Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Technically, the Rainbow vacuum was the first to not lose suction.  It uses a more primitive dual cyclone design with water as a pre-filter.   If the Rainbow didn't have such a ridiculously high price and clumsy power nozzle, it would be a pretty good vacuum.  I don't know why they require you to hold a button down to keep the power nozzle operating.  One would think that they would use a simple 2-way switch.  All that on/off cycling can't possibly be good for the power nozzle motor.   The Rainbow uses an innovative brushless motor.  It would be a pretty good $800 vacuum with a better power nozzle. 

Hi Dyson is,

To the best of my recollection the Rexair/Rainbow was never pitched as a no-suction loss machine.  What was promised was clean air emission by way of the contained "rain storm" in the water pan.  Also, cyclonic was a term never used in any Rainbow or Rexair pitches or ads.  The design uses incoming air to stir up the water in the water pan to wet down and capture the dirt in the incoming air stream. The spinning separator repels water droplets laden with dirt while allowing air to pass through.  In theory this was a great idea but lacking in real effectiveness depsite manufacturer's claims.  As you see, they got around to including after-filtering.  Usually when you take one of these apart the sight is not pretty.

The switch on the hose for the power nozzle is a safety device something like the dead-man's bar on a power lawn mower.  If you let go the motor stops.  Maybe it is a bit of a nuisance but it would make me feel better if I had young-uns around while I was cleaning.  The most notable thng about kids and household accidents is that they so often occur with just a momentary turn of the eye. Not many manufacturers think of stuff like that.  Vacuum cleaners bearing the same along with lights to let you know the machine is actually plugged in are to be commended -- even if not hte greatest performers -- for the acknowledgment of home safety issues.

Rainbow, as a very intersting piece of science, would be a good buy at about at around the $500 mark -- it probably takes about half of that to make one.  What must be remembered is that the use of water as the filtering medium causes the bothersome inconvenience of a lot of extra wait.  As well, Rainbows should not be run -- and  I'm pushing it -- for more than 15 or 20 minutes without a water change and clean up and proper storage after use are a must if you want to keep one in tip-top order.  That extra fuss may well detract from the value of this machine to possible buyers and may discourage daily use when it is a household's only or primary vacuum.

The vacuum of note that uses cyclonic is the Filter Queen which for years maintained good suction between emptyings due to air being directed to swirl around the filter cone it uses in place of a bag.  Even ths only lasts for so long once dirt begins to build up behind the metal piece inside the dust container that induces the air swirl.  Nonetheless, the tank is of a generous size and you can clean several times before you need to empty the machine.

Best,

Venson

The rainbows way of dirt filtration was really born out of accident,the investors in the program were loosing their shirts,and in a desperation move the enginers put water in the pan,and it worked and the famous rexair/rainbow company was saved...........

Thanks for mentioning that mole.  That's quite true.

Regards,

Venson

Hi Venson, the problems with both the rainbow and filter queen is that they are very user unfriendly.The same complaints over and over again,heavy,$#%*bersome,to much of a hassle to use.Thes machines are products that are antiquated,and sold in an antiquated way,like kirby...........

mole

Hi mole,

Point well taken but of the two, I never thought Filter Qeen was such a bad deal for the relatively young and/or able-bodied.  Weight differences weren't all that significant between it and other machines during its heyday when you recall what the very popular Electroluxes and Hoovers of the time weighed. 

I bought my first brand new one m-m-m years ago when they came out with the very first power nozzle -- the little 10 - or 11-inch German add-on  -- and the caster set with cord reel.  I had of course often worked with older models prior to buying.  Filter Queen's best points were that you could clean quite well, in my case, for near a month without emptying, great air filtration, well-made and highly efficient attachments. FQ when tested as a straight suction machine usually got good scores for surface litter pick on carpeting and long before the little electric or air-driven mini-nozzles appeared the FQ's slide-on brush for the upholstery nozzle was hard to beat. It also provided perfect air exhaust placement and very quiet operation. The caster set with cord reel did prove a problem on stairs.  Models with the regular cord could easily be detached from the wheel set and stair cleaning was no big deal.

I can on ocassion forgive extra weight if a machine is well-made and durable.  If you got a few miles of carpet to cover and need good dirt capacity Kirby, though I'd strongly suggest getting a decent but light canister for above the floor use, I can also forgive Kirby because because the newer models are quite good on carpet.  What cannot be excused is overly inflated price.  If either FQ or Kirby were puchasable for around $600 when new they'd be a sensible enough choice for larger homes. 

As for Rainbow, as I always say, it constitutes a nice but now unneeded science experiment.  On an ongoing basis, who needs all the futzing around?

Best,

Venson

Rainbow owner here..E2 2 speed. I just wanted to say that at my job they are forcing us overtime six days a week and I havn't had time to get out the rainbow because I agree to get it out is really an all day event! So I been using the Kenmore canister because it's quicker. But..Since i havn't used it in a couple of months...I can tell a pretty big difference with dust..I'm pretty good at changing the water way before it gets gross. But according to what I've read..even with doing that my machine will still get dirty inside. I notice nothing but a clean smell when turned on..SO if these are so vile inside..shouldnt  I smell it? Anyway..it is a pain to use but I still would not want to be without it to give the house a good cleaning a few times a year. Theres a big difference to me..The house stays cleaner longer when it's used.

Hi Mark,given that your e-2 is under a year old,the lower endof the motor should still be nice and clean,you are one of the few that use your machine properly.I would suggest changing the internal hepa filter,there is also one inside the machine,the exhaust filter is on the back of the machine behind the the grill where you wrap the cord around the hooks,that danged machine should have a cord reel for that price.For the price of this portable cleaner, and others, CENTRAL VACUUMS are  the way to go.

mole........

Hi mole,

Speaking of central vacuum systems, are there any self-contained types that you might recommend for condo or co-op owners?

Venson

Hi Venson, there are a few centrals that would merit looking into for condo applications.

1 the sweep away by GALAXIE SYSTEMS[very new to the market]

2 the vax system by nutone

3 the condo lux by aerus/electrolux

mole

There are two hepa filters? I only see one....and it's still bright white..I looked through the manual and see nothing about a 2nd hepa. How do I change it and how often should it be changed when machine is used properly? For those who rebuild Rainbows..I'd be curious to see what the inside of a properly used one looks like after years of use.

Hi Mark,it's called an internal air filter,part#R-7287es.The unit has to come apart to change it.It's not listed in the manual,and even the rainbow sales people dont know it's there because rexair doesnt want them to know about it.So much for water filtering the air..................

  mole

I did some looking and found that the E1 Rainbow has an internal cooling filter but not the E2.

Hi Mark,according to rexair in troy your e2 uses an internal cooling filter,sort of looks like an automotive,round air cleaner........

mole

I noticed a website offering every product for eash model...The e1 model they offered the internal cooling filter...But for the e2..they didn't..SO this internal cooling..Is this hepa?

Hi Mark,no it's not a hepa rated filter,my only quess would be a pre hepa filter,that is used for cooling and air deflection,the reason for it being there is really undefined,My figuring is for when consumer reports rates the machine,it cuts down on the emmisions for the period of the testing.

mole

Hi Mole,

I think this would mean that the Rainbow may have a true by-pass system that compartmentalizes the motor and fan chambers.  Air coming into the suction port is not used to cool the motor but exhausts separately as in many wet-and-dry shop vacs. The second filter would be used to clean air brought in to air inlets meant expressly for cooling the motor.  If this is the arrangement, it helps to ward off motor damage due to accidents if the machine is tipped or over-filled and I would thnk may even lower shock hazard in such cases.  In my soap suds story, the Rainbow D2 I had began to sputter as the foam got past the fans and into the armature area of the motor. I unplugged it before it could short out.

Hey Mark, um-m . . . could we take yours apart for a look? :)

Best,

Venson

Thanks DIB!  Now we don't have to take Mark's apart.  In any event this constitutes more interesting science.  I'd love to see one of these motors au natural but hope that doesn't mean having to pay for the experience.

Thanks again,

Venson

Well....I've been curious to see what the hepa looks like anyway and I've looked at it closely...it still looks and smells very clean.. I've has this rainbow 1 yr and 3 mos..I have used it atleast 30 times..My house is wall to wall berber and tile in bathrooms 1300 sq feet home. Granted I change the water every 20 minutes..I may go a tad longer but the water has been at worst dark mop water...,mostly just cloudy with cat hair in it...I'm telling ya....I can tell a difference in how long the house stays clean..I'm a neat freak and a clean freak...If I use the regular Kenmore..It does a good job...But I'm trying to figure out if this water is not filtering the dirt like some say and it's bouncing off the water wouldn't the hepa be NASTY???? I mean it's a sealed system..all the air comes straight out of that hepa.

Thanks Guy's for the information,could this be the differences between the e2 and the e2 2speed machine,so the e2- 2 speed machine uses the sr motor and the e2 uses the carbon brush motor,hence the cooling filter.How has this sr motor worked out? any problems with the computor control boards?.

mole

Hi,Actually Rexair did use the fact the Rainbow would not loose suction as part of their marketing campaign!

I collect vintage Rexair products and have a 1961 Model D "chrome dome" which still has its original Parents,Good Housekeeping & Better Homes and Gardens hang tags intact and attached to its handle!

The back of the better homes and gardens tag has a Rexair Ad which shows the cleaner and bears the text....

"Sick and Tired of Cleaning Dust?,Rainbow will curtail your annoying dust problem!,All cleaners use airflow to clean,but because they force dirt through bags and dry filters airflow is reduced and decreases thier abilty to pick up dirt,as dirt clogs bag and filter pores airflow is further impeded!,thats why they clean much better with a new bag or filter...RAINBOW USES NO BAGS OR DRY FILTERS! the dust is trapped in Rainbows turbulent water bath which has no pores to clog.there is never a reduction in airflow,never a drop in cleaning efficiency..WITH RAINBOW YOU DONT CHASE DUST,YOU TRAP IT IN WATER!"

Its interesting to note that Rainbow didnt get a power nozzle option until 1974!,I dont understand that..RCA Whirlpool vacs had them in the late 50's..so did Lewyt...and of course the Electrolux G had one in 1960! What took Rexair so long?

The Hepa filter added on the current models was done because water doesnt trap all the dust,some things such as talcum powder,plaster and ash,blow right past the water and out into the exhaust air.

When Rainbow came out with their D3 model in 1980  this fact became quite obvious as they had routed the exhaust under a transparent dome,before long all the dust that blew past the water had clouded the inner dome and owners started complaining and asking why there was dust buildup when the water was supposed to trap it all.

Rainbow quickly dropped the d3 after only a few years and came out with the d4 in 1984 which deliberatly routed the exhaust air under the bottom of the cleaner so it never passed through the translucent dome...clever huh?!

The current models have a Hepa filter..(or hepa "neutralizer" as the slick salesman call them to avoid questions ) because they got sick of taking a beating in the consumer reports tests which placed rainbow at the bottom of the list when it came to blow by!...so now by the addition of this filter,the cleaner doesnt really have "constant suction" because the hepa DOES become blocked with dust and impedes the airflow.

I have to agree with a previous poster,I think the price of the current Rainbows are out of line and the slick used car salesman type high pressure tactics used to sell them are ridiculous.

Why not just drop the price and market the cleaner in normal fashion?

I went to a Rainbow dealer recently looking for old parts for one of my d2's and couldnt believe the fast talk and buzzwords that were being thrown about to sell the machine. It was like the old snake oil salesman bit.

They would'nt even call the e2 a vacuum (which it quite obviously is) they would only call it "the rainbow system" the salesman are also told not to use the word "suction" but rather "airflow" instead. suction is airflow!

Its all pretty pretentious.

That being said,I love the classic d & d2 series of Rainbow,in my opinion that was the best cleaner they ever made and they should never have changed it.

It really was the machine of tommorow,today!  todays vacuums arent futuristic. Modern technology isnt fun like it was in the 50's and 60's when everything looked like something from the Jetsons.

I dont mind the wieght of the machine or the "work" it takes to use and care for it. I enjoy using my Rainbow D2 and like the unique water filtration system. Its never a chore. Its an amazing machine!

Rexair even markets Rainbow fragerances which smell incredible.just a few drops and your home smells great!

Today all the vacuums are ugly plastic throw away piles of crap,made for todays ugly plastic throw away culture....our culture declined when the fins came off our cars.

Hi..I'm glad I found this place

Somewhere over the rainbow my rainbow d3C came all cracked

Darn DHL...looke like it got caught in a twister in Kansas

So now I search for a good case

Does anyone have any opinions on the strong points on the various models?

I want the water pick up feature & I believe that started with the D3

Does the D2 pick up water?

I like the sound of my d3C motor

I  know the D4 motor is different has anyone\heard the various motors

& would like to comment on the sound?

I have heard the new E models are really LOUD

I have a bird & need the strong smooth purring motor

I really like my D3C

but its really badly messed up cracks screw holes broken

& still hoping DHL might make some restitution.

Bad thing about the rainbow is some particles may not enter the water

oily type etc smoke ash so I have been adding a drop pf simple green to the basin water

I feel it might help dissolve a better catch a oily particle

Any comments  on this laborious but inventive vac are appreciated

as instead of trying to find a new case & basin for this I might opt for another used in a different model.

Hi,

You can do wet pick-up with any Rainbow or Rexair made.  Squeegee attachments, first the standard bare floor tool fitted with rubber strips in place of brushes, were around all the way back to the Rexair days.  The D2 offered a better designed tool for floor scrubbing and wet pick-up. Having owned a few of these over time and though it will increase weight, I strongly suggest that you use the four-quart water pan and keep an extra hose on hand for "wet work".  I never liked using the same hose or the metal wands for dry and wet jobs.  You should also be sure to keep a watchful eye on the cleaner as there is no way to prevent it from over-filling otherwise.

Rexair/Rainbow is and has always been an acquired taste as far as vacuums go.  You either love them or  find you can quite easily live without them.  The water needed for filtering adds extra weight -- not necessarily a problem in a single-story home but a pain for some when moving up and down stairs. Not great either when what you're doing -- like cleaning the top of bookcases -- requires you to tote the cleaner along. 

Depending on the individual, maintenance may or may not prove an irksome chore. Rainbow is not a machine you just take out of the closet and get up and go with or then put away immediately after use.  Without proper care, thorough cleaning and drying after use and regular water changes while in use, investment in a Rainbow is a pure waste of time and money. To do otherwise means dirt that does not get caught in the water pan may end up on the fans and also build up on the inner unit housing.  

It's good that you are aware of the dry pick-up limitations.  It is not wise to use a Rainbow to clean soot, ash or plaster dust but it's probably not a good idea to do that with any household vacuum though I've seen some old Luxes used to plow through all manner of stuff and still keep going.  Anyway, my fun Rainbow story is the time I accidentally picked up powdered laundry detergent with a D2 I owned. No, no bubbles everywhere but the sputtering of the motor scared me into believing I'd killed it but good.  However, it just took a couple of days to let the unit sit and dry out before it was as good as new.

The D4 used a by-pass motor.  In other words, the armature, etc., were not cooled by air from the suction stream but a separate cooling fan.  This would mean less damage possibilties if water got pulled into the fan chamber.  A link to a schematic follows:

http://www.elkypro.com/hoops2005/vacuum_parts/rexair/D4.html

Part are available but for what Rainbows cost used these days, I suggest getting another whether or not DHL comes through.  Being an eBay and online shopper it's best to have the package insured.  It costs a couple of dollars more but proves worth it in situations like yours.

Here's hoping DHL refunds you in full.  Best of luck . . .

Venson

Thanks

I like it for spraying the rugs with water & wet vacking

sort of light clean

I have been under filling the basin so as not to pick up too much

I do watch

D4 blew air down by pass is it a better motor?

I like the look of the D2/D3 motor

This is my idea then

since the d2/d3 motor is the same

I can alos try to put my motor in a D2 casing

depends what I find

Wonder if it would work?

Rainbows plastic is fragile

It was shipped free so I had no choice of insurance but I think they give min $100 anyway

Damage may have resulted from inproper packaging ot latent stress cracks broke open

Its a mess you'd cry if you sae it

I spent a day trying to glue the seams together as they weren't in half yet.

I agree its not to carry up stairs

& its not a everyday only if you have one vac

but as a 2nd novelty it;s useful.

I have the idea to spin it not over the basin a few seconds to purge any residual water from the system

I am one who likes to see the junk & its alot easier to throw out the water then to clean out the hoover windtunnel & shake the hepa

Yikes but what powder that thing endlessly picks up got me thinking I did need to do some wet cleaning..

Cord is even missing the ground wire

So the only good thing on it is the motor & dolly

I might just be able to pop it into another case or even fit it to the D2 if I find a good one with dead motor...

I had read the D3 was the first approved for wet pick up though

so I am not sure what the difference in the D2 & D3 is...

Thanks Again  for your help

Tha rainbow history site liste the D3 with its new cooler running motor as the first rainbow approved for "wet pick up"

Does that mean the previous models couldn't do it or weren't approved to do it?

The motors in the D2 & D3 are the same but I guess they could be hooked up differently?

Calling Mr Bubbles for help....

Would the D2 construction not be good for wet pick up?

I really want one on the older R2D2's but I would like to pick up minimal water too without it sputtering

Thanks...

camelotshadow wrote:

Hi Camelot,

I have never heard of any specific "approval" for wet pick-up being given regarding either Rexair or Rainbow.  Yet, as I stated before there have been attachments made by Rexair specifically for wet pick-up at least as far back as the Model C Rexair and for the D2 Rainbow  --- I've owned one -- there was an optional tool for floor scrubbing and wet pick-up.  It was similar to the head on the first Hoover floor washer.

Rexair/Rainbow has been using water as a filtration medium for years and even though these at one point all metal, ungrounded vacuums could be tipped over while in use, knocked over on a flight of stairs, etc. etc., UL apparently found no fault with them.

I have a Model C that I haul out for small wet emergencies.  I use it with the four quart metal water pan that came with a Model B I bought for stuff like draining out the dishwasher after a breakdown or defrosting a refrigerator from the olden days.  Any Rainbow can be used for wet pick-up but as I also said prior, you have to be vigilant to assure that you do let the water pan overfill.  In that sense, because of low capacity, Rainbow is not really all that useful for wet pick-up duty. Other non-water type vacuums that also to be good for wet pick-up tasks use a floatation valve to prevent motor damage or the possibility of electrical shock.  Rainbow has made no accommodation for the like and  -- as a common sense call -- I would imagine that is why the company can or should not seriously recommend the cleaner for wet jobs.  Too many users might not be watchful.

Also due to its limitations, I didn't give Rainbow's carpet cleaning paraphenalia a second thought.  It's simpler to rent or buy a domestic machine for the job plus get a better result. 

Yet for all this discussion, I can't imagine many household jobs where using a Rainbow for wet pick-up is feasible.  I wouldn't haul one out and put it together just for the small spills it can handle.  I'd get a mop.  I wouldn't use it for floor scrubbing as my use of cleaning substances would be limited.  No suds allowed -- remember?

Regards,

Venson

Thanks, that helps alot..

I have found the damp cleaning to be a plus

Not a daily vac but really helps.

I guess a rental or pro is best

but thats good when you don't have to move things from one side to another.

I can clean in sections

My D3C is not even grounded as someone cut the ground

I can understand that as I have been working with Humpty Dumpty.

I have been half filing it then what I do is use a qt sprayer & spray a section of rug w a dilute simple green solution to freshen & lift nap & purge dust.

Its been cleaning my whole apt lil by lil.

Its not alot of water as some is left in the carpet

I wouldn';t haul it out to pick up a qt of milk

but I feel the apt needs the wet clean as the neighbor smokes & over time it permeates everywhere

When I walk in my hallway now it smells alot better for being next to SMOKEY.

Thanks alot

I'll watch out for the suds

Venson wrote:
Hi Venson,

I've seen the redesigned AquaMate for the latest incarnation of the E2 and I have to say it has a lot of potential, definitely an improvement over the previous versions (which I didn't think were that bad).  For one it is now completely self-contained, the solution tank is built into the unit itself; no dolly tank or faucet hookup like before.  Second of all it is motorized with a fairly aggressive-looking revolving brush...yes, it is designed to be used with the electric hose, but just the wet pickup-compatible electric hose of the new E2.  I don't believe it is meant to be used with the electric hose on the previous E2 and E-series models.

I agree with you about using the Rainbow for floor scrubbing, though...seems like it would be more work than it's worth.  I prefer the old-fashioned mop and bucket instead, the cleanup is a lot easier than rinsing out and washing off the tank, hose, nozzle etc.

Just weighing in,
-MH

Rainbows in my experience do not have a lot of suction to begin with and very weak airflow. Example, a fairly recent E2 I have in good condition with the HEPA filter removed so there are no restrictions anywhere only pulls 50 inches of water lift at the hose end and fails to pull my BAIRD meter off the bottom of the scale. An old and inexpensive Hoover PowerMax canister pulls 58 inches of water lift at the hose end and registers a 7 on my BAIRD meter. A Kenmore Elite canister pulls over 84 inches of water lift at the end of its eight foot long hose (with a suction leak due to the irregular shape of the hose end) and pulls my BAIRD meter right off the scale, past 10. For what Rainbow charges their measured performance is quite low.

WOW, I realize how dead this site is anymore when I see a resurrected thread from 2007, and that's the newest post. In any case the OP, back in 2007, mentioned the Rainbow was a good machine but overpriced. Agreed, there is a contender on the market now, the Sirena, that is comparable to the Rainbow at a lower price around $899,though with good negotiation skills you can get it for less. Time will tell if the quality and longevity is there as I have a 40 year old Rainbow, I will let you know if my three month old Sirena lives that long, but it does have a 10 year motor warranty. Sirena uses an Italian designed, Chinese built motor that moves 90 CFM on high speed, and 18CFM on low. As a collector I can say that it is a pretty good vacuum. Maybe not as refined as the Rainbow, but everything is very livable. It does not have the digital motor. No direct connect wands. Slightly larger water basin. I am not a fan of the power nozzle (a direct copy of the E2 nozzle complete with the hold me to use me switch on the hahdle. Only drawback, as with any water vac, is that your daily maintenance is a little more than a bagged machine that you just wrap back up and put in the closet, but if you are dedicated to a water vac, this is a lower cost alternative.

Just, Rainbows don't have "digital motors" by which I think you really mean brushless reluctance motors. Rainbow uses and has always used very conventional commutated universal motors. The current motor is a small single stage motor, not the big two stage motors of old. They have very weak airflow and suction compared to modern canister vacuums. My E2 barely pulls my BAIRD meter off the bottom of the scale at 0. An old Electrolux Silverado pulls the BAIRD meter up to 7 and my modern Kenmore Elite pulls the BAIRD meter off the scale past 10. Also, 90 cfm airflow is only so-so. Most modern canister vacuums produce more. A simple Pro-Team back pack vacuum pulls 110 cfm. An old Hoover Dimension 1000 pulls more than that. As for filtration, water vacs still need HEPA filters because all of the dust entering the water chamber is not entrained in the water. Very light particles get past the motor and require HEPA filtration to capture. A modern bagged canister vacuum using a good cloth HEPA dust bag and filters does every bit as well.