Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

It's about time they launched the Dyson Digital Motor into other vacuums (not just the DC12 in Japan!).  More and more vacuums in the UK are copying the dual and root cyclone technology as well!

The DC14 has had a re-launch into the new colours in the UK:

          Standard    All Floors   Allergy    Animal

Thanks for the photos.

Dyson news, from a 6/15/07 article... 

VACUUM cleaner giant Dyson Ltd, spurred by the success of its operations in Malaysia, plans to produce eight new vacuum cleaners for the global market.

Dyson international and commercial director Sir Richard Needham said the growth margins from its investment in Johor are 20 per cent higher than that of its European operations.

"This profitability allows us to expand our R&D (located in the UK) and produce new products," he said at a briefing for businessmen in Reading, near London, recently.

Dyson expects to sell between four million and five million vacuum cleaners this year.

The company, which commands a 25-30 per cent market share of vacuum cleaners globally, recorded a STG500 million (RM3.42 billion) turnover last year and profits exceeding STG100 million (RM683 million).

It is the number one seller in Europe, the US and Australiasia, while its DC12 product is the single largest selling vacuum cleaner unit in Japan.

Full Story here.

DC18,  can you link the UK Dyson copies/clones here so I can take a look?

Thanks,

DysonInventsBig

Thanks for the news link!  Gosh 8 New Vacuum Cleaners for the Globle Market  I do hope they are something different with a new cyclone system that is totally new!  Unlike Dyson to mention what they have planned!  James Dyson usually likes to keep things close to his chest!

I do feel they still have things to improve on!  The DC18 Slim is one of the best uprights they have done for a while although it can not go fully flat on the floor like the DC03 does!  Although the DC18 has the flexability to have different floor heads attached if they wanted to go down that route!  Why did they re-launch the DC08/DC08 Telescope wrap as DC19 and DC20 Stowaway using Root 8 Cyclone dropping the Root 12! 

Do you mean the DC14 pictures?  They are off the UK DYson Website:  http://www.dyson.co.uk/range/range_overview.asp?model=DC14&sinavtype=menu

DC18

Swift Zero            Turboforce Zero       Performance Zero

All by Vax (UK)

LG (UK) have removed there Dyson versions only the Compressor is there!

Samsung UK Version SC9120 Multi Chamber System with a difference!

Thanks for the replies!

Suppose it is unfair but his fans and followers (like me!) do expect new and exciting products from his design lab!  But then he has always said that is what Dyson is about making things work better and being different too!  I know the DDM is going to be big, it's already in the DC12 Cylinder in Japan (which is a big success) and adapted for the Dyson Airblade so it has it uses in many things!  I believe they are already working on the 3th/4th generation of this motor looking at like you said shrinking the DDM electronics!   I did wonder if the 1st vacuum in the UK with DDM would be the DC18 Slim but it was not!   I'm surprised the handle weight of the DC15 The Ball is the same as the DC18 Slim.   One of the many reason I like the slim is the fact the hose/wand is the same diameter as the DC07/DC14 and prevoius model unlike the DC15 yet both have the same motor (1200 watt!).  Also that it is lighter, I think that is the way vacuums need to go!  The hose is shorter on the DC15 too!  Maybe the DDM will feature in these new vacuums!?

I didn't see any of the Tour De France!  The DC03 Pre and Post Motor filters are the same size just different inside both being HEPA.  I wouldn't say they were small, compared to other Dyson Filters.  In fact I would say the total surface area is probably bigger!  Probably about 2 and half inches in diameter and about 5 inches in height, each.  Not sure of the exact size of both will try and find out! When the DC03 was launched it had the Big filter surface of any Dyson and I think at the time it was launched any other vac on the UK market (probably still does to an extent today!).  The Post Motor filter was also designed to disfuss the air leaving the machine.  It amazes me it is still available on Dyson's UK line up and still in some UK shops after all this time!  It is light to use, the only Dyson upright to lie flat on the floor and go under low furniture and can be hung on the wall for compact storage!  I believe it was a very popular Dyson model which is probably why it is still available.  I thought once the slim was launched the DC03 would go but not yet, it still has advantages over the DC18 Slim!

Thanks for the info on inventions. I'm no vac dealer myself.  I've always had an interest in vacuums and especially since James Dyson came about.  His investions are an inspuration to many people!  So you have invented some widgets then? And your family too, cool!  It must be nice to see though inventions at large! I've always had an interest in design/inventions, and have followed James Dyson since the first DC01 came out and continue to!  He is just different to the normal that is one of the many things I like about him and his inventions!

I know his Dual Cyclone patent has ran out but I thought the Root Cyclone patent had a few years left!?  But so many are copying that now and you don't see Dyson acting on it!  Well you don't hear about it! Probably he has a new cyclone system in the wings to replace both Dual, Root and US Level 3 Root!  I was surprised he didn't use the new Level 3 Root Cyclone in a new version of the DC14 for the UK!?

I've only got to know about Sebo through a family members who say they are very good!  I know they have a bag but that aside for a minute they do use technology and incorporate it into their models. Apart from Dyson most if not all UK vacuums are cheap plastic looking things with no real thought gone intot them.  Sebo looks like they have thought about the machine like Dyson does!  I've not seen in the UK any other vac that uses computer controlled height adjustment in an Upright that senses the floor type and adjusts the cleaning head for you to suit giving optimium cleaing, or shuts off the machine if a blockage appears if the users carries on using it to protect the motor/belt!  

Interesting reading on Sebo V Dyson, thanks for th link.  Dyson needs to come out with a commercial range, I thought he would have replaced the ConstantMax (DC04) in the UK with a DC07/DC14 version by now! 

I do hope these new vacuums of Dyson are different and bring new technologies to the floor care market.  I do beleive once his DDM is introduced throught out the whole Dyson Vacuum Range Globally he will be onto another winner.  One thing they must be greener to use than current motors!?

Take care

DC18

P.S. Hope you enjoyed the other photos/links to Dyson Copies!?

Your more than welcome.  Many thnaks for the links to the James Dyson Lectures.  I enjoyed watching and listening to them!   DDM will be hugh for Dyson once it goes 'large' in more Dyson products. They adapted I believe for the Airblade!  From the lectures they are on version 2 and 3 of it!  I wonder if one of the 8 new vacuums is robotic and if all 8 will feature the DDM!?  About a month back a read some press articles that some launches will take place later this year and early next year!  Not sure what, well must be some vacuum cleaners if they re planning 8 models globally!!

The DC12 was rumoured to be coming here in the UK but has yet to make it!  It's a ideal updated version of the DC05 light and small cylinder (canister) cleaner which would be good in the UK.  It seems light, samll storage yet powerful vacuums seems to be the latest craze!!

Thanks again for the links very interesting.

Thanks

DC18

If correct, 8 upcoming new vacuum cleaner launches by Dyson is excessive, even by their standards. Here’s some of my predictions…

1) DC12 / (Baby?)
Dyson’s tiny canister has done well in the Japan - even at a high price, as the Japanese demand for small, hi-tech, UK-designed goods has proven consistent. It’s very likely it’ll be launched in the western markets soon, especially if they’ve evolved the Dyson Digital Motor to bring the component cost down. DC12 was even shown (then pulled) on UK electrical websites at the start of the year. I personally don’t have a Dyson cleaner at the moment, I’m waiting for this one – it would suit my (apartment) needs to a tee!

2) DC17 (Level 3 Root Cyclone)
Currently only sold in the US market, presumably as a desire to achieve maximum scores with the independent consumer tests. It’s quite likely it’ll be available in other markets at some point soon, if the new separation technology has been well proven so far.

3) Dyson ‘Robot’ cleaner
I’d like to think that with 8 machines rumoured to launch, this would be at least one of them. The patent filings for the mains cable tracking method sounds plausible. It they did go with this, they would likely also add a battery-powered version too, for folks that have money to burn on Lition-ion cells.

4) Dyson ‘KnuckleDuster’
KnuckleDuster is a new trademark that Dyson have applied for earlier this year:-

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-journal/t-tmj/journals/6680/domestic/2447617.html

My guess would be that it’s either a cleaning tool accessory or more likely a follow up to the DC16 handheld cleaner. Dyson have likely recognised the importance of having a new, lower priced item each year for the x-mas gift buying session.

5) Dyson ‘SonicHead’
A few patents filed for this technology which uses ultra-sonic waves instead of a brush bar to dislodge the carpet pile.

6) Commercial Dyson (ConstantMAX)
The ConstantMax commercial cleaner has been discontinued for a while now. The commercial cleaning sector is a huge market currently exploited by their competitors. You can’t help but think that they’d want to stir this up at some point in the future.

Good predictions!  8 new vacuums sounds excessive but then again Dyson is a growing company globally.  I take it the 8 are acroos different markets! Plus other projects in the pipeline like the return at some point of the washing machine!  They have launch 5 or 6 not long ago...DC16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and DC21, although 8 in one go is excessive!  I'm hoping the DDM will feature in a few of them, and hopfully like you say the DC12 will comer over here, well a newer version of it!   The commercial market is an area I can't understand why Dyson has not launched a replacement for the DC04 ConstantMax, but then again the DDM could feature in a future Commercial product after the newer versions are complete using smaller electronics!  The ‘KnuckleDuster’ sounds interesting!  Will the Level 3 Root Cyclone feature in any of these new models or is there a new Dyson cyclonic system in the pipeline due to on going projects into cyclonic technology! 

With vacuums becoming smaller and lighter (which seems to be the craze in some markets!) Dyson needs to look at making his uprights more flexible and adaptable with the DC18 Slim going towards thoughs area's.

DC18

In one sense, the digital motor could be good for a commercial cleaner, as it would potentially give the machine a longer life. However, in a lot of commercial environments, strong suctions power isn’t a major factor. Initial purchase cost is. Say you’re a facility manager with a  £500 cleaning equipment budget. Do you buy 4 cleaners at £100 each (and £100 on replacement bags) or 2 high price cleaners at £200 each? With the first choice you can afford to have a few machines spare. There’s also the problem of theft, if you’re using a recognisable high ticket consumer item within a workplace.

The Dyson motor, by all accounts, produces more noise than a standard motor. As a result, the DC12 has two power settings. But using the DDM might reduce some of the criticism of the Dyson uprights, in that they’re heavier than most.

Ive owned three Dysons in my lifetime; DC01, DC02, DC03. Dyson may have been there with "firsts" and "innovations," but I had to spend an excess of £500 on one Dyson model to be repaired and that was outwith the 2 year guarantee on one of my models. The DC03 brush control was by far the worst upright Ive owned second to an Oreck XL. For starters the brush control is a waste of money. Dyson at the time stated that lifetime meant nothing to pay for in the future. However the Brush Control on most Dyson uprights involve a permanent drive belt which has to be replaced if it breaks by an engineer - or if you are lucky, know the model fully to re-assemble it  but the user manual gives no advice other than to phone engineers and that means a £55 call out charge. The DC02 had the worst filters which kept clogging and after a final repair of £125 gave service in a home which has no pets and copes only with average family households consisting of two children and two parents. The 02 model didnt last however after its motor packed up after a year.

Unlike any other company on the market with the possible exception of Vax's new Zero products, no other company can produce a cyclonic bagless vacuum which has constant suction even after the bin is full and we all know by who. "Dyson copiers," however did not exist until Vax made their Zero range; any other company product uses a mesh or paper filter which traps the dirt, gives us all that same swirly pattern of dirt when it revolves around the bin, but the moment the filter clogs with dirt is the moment the suction is cut. In this respect this is why I respect Dyson for his constant suction/cyclonic application. HOWEVER, UNTIL Dyson produce a whole range of uprights which can:

1) Slide under low furniture without having to whip out the hose.

2) Have a better designed way of removing the floor brush to clean out without disturbing the drive belt.

3) Do away with drive belts altogether.

4) Aren't the most expensive to buy and are quiet in use

5) Are made to a good standard with a good quality track record of high standard componentry...

I shall stick to my uncle's old Sebo X1. It's not classy looking, it takes a big bag and seals the dirt, has filters which actually protect the motor and the bags are cheap to buy as well as being in mass supply. The Sebo uprights don't use a drive belt which have to be replaced either and that's one consumable i dont miss buying for my Dyson uprights. Sure the Dc03 was great at being able to be hung off a door, but the motor hinge got in the way whilst trying to vacuum carpet under low coffee tables. The X range can also be dismantled down into three viable parts which all click lock together so transporting it is easier. I know this because he gave us his 12 year old X1 from being in storage before emigrating to the States and currently has a North American/voltage spec Sebo X4.

So whilst Dyson produces the Slim model (and Ive tried it but Im put off with the bagless idea since it is dirty regardless of the low trapdoor down release system - the shrouds do have to be cleaned once in a while!) and the Bulky Ball upright which use a permanent motor system/permanent drive belt Dyson can do damage all he likes with Sebo being taken to court. The shoe is on the other foot now where Dyson is concerned; once upon a time Dyson was taking Hoover to court over cosmetic/design and application claims; if Dyson wants to be the best, he has to build the best into his designs rather than use a few technological advances over older models in his range.

This make/model is not on the COSTCO Web SIte which shows only the DC18, which was not available in the store.

According to the dyson Web Site, the MSRP on this DC14 Animal is $549.  At $399, the discount is $150, or 27 plus percent off the MSRP.

This dyson model hit the USA in the spring of 2003, roughly more than 5 years ago.  This dyson ranks 17th in a field of 36 uprights in the October 2008 Consumer Reports:  The second highest ranking dyson upright according to CR in this go around [behind the DC17 ranked 9th]. 

Carmine D.

IMHO, $399 is becoming the maximum retail price of preference for big box stores for dyson vacuums regardless of dyson model.  I recently posted on another thread that SAM's Stores was offering the DC17 for a regular price of $399.  This is a discount of $150 from the MSRP of $549.  Similar to the DC14 Animal at COSTCO.

From the $399, retail stores will offer sales/discounts/buyer incentives IMHO, especially during the Holiday Season of 2008, already predicted to be dismal.  Why?  It's been a terrible "back to school" sales market among the retailers.  The "back to school sales" figures are generally a precursor of the Holiday Season sales. 

As an example, TARGET stores this week has the DC07 pink for $399.  Plus the buyer gets a $100 Gift Card with purchase.  If a buyer opens a TARGET credit card account too, an additional 10 percent is taken off the purchase.

FWIW: This is the first time in eons that the side banner on the front page of this web site [5 ads] did not include dyson.  Miele takes two spots, Lux Aerus has one [surprise, surprise], HOOVER and Dirt Devil each with one too.  Dyson nothing.  At least for now.  Coincidence?   

Carmine D.

Hi MH,

I'll be interested to see both.  I imagine the DC27 won't be of the "ball" design if it is self-propelled.

Best,

Venson

The DC27 sounds interesting, I wonder if that is just a US model or will be available on the UK market too!  I wonder if the DDM will appear in it which core technology!  Wonder what the DC28 could be upright or cansiter!?  I'm hoping the UK has a much needed replacement to the DC14 in the near future!  Something of a complete re-design!

I did wonder when they were going to use the 'knuckleduster' name and thought it might be a corded version.  My guess it will be a completely new model using maybe the DC26 code! It will be a 'welcomed' addition and I agree will probably sell more then the cordless DC16.   This doesn't really surprise me as people comment how good the DC16 is but doesn't last long on one charge hence the new car charge for the Dc16 so you can use it conitniously in your car!  I wonder if the Knuckleduster will be out before Christmas!

DC18

Great insights Motorhead, thanks.

Can someone explain to me the working of a self propelled vacuum cleaner? Is like an assisted gear arrangement, which makes it easier to push or pull?

The DC27 will be aimed at commercial and residential use? At $799 wouldn't it be a major theft target? Almost certainly using the digital motor, unless the resulting noise level would be too great for long term use.

The KnuckleDuster sounds promising. I've used the DC16 for car cleaning - great performance but the 6min run time makes it a proper race before the red light starts flashing! Drop the battery, add a coiled cord, make it more agile, include a powerhead it could be a winner in this market.

The DDM will likely be fitted to Dyson vacs as a standard part in the near future. But first they'll need to ensure it has proven reliability, reasonable noise levels and reduce the comparable manufacturing cost.

Agree or Dis-agree

MOLE

Carmine D.

I personally saw a Dyson video center of sorts set up in a big-box store a few years back. An ongoing video loop showed the vacuum in use on floor and above floor and  the video also demonstrated the mannewr in which to empty the machine.  It was helpful but the store apparently let the ball drop by not providing consistant staffing for questions.  I don't know how long it had already been there come my day to view it but it was unmanned on that day.

It appears to be presumed that items sold on eBay are legit. As well, law authorities don't seem to be aggresively pushing for any measures to either better protect consumers or hinder crooks.  Also, this is probably one more nightmare that's more of our own making.  Our culture is seldom left ot feel that "good" is good enough. We are prodded and pushed to always want the newest, "best" and most fashionable thing.  Engineered discontent often leads to disproportionate spending and this is what happens when the ultimate car or pair of sneakers or vacuum cleaner -- sworn to have no match -- are foisted on a public made to feel worth is estimated only in terms of money or the look of money. 

I don't think that buyers of the goods in mention are necessarily the black-hearted sort but merely everyday folks just trying to buy into the American dream at the best price possible.  As we've been learning from recent news, their chances are growing slim.

Venson

Hi Venson:

I recall viewing such a video.  I thought the dirt bin dumping was 'staged' to give a better spin than actual real life. Why?  The lady user had a slightly filled dirt bin primarily with particles/granules of debris and minimal rug dust/dirt.  She held the dirt bin over the trash can and allowed the bin stuff to cascade slowly down into the trash can.  Why?  To prevent the dust cloud from coming back up from the trash can too quickly and forcibly.  As soon as the cloud did begin to rise up, the video panned away from the dumping demo and back to the vacuum in use.

Carmine D.

MH, M00seUK:

Good description of the SP operation. 

With HOOVER, the directional linkage is commonly called the "clutch cable."  HOOVER-s have a button in the handle grip which puts the "transmission" in neutral and allows users to wheel the Power drives/Concepts from room to room without the need for carrying.  A draw back of the SP is that when/if the clutch/transmission are disabled, there was no manual default on the SP vacuum to push and pull easily over the rugs to operate.  It was dead in the water [or should I say carpet?].  And of course in HOOVER's case it added over 5 pounds to the vacuum. 

Carmine D.

Hello HS:

Selling a product as Dave does, or Jim Perdue [use your own favorite pitch person] doesn't add value to it, nor is it meant to.  Using the product does!  The giveaways and grandfatherly sales pitch are to encourage people, who normally would not, to try the product.  Now, the free in home 30 day ORECK guarantee without obligation and allowing customers to keep the giveaways even if they return the ORECK, does add value.  Why? Dave is rewarding the customer at his expense for taking their time and effort to test the product. 

Recall recently, and perhaps still, that your fave brand [the subject of this thread] sold the Hand Held for $50 [a $150 MSRP] to customers with the purchase of any full size vacuum.   Does this sales promotion diminish the value of the Hand Held?  Does it send the message to people that its worth is not $150, but one-third the MSRP? You've made that claim with ORECK and the use of giveaways.  Does it apply too with your brand?

Carmine D.

HS:

Remember vacuums, if they are good, eat and store dirt.  That's about as down and dirty as you can get for a product!  Some companies use pretty colors [dyson] and/or false claims [halo].  ORECK uses giveaways.  In the scheme of marketing, most value conscious buyers would take the latter rather than the former.

Carmine D.

Granted Dave and Co, have done what was not expected by the vacuum experts, The monster has been created and can not be stopped by either the vacuum industry or vacuum experts. Orecks market is liteweight and for the consumer that likes the made in U.S.A mantra. Although they should tell the public where the parts come from,its only assembled here in the states.

Yes H.S. i agree its the best 49.95 vacuum out there''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

MOLE

Hello MOLE:

I don't disagree with you and HS:  Giveaways cost the buyer in some way, shape or form.  The question, as a potential buyer of the product, becomes: Do you want to pay/not pay for the giveaways.  Either way, ORECK gives buyers options with/w-o the giveaways. 

Alternatively, buyers shopping for lightweight vacuums have options:  The stand alone ORECK XL Classic at $199 on sale [w/o the giveaways]; RICCAR-SIMPLICITY for $350-$$450 [MSRP]; and/or dyson DC24 for $399 [MSRP].  Even used ORECK XL's, if the buyer is so inclined, can be had for as little as $100 at ORECK stores.  ORECK is competitive with the others.  Tho, ORECK, you would agree, is the original: The Grand Daddy of them all! 

The Federal Trade Commission [FTC] oversees companies using the label Made in the USA.  Recently, the Feds tightened the legal requirements.  By law, to use the label MADE IN THE USA, the FTC requires that  'all or virtually all' significant parts and processing are of US origin.  I'm told all or vitually all means at least 80 percent of the product components.  Companies must be able to back up the claim with proof else suffer the consequences.  

Carmine D.