Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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seezar
Joined: Mar 8, 2005
Points: 3
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pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Original Message Mar 8, 2005 1:45 pm |
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I apologize if this is an elementary question but I am a new homeowner and do not have alot of knowledge on engines in general. I have a 1/4 acre lot and plan to do my own lawn maintenance. I've already purchased my mower and am now looking at getting a trimmer. I've noticied the big difference in gas-powered trimmers seems to be 2-cycle or a 4-cycle engine but I'm not clear what the pros and cons are of each. Also in some of my research I see that some units take straight gas whereas others require a mixture. I'm just completely confused at this point at what to even start looking for. I dont have a large lot that requires a tremendous amount of trimming but I want to purchase a unit that will be durable and most fit my needs. Maybe my needs would be better suited with an electric model? Any explanations and advice would be greatly appreciated.
This message was modified Mar 8, 2005 by seezar
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terrapin24h
 
The more I learn the less i know
Location: Rochester NY, USA
Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Points: 628
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #1 Mar 8, 2005 1:58 pm |
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hey looky there, a fellow rochestarian. Cold today, eh? :) to answer your ? quick and simple: 2cycle(or 2 stroke) engines are the engines that you mix the gas an oil together. As the mix gets burned in the engine, the oil in it lubes the engine 4cycle(or 4 stroke) engines are like those in your car(in fact your car is a 4 stroke motor) they have a crankcase and an oil distribution system. The oil and gas are not mixed. They use "straight gas" What's better? well, that debate could rage forever. Suffice it to say that because they are cleaner, the 4 strokers are gaining more and more popularity, in fact i seem to recall there being some EPA law that says all ope engines will have to be 4 stroke by like 2010-someone correct me if im wrong. Day was you could pack alot more power in alot smaller space and alot lighter package with a 2 stroke engine, but that isn't always the case. One nice thing about having 4 stroke equipment is that you only need one gas can :) I have a gas can for my tiller, trimmer, blower and chainsaw. Plus two cans for my 4 stroke stuff.
--chris
2001 Homelite VacAttack Blower
2001 6hp Toro PPace 22" mower
2001 Ariens 824LE
2002 6hp 2400 PSI Excell Powerwasher
2004 18hp Craftsman 27375 42" mower
2004 42cc Craftsman 18" chainsaw
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Marshall
As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #2 Mar 8, 2005 2:05 pm |
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Welcome to the forum. Four cycle engines use gasoling that does not require mixing with oil, two cycle engines require it. For the most part, 2 cycle engines are lighter thus making the trimmer easier to carry around. In trimmers, 2 cycle engines from the major companies like Echo and Stihl for example, have inexpensive maintenance parts and they generally easily found. The 4 cycle engines like the Honda, are going to be more expensive in that manner. If it is indeed Honda you are looking at, they are more expensive anyway. 2 cycle engines are oiled by the oil that is mixed in with the gasoline and have no problems with oiling regardless of what position the engine is used in. This could potentially be a problem with 4 cycles but I believe with the way Honda designed their engines this is really a non issue. I guess I could talk about RPM's but there is really no need to do so. I prefer a strait shaft trimmer, regardless of brand. I find them easier on my back, easier to reach under overhangs and easier to control in general. You might look at Echo's SRM-210 .Others may have more differences than I put down here but, to me, these are the ones that make the biggest difference to a user. |
Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #3 Mar 8, 2005 2:14 pm |
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in fact i seem to recall there being some EPA law that says all ope engines will have to be 4 stroke by like 2010-someone correct me if im wrong.
Hi Terrapin, I may be wrong as well, but I seem to recall that the EPA does not mandate the type of engines that must be used now or in the future, rather they only care about the emissions being reduced on all engines including 2-stroke OPE. I'll look into this to be sure and get back to you.
Richie
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seezar
Joined: Mar 8, 2005
Points: 3
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #4 Mar 8, 2005 2:15 pm |
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Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, those wind gusts today are making it downright frigid today. I think the fact that I have lawn care on the brain is my subconscience saying "cant wait for spring to get here!" :)
I think the convience of having one gas can for both my mower and trimmer is the best reason for me to go with a 4-stroke engine. After doing some google searches I can see that the topic can be quite debatable so I didnt want to start any arguments either way but wanted to determine what was best given my situation.
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Ben07
The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #6 Mar 8, 2005 8:20 pm |
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One of the biggest advantages on the small 2 stroke engines is they do not have valves (valves on small air cooled engines wear fast or burn out much more readily ) ( to be specificn no mechanical valves) They have ports, same as saying slide valves etc. No need to go into the actual operation. The reason it is an advantage is small engines in the ope equip are high revving engines, the two cycle is better suited for high revs as it fires every time the piston comes to top dead center. (the piston fires every rotation of the engine, not every other rotation as in a 4 cycle) that is important in a small engine doing this type job as for example a string trimmer. These engines create a lot of heat running fast so that is why a 4 cycle engiine with mechanical valves would be detramental, because with high heat the first thing to go is the valves. Less parts on a two cycle, easier to repair, you can call them self lubed if you want to, because whatever angle you put them at, as long as it will run , most carbs won't run upside down, some do however, great for airplanes just kidding.whatever angle you put them at as long as they are running and you have oil in your fuel, then they assuridly are oiling themselves, it is a fool-proof system, why, because if they are not oiling themselves they will not run. The traditional system brings the oil and fuel mixture thru the crankcase first before it enters the combustion chamber. there are some slightly modern enhanced versions who bring it thru the crankcase and a small inlet into the combustion chamber also. but the engine will not run on that alone. Not having valves that will burn out when run hot is an advantage.. Sure some one will prob say they now heat treat the mechanical valves, which helps but they still burn Combustion heat on both sides of an exhaust valve which starts them splitting at the thin tips, it is hard to protect against that in these small engines. Which is the reason that for generations they were nothing but 2 cycle. And of course 2 cycle's have never burned out a valve. LOL it's true If you want to chance adjusting or replacing valves in the future, then buy the 4 cycle. they are nice engines and up to modern day tasks. Just more potential kinks in their armor.. not to mention they can be heavier , more expensive, and you have to chg oil. they are a bit more quiet and have less vibration. But for the amount of time you use them, even on a complicated property, the 2 cycle that will not burn valves is much better on your pocketbook . You spent 200 to 400 on a string trimmer, you sholdy consider how often you want to spend that, or put up with a little noise for awhile etc. (old saying "every thrill has it's chill" Ben07
This message was modified Mar 9, 2005 by Ben07
Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps
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robmints
Joined: May 13, 2003
Points: 4691
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #7 Mar 8, 2005 8:59 pm |
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One of the biggest advantages on the small 2 stroke engines is they do not have valves ( to be specificn no mechanical valves) They have ports, same as saying slide valves etc. No need to go into the actual operation. The reason it is an advantage is small engines in the ope equip are high revving engines, the two cycle is better suited for high revs as it fires every time the piston comes to top dead center. (the piston fires every stroken, not every other stroke as in a 4 cycle) that is important in a small engine doing this type job as for example a string trimmer. These engines create a lot of heat running fast so that is why a 4 cycle engiine with mechanical valves would be detramental, because with high heat the first thing to go is the valves. Less parts on a two cycle, easier to repair, you can call them self lubed if you want to, because whatever angle you put them at, as long as it will run , most carbs won't run upside down, some do however, great for airplanes just kidding.whatever angle you put them at as long as they are running and you have oil in your fuel, then they assuridly are oiling themselves, it is a fool-proof system as far as that goes. Not having valves that will burn out when run hot is an advantage.. Sure come will prob say they now heat treat the mechanical valves, which helps but they still burn Combustion heat on both sides of an exhaust walve is hard to protect in these small engines. Which is the reason that for generations they were nothing but 2 cycle. And of course 2 cycle's have never burned out a valve. LOL it's true If you want to chance adjusting or replacing valves in the future, then buy the 4 cycle. they are nice engines and up to modern day tasks. Just more potential kinks in their armor.. not to mention they can be heavier , more expensive, and you have to chg oil. they are a bit more quiet and have less vibration. But for the amount of time you use them, even on a complicated property, the 2 cycle that will not burn valves is much better on your pocketbook . You spent 200 to 400 on a string trimmer, you sholdy consider how often you want to spend that, or put up with a little noise for awhile etc. (old saying "every thrill has it's chill" Ben07 Ben07, I don't disagree with everything you wrote in the above quote, I just take at least some exception to most of it. Seezar, In general, in my opinion, small trimmer and chain saw engines have changed so much in the last two years due to emissions, unless you are a pro user or fixer it is very hard to keep up. If you want to go inexpensive, go to a box, find one you like, check the return policy (make sure it is open ended for date), keep box and reciepts (everything that keeps the return policy in effect) and use it to your hearts content. Don't like it for any reason, take it back. Once you find yourself spending $100 or so to get one you like, Bite the bullet and maybe check into some good machines at a dealer. Echo, Redmax, Stihl, lots of other brands to consider, some well know like Honda, some not, like Shindaiwa. Unless you have a preference, like not wanting to mix oil in the gas, I don't think I would worry about the two stroke-four stroke thing too much. By the way, Welcome. And I am not a pro anything, please take my opinions for what they are worth.
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Ben07
The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #8 Mar 8, 2005 9:07 pm |
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Ben07,
I don't disagree with everything you wrote in the above quote, I just take at least some exception to most of it.
Seezar,
In general, in my opinion, small trimmer and chain saw engines have changed so much in the last two years due to emissions, unless you are a pro user or fixer it is very hard to keep up. If you want to go inexpensive, go to a box, find one you like, check the return policy (make sure it is open ended for date), keep box and reciepts (everything that keeps the return policy in effect) and use it to your hearts content. Don't like it for any reason, take it back.
Once you find yourself spending $100 or so to get one you like, Bite the bullet and maybe check into some good machines at a dealer. Echo, Redmax, Stihl, lots of other brands to consider, some well know like Honda, some not, like Shindaiwa.
Unless you have a preference, like not wanting to mix oil in the gas, I don't think I would worry about the two stroke-four stroke thing too much.
By the way, Welcome. And I am not a pro anything, please take my opinions for what they are worth. Sorry Rob but when I read his question I thought he specifically wanted to know what the pro's and cons were of a 2 cycle engine vs a 4 cycle engine, Actually it is the title. I think every response has been on their differences, He even stated that he has looked at them and has come to the main differences are wether they are 2 cycle or 4 cycle, and that is specifically what he seemed to want to understand. Apparently you only have a problem with my post ??? Actually most of mine. At least that is what you said, specifically what, I am not sure. Maybe somethings wrong and I should erase the post. I did give credit to both types, however far little to the four cycle in this small size market. Now If I was going to give an opinion as you did, for which I might add he asked for explanations and opinions, I gave him an explanation, and you gave him an opinion, and you stated your opinion was based on my explanation. Saying don't worry about the explanation you asked for, just go out and buy, then keep exchanging etc. So I will first give you my opinion on small 4 cycle engines of this size for ope use. They are going to have to go a long and expensive way on 4 cycle tecxhnology in small engines like for string trimmers, to even come close to how the two cycle can handle it today. It may be able to be done some day, but the the consumer will pay a lot more. . The 4 cycle in this size is a mere toy compared to it's counterpart. Also where we disagree is to have someone ask for an explanation, and tell them to go to the store and poke and hope till they find one by trial and error and countless hours at the service desk. when that is why they may have asked the question in the first place so as to not to have to do that, as much. And this type practice makes the cost of goods and services higher for everyone in the long run. Apparently they wanted to gain some knowledge before going out shopping again. keep this in mind and let me quote you "I don't disagree with everything you wrote in the above quote, I just take at least some exception to most of it." and at least I had the courtesy to explain why Ben07
This message was modified Mar 9, 2005 by Ben07
Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps
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SnowPro
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
Points: 395
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Re: pros/cons 2-cycle vs 4-cycle?
Reply #9 Mar 8, 2005 11:22 pm |
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My professional opinion..............( I run one about 5 hours a day in the summer) 2 stroke all the way.  Nothing but Shindaiwa for me. Smooth, powerful, built to last, light weight. 4 stroke.............BOAT ANCHOR HEAVY, ROUGH RUNNING, LOW POWER, VIBRATION (did I already say that  ) BUT..........Very smooth idle...........if that is good for anything. I tried out a Honda, Shindaiwa and Stihl...................didn't like any of them.  The Honda dealer was begging me to try one out. I used it for about 20 min. and was NOT impressed. The others were tried for less time, but my review stands. But hey....................that's just me. Ken 
PS-------I ONLY run Opti-2 for mix. At the mix ratio I seriously doubt I am polluting any more than a 4 stoke engine. |
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