Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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jrtrebor
 
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Original Message Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm |
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Well I couldn't let it go. It was just bugging me why the thing was so pitiful when it came to it's throwing distance. So a few days ago I removed the steel that formed the center hub around the auger shaft. Then made plates to support the center of the paddles and welded them in place. Now it looks like most of the other Toro SS blowers out there.  Tried it out, and it really didn't make much if any difference in the distance. And it had no effect on the engine performance. So back into the garage we went. Decided there was only one more thing to modify. So I removed the stock pulley and replaced it with a stock pulley from another Toro SS. Most of the pulley's are the same. But I think it may have come off a CCR 2000. The stock SC pulley is 7 1/2" in diameter. The replacement one is just a little less than 6" call it 5 7/8" So a full 1 1/2" smaller.  Now the blower is set up just like most other Toros out there and the impeller will be running at the same RPM as those blowers. The really good news was that after I measured what new belt length I was going to need. I found a great and helpful belt supplier on line. vbeltsupply.comI gave them the measurements told them what I needed and they said no problem. $21.00 ($10 for the belt $11 shipping) and four hours later it was on it's way. I should get it Monday afternoon. So by Monday night I should know something. It will be interesting to see how the added auger RPM directly effects the throwing distance. And how the engine responds. Removing the center hub steel plates probably dropped off about 6 or seven pounds. We'll see! 
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aa335
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #23 Feb 26, 2013 2:46 pm |
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It think in designing the SC Toro tried, or was trying to design a machine.
That would have the snow moving, or snow processing capacity of a 2 stage.
Unfortunately what they seem to have wound up with. Is simply a large SS machine
with a poor throwing distance.
......
I think Toro tried to fix or change something that
was working fine the way it was. Meaning they added a third paddle.
While the SC Is a failure in execution, it's concept is plausible as a tough single stage machine that isn't shy to take on EOD piles. To Toro's credit though, I do admire their ingenuity in the snowblower market. Other companies are more conservative, they refine on working products, but do not take risk in out of the box thinking, basically putting in larger engines, pulleys systems, and impellers, but the overall design remains fairly the same. For Toro, the gas powered shovel, the drum auger on two stage machines, and the Powershift designs are out of the box risk taking approaches. Some of these designs come and go, however, Toro has perfected the Powercurve rotors found in today's SS machines and are frequently copied. I love the Powercurve rotors design. It's simple, lightweight, cheap to maintain. Best of all, it doesn't sap too much power from the engine and the throwing distance is impressive. I have a place for a SS and one for a 2 stage machine. The Snow Commander will never replace both of these. If I were to keep just one machine, it will be the single stage Toro 421QE. I am more capable with a shovel and a 421QE combination, more so than a Snow Commander by itself.
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Bill_H
Location: Maine
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Points: 354
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Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #24 Feb 26, 2013 3:39 pm |
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The 3 paddle system is like a having more fine tooth on a hack saw. It takes smaller bites off hard snow more effectively. The trade off is distance.
By removing the center hub pieces, I think you may be defeating the original design intent, which is to limit the snow ingested by the paddles. The hub and the paddles creates small compartments to collect snow, no more than that. The amount of snow it takes in, the same amount gets propelled upward. Also, the center hub pieces acts like a flywheel, to keep the rpm consistent and not bump up and down under load. Totally agree here. The hub pieces prevent snow from being picked up that won't be thrown, and the three blades also result in less weight of snow to throw per blade per revolution. I was also thinking of the flywheel effect, but still wondering if that advantage overcomes the additional mass that must be brought up to speed. The primary thing affecting distance is the speed at the part of the blade that has the most snow on it, combined with any frictional losses caused by bouncing off the chute at an extreme angle. At the center the speed is so low it may not even be able to clear itself, aside from the effects of gravity and vibration. Another important thing to consider is the gap between the blade and the bucket - sort of like what a Clarence kit on a 2 stage overcomes.
Who the hell let all the morning people run things?
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jrtrebor
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: Snow Commander... Throwing distance answers coming soon, I hope!
Reply #25 Feb 26, 2013 5:16 pm |
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Totally agree here. The hub pieces prevent snow from being picked up that won't be thrown, and the three blades also result in less weight of snow to throw per blade per revolution. I was also thinking of the flywheel effect, but still wondering if that advantage overcomes the additional mass that must be brought up to speed. The primary thing affecting distance is the speed at the part of the blade that has the most snow on it, combined with any frictional losses caused by bouncing off the chute at an extreme angle. At the center the speed is so low it may not even be able to clear itself, aside from the effects of gravity and vibration. Another important thing to consider is the gap between the blade and the bucket - sort of like what a Clarence kit on a 2 stage overcomes. Snow never remains in the center of the bucket around the shaft. For the simple reason that snow is always being pushed into
the bucket as the blower moves forward. The snow is always being forced or pushed to the back of the bucket by the incoming snow.
Until you stop pushing the blower forward.
I don't really understand why Toro felt the hub pieces were needed. All they had to do was look at the performance of their other
models that don't have hubs. e.g. the 210R, 421, 621 and many others. Why do those models perform so well without hubs?
Why add the hub and a third paddle.
In my opinion it's simply a flawed design.
But I do give Toro credit for some of the other innovations on the SC.
The tilting feature that let you control the amount of forward pull works very well.
The larger diameter and wider tires makes it much easier to push and pull.
And the extra pair of wheel underneath comes in handy when just moving the blower around.
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