Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

The issue discussed in the Snow Commander thread raise an interesting concern.

Trading distance for torque is a tough decision, and I think a lot of people pay too much attention to throwing distance. It depends almost entirely on the type of snow you get in your location and the layout of your property.

For example: Where I am we usually get light powdery snow in the middle of winter, but starting now we see wet and heavy snow for Feb. and March. Half of my driveway is single width and runs through a wooded area. 15' is more than enough distance and almost any blower will do that. I don't mind if it's piled up near the driveway or on the lawn, as long as it's off the driveway. I'd rather have a strong blower there so I don't have to nibble at it by taking less-than-full-width cuts. Conversely, the top 45' of my driveway is extremely wide, because I have a paved parking area to the side of the garage and a turnaround below it. It's about 40' wide at that point so you need distance!

So big roostertails don't impress me. What impresses me is a machine going full width into deep snow at a good rate of speed; one that's capable of moving large volumes quickly. Power! But if you don't get a lot of deep snow, it can be fun. (as long as it's not being blown by the wind back onto already cleared areas!)

Someone here once posted a video and their driveway was between two houses, the was no way to blow to the side. In that case, distance is very important because you have to toss it far out to the front and once you're past the houses, then you can reblow it to the side. Reblowing is not fun, it hits and packs. The further it goes the less that hits in a given area. IN that case, distance is more important, so trading power for speed is worthwhile. I'd like to see someone market a machine with a two speed impeller. High speed for the light snowfalls, but able to be geared down when you get dumped on hard with the wet heavy stuff. I doubt that will happen because of the extra cost, but it would be nice.

Bill_H wrote:
What you are describing is already exist in the market.  It is very expensive though.  Ventrac has sidewalk snowblowers with very high volume throughput that can accurately place discharged snow within inches of the snowblower.   It also can throw them pretty far too.  :)

But getting back to your original post, I'm usually not a proponent of one machine that does everything.  It can do everything, but not everything well.  A Swiss Army knife is not going to replace my steak knife, butter knife, or nail clipper by a long shot.  There is always design compromises.  I prefer specific and focused capability with little compromises as possible.

I like my single stage and 2 stage snowblowers.   They are both good at what they do and it's fun adjusting my technique to its capability.  The SS is fun to operate, the 2 stage is technical to operate.  On my 2 stage, I get more flexibility on how far or how much snow I discharge, no problem throwing snow 40 feet away.    Most of the time, I don't even try to throw that far because of the wind and blow backs.

Actually on my Honda tracked 2 stage snowblower, the darn machine is technical and forceful.  Sometimes I wonder if it's working for me or I'm working to operate it.  :)  Darn Bronco.  That's okay, as long as I don't have arthritis, knee and hip replacements, I'll keep it.

The HS1336is from Honda ($7,999!) uses a regular gas engine to drive the auger and fan, but has twin electric motors to run the tracks.

A big performance plus is that you can operate both systems independently. In fact, the throttle control is really just a "throw snow distance" control. The faster you rev the engine, the father the fan will throw the snow. Slightly slower engine speeds will let the augers take more even bites and move more physical tons of snow, but it won't be thrown quite as far. The auger uses an electric push button clutch.

Meanwhile, the electric motors move at whatever speed works for you.

There's a brain on-board, with an AUTO, POWER and MANUAL mode. AUTO is slow, steady and automatic. Even a beginner can run it. POWER allows you to control the auger/fan speed, and MANUAL lets you control everything, including the hydraulic tilting and rotating auger housing.

Electric joystick for chute rotation, twin-joint deflection chute, 2 x 12V on-board batteries for electric start....but the real Cool Factor is a secret handshake sequence when turning the key on that diverts battery power to the track motors. This allows you to drive it around without the engine on and anybody who's owned a track-drive model knows how fantastic that could be.

Pretty slick design, but spendy.


-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

robertcoats wrote:
For $8000, I would like to have a anti-blowback force field, a heated seat, and a steering wheel.  Sure, it's nice Honda can showcase this model and can build F1 cars, but the average Honda buyer isn't going to buy a $8000 / 36" wide snowblower, unless they have a extra garage bay for the snowblower. 

Seriously, the HS1336is is very slick and well thought out engineering.  Kudos to Honda engineers.

Now can they get to work on a HS928is that is priced no more than $3000?  All I really need is dual electric track motors with unlocked axle, electric chute/deflector, and hydraulic bucket assist. 

If that's too hard for marketing folks to understand, then at least start selling HS928TCD's in the US.  Get rid of the HS520 and bring back the HS621.

aa335 wrote:
The HS1336is is a showcase product. Honda knows they won't sell many, but it's a way to show what Honda can do, and is specifically good at showing off the high-tech iGX engine. There's always a market for the best, but most customers for this unit so far are commerical / civil operators (ski resorts, for example).

As long as the 2-stage products are continued to be built in Japan, the exchange rate will dramatically impact the wholesale and retail prices. When the designers, engineers, and marketing teams all try and build a new unit based on $1 = 110 yen, but when it's time to build and ship them, the dollar only gets 85 yen, prices must rise to even break even, much less provide much profit for the dealers, I would love to see Honda make a 2-stage model here in the USA, where costs can be more closely controlled and planners can not worry about currency exchange rates.

The Canada-model HS928TDC is nice, but the battery can become a service issue for customers in the USA who would not use the unit as often as our neighbors up north. AC/120V starters will continue to be the norm on those US models that offer electric start.

The HS621 has a cult following. It was somewhat over-engineered, and eventually became too pricy to continue importing it.

My crystal ball tells me there will be changes to the Honda SB line-up...just can't say what or when for now!

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone

aa335 wrote
If that's too hard for marketing folks to understand, then at least start selling HS928TCD's in the US.  Get rid of the HS520 and bring back the HS621.

HS-520 is not that bad.  It is fairly good for 3-6" snow.  When the snow is wet/heavy and more than 6" then it is challenged.  I need to boratized it..

MN_Runner wrote:

You have to try an HS621 to really understand the difference. I have both and can truly see the performance difference between the GC & GX engines - definitely night & day.

I am done buying snowblowers.  My 3 car garage is full with two cars, 7 bicycles, two Honda snowblwers and one Honda lawnmower. No mas!

MN_Runner wrote:

Haha, me too. I have a 48" 21HP single stage, it's more than capable of anything I'll ever have to do.

Breaking News: They just posted the warning an hour ago -- up to 24" of heavy snow Friday and possible blizzard conditions on Saturday. Bring it on!

I like running the 2-stage first then running the SS to clean the concrete.  My ice rink is about 150'x150' so I use 928 to clear it then 520 to smooth the surface. Even on an ice rink, SS has its limitations as I found out that SS does not throw the snow far enough so at some point we are dealing with the deep snow where 520 is seriously challenged.  Again if you have room and money, keep both as these come in handy.

MN_Runner wrote:
I had both the HS520 and HS621 at the same time a few years ago.  If the snow is 3 to 6 inches, I don't have preference on either machine.  9 to 12 inches of wet heavy snow, the HS621 is much more a brutal machine.

MN_Runner wrote:
If you wanted to get more snowblowers because thats what you like, build a shed, put the bicycles and the lawnmower there during the winter.  Swap the snowblowers out to the shed during the non-snowing seasons.

Depending on how high the ceiling in your garage, you can get a pulley operated lift tray to store non used items off the ground.  I put in a 5x5 foot tray for my sister to store OPE.  The lawnmower goes up there during the winter, the snowblower goes up there during the grass growing seasons.

aa335 wrote:

Two snowblowers are more than good enough for one operator. I wish I can install the new 2012-2013 HS-928 muffler on my 2010 model.  My 928 is really loud compared to 724 I had for a week.

From my experience, power equals distance and I'll take as much as  I can get of each.

I'm in a rural area, so I only have one good reason for throwing distance.  Some winters we can get a lot of snow.  Those winters are usually cool enough that the snow sticks around and doesn't melt until spring.  Once you start piling snow up on the edge of your driveway, pretty soon you have 4' - 5' snowbanks lining the driveway and it becomes more difficult to throw snow OVER that high snowbank.  Moreoverly, those high banks cause MORE snow to drift in onto your driveway, exacerbating your cleaning problems.

Now, with global climate change, this is becoming less of an issue.  Sure, we get greater snowfalls, but they usually melt within a few weeks.

I know what longboat is talking about.

Back in the unbelievale winter of '95-'96 we had so much snow that my street was shut down for almost a week.  Plows couldn't keep up with the snow.   I was using a decent, brand new Craftsman 10/29 at the time and it wasn't exactly stellar for throwing distance.  Nonetheless, it could throw at least 20 to 25 ft. distance with average snow.  My driveway at the narrowest is 18' across.  By mid March I only had nine feet of the 18 available.  The rest was consumed by snow banks.   Another month of that rate of snowfall, we would have been parking the vehicles down at the street.   The Simplicity I have now throws almost double what the Craftsman did.  However, I've yet to see anything close to the winter of '95-'96 since.

borat wrote:

Heh, we always want as much as we can get, the Tim Taylor in all of us :) I was referring to distance as a function of impeller tip speed (high RPMs) and power as being able to go into a deep pile without dying (torque). Sort of like comparing 2nd and 4th gears. In the last 7 years we've had 3 where we got 100" of snow, the average being 70. The first time we had that I ran into a problem with snow banks near the end of the year, I was unable to throw over the 7' or so banks from up close. I ended up blowing it sideways to an area where it wasn't so high and then reblowing it off to the side. Since that episode, I always start my piles a little further back so it won't happen again.

I try to keep poles out so I can tell where the edge of the driveway is ... ever since that time I plowed a tree stump (oops). I run the blower exactly on the line no matter how deep it gets there. After my neighbor drove into the ditch I make extra sure that all the reflectors down at that end of the driveway are always visible too.

robertcoats wrote:
Digging up an old dead horse here Robert.  I'm quoting you from two years ago.  But is there any info you can shed on that new 28" 2-stage snowblower, perhaps named HS1128is?