 517 and Classic Omega Kirbys. This tendancy was passed on to my sister, though to a lesser degree, and is totally missing in my mom's sister and 5 nieces. They are the vac killers. The couple I clean for purchased, at my behest, a Sanitaire MightyMite with HEPA filter. We all refer to it as 'the baby Electrolux' I have a Filtex metal rug tool with felt pad, great for the hardwwod floors and the synthetic rug in the morning room. I use a late Model 50 rug tool on the delicate oriental rug in the library, a Lux flipover tool on the kitchen floor and scatter rugs, an above the floor tool with white bristles for dusting and upholstery. Finally, for the stairs I have a Rug Rat and a model 30 upholstery tool. With the exception of using the wide brush exclusively for walls and the telescopic wand, the original tools are relegated to the garage for the concrete floor and the vehicles. Let's see...oh, and a long hoover crevice tool, a plastic wand and a small articulating dusting brush for high moldings and ledges, a plantation blind and shutter brush, That's it. The differences in using the appropriate tool for each surface are substantial in thoroughness, time and effort exerted, and the finished appearnce of the various rugs and floor surfaces. The habit of using the attachments is learned early in one's life, or likely not at all.

Trebor

Venson wrote:

Funny you should ask Venson.  Always, tho I generally separate the two tasks: Rug cleaning and tool cleaning.  On some occasions I'll do both concurrently.  Depends.  Just bought 2 new round dusting brushes from my local vacuum store.  $5 each.  One inside the house.  One for the garage.  He took new ones out of KIRBY tool boxes.  Still in the plastic wrap. 

Carmine D. 

Carmine wrote:  Just bought 2 new round dusting brushes from my local vacuum store.  $5 each.  One inside the house.  One for the garage.  He took new ones out of KIRBY tool boxes.  Still in the plastic wrap. 

I think Kirby makes a very good duster brush. My other fave is the Lux combo brush. The larger square Eureka was nice, not sure if they still make it. Everything else seems cheap, like they just stuck something in to say a brush is included, and some of then can leave marks. I liked the old Lux white duster brush a lot. The only other vac I recall offering white bristled tools as an option was Lewyt.

So far with using the KIRBY dusting brush, I am impressed.  The bristles appear to be horse hair.   Am I correct?

Carmine D.

Carmine wrote: So far with using the KIRBY dusting brush, I am impressed.  The bristles appear to be horse hair.   Am I correct?

Your are correct, sir. All of the other bristles in the Kirby attachment kit are synthetic.

Trebor

Thanks for the answer, Trebor!

Carmine D.

Carmine wrote: Thanks for the answer, Trebor!

Ah, Carmine, ever the consummate gentleman, you are most welcome. I can see why your wife snagged you and won't let you go!

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Actually, my dear Wife keeps me around because of the dog!

Carmine D.

Carmine wrote: Actually, my dear Wife keeps me around because of the dog!

Is that because you:

a) vacuum up the fur, b) scoop the poo, c) share Scoopy snacks with the pooch, d) pay rent to sleep in the doghouse, e) all of the above

Trebor

All the above + the dog and I are a pair and she likes the dog better than me.  In my case, it's the reverse of the saying:  Love me, love my dog. 

Carmine D.

Carmine wrote...she likes the dog better than me

So, your pooch says, "Love me, love my buddy Carmine!" and your wife doesn't want the dog to be unhappy!  Good Boy, Carmine! As long as you are happy, and you get your shots. Woof!

Trebor

Like butter and toast, we're known from coast to coast.

Carmine D.

Carmine,

You really are a good sport!

Trebor

Trebor wrote:

Thank you.  It comes with age.

Carmine D.

Seems the new question for today, at least as far as I'm concerned, is to buy or not to buy.

Following is a link to an article that popped up online this morning at the New York
Times website. It seems that, quoting the article -- "A vast electronic spying operation has infiltrated computers and has stolen documents from hundreds of government and private offices around the world . . ."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/technology/29spy.html?scp=2&sq=china&st=cse

The Chinese government has NOT been named as a responsible party though the large part of this activity has been found to originate on its soil. Nonetheless and despite how meaningless it might seem for just one part of the world take on on its own, do you think a consumer boycott on buying appliances -- vacuums, TVs etc., that are made there might be a significant stand to take?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

No for mutually beneficial trade and business reasons.  Thought you might enjoy this article when you have time to read.  It makes the case much better than I.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/mar/22/how-china-will-reinvigorate-itself-amid-global-cri/

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Thanks Carmine but I am still disturbed, and when am I not, due to the weight of the accusation. If whoever instigating this were sniffing merely for industrial heads-ups I'd feel less disquieted. But what on earth as the Dahli Lama's information base, or the Pope's for that matter have to do with anything?

The spread of online spying is not new and the U.S. may somehow be included in the bunch. However, the deliberate use of spyware to "invade" the information systems of organizations and government offices around the world by a nation or having it occur in a nation of note can't be dismissed easily by outsiders or anyone as just some sort of hackers' prank.

My larger point of contemplation is whether a firm stand on the matter would bear any real effect on bringing and end to the problem. I don't want war declared. I don't want the Chinese government taking any more people out back to be shot for malfeasance. Nonetheless, I would be glad to soon hear a statement from the Chinese government at least claiming it is its full intention to set things right.

I remain highly adverse to giving my money to someone who won't love me right. I'm funny that way.

Venson

Venson wrote:

More details are coming out.  Appears that the Chinese gov't isn't behind it and the US gov't is/never was a target.  WRT the Dahli Lama connection:  Recall the recent clashes between Buddhists monks and Chinese police.  Possibly a motive.

Carmine D.

Hi,

Anybody got ideas on how to properly build one of those collection containers they make for hook up to a regular or central vac? (They average about $70 in price if you buy one retail.) They are intended for nasty work like picking up large not only dust but large debris that you wouldn't normally expose a CVS or household machine to.

I thought I'd try to make my own. I bought a five-gallon plastic paint bucket with a lid that has a very good seal. Now I just have to look for a 2-inch attachment port too support a bigger hose for incoming air and a smaller port for outgoing air to attach to my regular vac. It appears obvious that a shop vac type pleated filter is needed but I am not aware of the part you'd need to mount one on.

Venson

Hi Venson:

Sounds interesting.  Plumbing supply for the ports. Possibly a pleated filter with the filter holder [like those on the shop vacs] and cover with a large paper filter secured by a gasket/elastic holder.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

A few screws/nuts into the pleated filter holder might work.

Carmine D.