Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

well folks a tied up the briggs rep and made him fess up on the sno engines.

there are 3 real horsepower ranges.

the small one is fron 6 to 8.5 horse...actually 8 horse i beleive not positive on this

the 9 to 12 horse units ...actually 12 horse

last is 13 horse  and it is closer to 14 horse

and almost all of them are cast iron bore.

the snappers are all cast iron  bore according to the tech.

thare have been no service manuals on the inteck engines since april of 2002,and there is no info on them that is any newer than that.

this is why there is so much controversey on it.

briggs never thought that they would have the success with the engine that they did,things just worked out real well for them.

they plan to get the numbers RIGHT for next season...and you guessed it ...it will be cubic inches not horsepower.

later chris

Guys,
It's going too be great fun this season trying too learn too speak a whole new ope language.
There used too be a day when a guy would post that he had a 5 hp Briggs engine...and everyone instantly had a clue about what he was referring to. (We dont need no stinkin' model numbers!)
Tecumseh issued a whole new vocabulary on thier engines also.......an HSSK50 is now a LH195SA.
An AV520 shall now be refered too as a TVO85XA.
When I went too my Toro update a month ago....The question came up about what the sales people were supposed too tell customers when they were asked, "What horsepower does this unit have?"
The correct answer was, "What horsepower do you want it too have?"

what horsepower do you want it to have ...Lint you are the MAN. that says it all folks ,what horsepower do you want and it shall appear ...right on i like it

later chris

buttlint wrote:
Unfortunate to think those bone-heads over at Toro and Tecumseh are having a real big laugh at their customer's expense. That statement is just to close to the truth to actually be funny  Next piece of OPE I buy may be a Honda.

Rich,
It's not just Toro and Tecumseh having a laugh on anybody.
The thing is that there was a class action lawsuit that determined that things were going too be measured in cubic centimeters and not horsepower. Why?( Just look at the debates that were spawned on this forum and others in the recent past.) Horsepower was being jacked around so much...that it really didnt mean anything anymore.

Is Honda going too comply with the new labeling?

I'd suggest a new measurement of useful work rather than horsepower: "kegs of Molsons lifted per fortnight". At least the common man can identify with it, and when we've finished rating the engines, we drink the beer. Then we'll all be happy. No class actions suits to make some lawyers rich; some may need a new suit depending on where they upchuck the beer.

Highwind wrote: LMAO! 

     SS,

What about the Tec engines, do you think or know that Tecumseh was doing the same as Briggs.

I think that they were both doing the same.

                                                        Fred    

buttlint wrote:

Hi there Lint,

Yes, you are correct, it was just my frustration getting the best of me.  This problem is industry-wide, no question about it.  However, It still raises more questions in my mind.  Using Toro as an example since I know their products best, and they use Tecumseh engines, they sell 3 different 4-stroke 2-stage snowblowers.  They are 8 and 10 HP L-heads, and their top machine is an 11 HP OHV model.  The 8 is 318 cc's, the 10 is 358 cc's, and their 11 HP OHV engine is also 318 cc's.  If you look at that, how would the consumer know that the previously rated 11 HP engine, that now will be rated by CC's or cubic inches is supposed to be more powerful, will they call it a 318 cc OHV high output or something?  I was hoping Snowshoveler could have cornered a Tecumseh representative as well.  Although, we all know what the answer would be.

Personally I think changing to a different measurement ( CC, cubic inches, hogsheads, whatever) is stupid and highlights the problem even more. The basic problem is that the manufacturers are lieing. Coming up with a new way of measuring things just allows them to lie in a different way.

I don't care how big the cylinders are, I'm interested in the amount of useful work that is coming out the end of the engine, how much fuel is used and how long the engine will last running at its rated power. The measurements are simple and adequately defined in engineering circles. The problem seems to be the sales force is taught to do anything to make a sale including being dishonest.

Saying that B&S wasn't prepared for their popularity is just letting them off the hook. They are putting different horsepower stickers on the same engine, this is lying, pure and simple. If all they have are 8, 12 and 14 HP motors then that is what should be on the stickers and in the OPE manufacturer's catalogues.

Hi Nibbler,

I don't think it could have been any better stated than in your post  I also believe we should not be so quick to let the engine manufacturers off the hook and buy their ridiculous excuses, which is just a tap dance in my mind.  It sends the wrong message to them, and keeps the door open allowing them to continue to find different ways to deceive us.