Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

What is the verdict on the newer 4 cycle Toro single stage blowers?  Are they as good and powerful as the older two strokes?

I have the Toro 418 with the 87cc 4-cycle and my father has the Toro CCR 2450 with the 141cc 2-cycle. When comparing engine performance the newer 4-cycles seems to be on par with their 2-cycle predecessors. Their peppy and never seem to wanna give up, sure it stalls out when pushed too far but what SS doesn't. I've pushed my little Toro above and beyond its capacity, obviously with some effort and in a bind if my 2 stage ever was out of commission, I wouldn't hesitate to use the little Toro in its place. The 4-cycle has certainly exceeded my expectations.

An 87cc four stroke on par with a 141cc two cycle engine?

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding how that could possibly be considering two cycle engines of the same displacement are generally at least 20% more powerful as a rule. 

Hard to believe that a four cycle engine with 38% less displacement would be on par with a 141cc two cycle engine, unless it's revving at 8000 rpm vs. the two cycle engine running at 4000 rpm or less.

aa335 has experience with both two and four stroke Toro SS machines.  I'm certain he'll contribute his opinion in this regard.  From what he's previously posted, it appears he's happy with his 621? four cycle Toro.


 

I have the 4 stroke 421QE (now called the 621QZE)  and my neighbor have the 2 stroke 221QR. I think both the 4 stroke and 2 stroke versions are on par with each other for most situations.  The performance is so close but there are obvious differences to me.

The 2 stroke have a slight distance advantage, 2 feet further in medium weight snow. The engine sounds very willing and rev up and down quickly.  I like how it spools up.  The 4 stroke has a noticeable advantage in not stalling or stalling out in concrete thick snow mix. The 4 stroke engine sound is more relaxed and will hold rpm better when loaded down. I would be happy with either one, with a slight preference to the 4 stroke.

My 4 stroke 421QE has enough throwing distance and I like how gutsy it is when rammed into a snow bank. Listen to the engine tone and feed it right amount of snow, it will consistently work through it. On the 221qr, do the same but don't let the rpm drop too low, it either stalls out or just keep spewing the snow in front and not have enough rpm to get the snow up the chute.  I haven't seen the 2 stroke stall out too often, but when the RPM is too low, the slurry mix just keep turning around in the housing and not getting discharged.

One thing to note is that the 2-stroke engine has been around a long time so all the bugs are pretty much flushed out.  The 4 stroke engine are fairly new and has respectable performance, there are a few teething pains in the beginning.  As long as it's still in warranty, I wouldn't be overly concerned.  I am happy with the Toro's service and warranty on my snowblower.

I haven't used the smaller 418 4 stroke model. Unless Toro made a running change to the engine, it seems anemic, based on what I've seen on videos. It would not be on par with a Toro 2450 unless highly modified. The 418 seems to need more power since all the rotor and housing design fundamentals are the same as the larger models.

   The smaller 418 might toss the same distance or close to the 2450 but not throughput.   They both would not make progress at the same pace and the ratio bigger as snow height increased.  My Powerlites is close in distance to 2450’s and 3650’s in low snow.    Any difference would be slight as the paddles are running close to the same RPM and diameter.   Given a bigger load the Powerlite and 418 would drop off quickly.   

    I think all the 421 and 621 versions are the same engines, paddles and bodies with the differences only in features noted by the EQZ suffixes of hood control, chute control and electric start.   Tossing wise they’re all the same. 

   I picked up two new 421’s two summers ago and only got a few minutes time on one last year.   The little use it got was impressive.   The snow this week was respectably high and suitable for an SS so the 421 got some clearing time.

   The 4 stroker is a great engine and a nice sounding engine.   It holds up well under load with minimal sag when reasonably used.    It performs like a Honda.   The Loncin engine has only been used by Toro and MTD for a few years.   I can’t find serious complaints about the Loncin 163cc on the net.   The expectations for holding up long term seem very good.  I’m certainly not concerned about them say compared to the Predator.  I have held off buying any even at $99.

     The 4 stroke 163cc did very well on the first storm here.   I’d say it was the equal of a 3560 and if better only slightly and that would be in distance and throughput.    I had 3 2450’s and 2 3650’s here up until the storm so no big two strokes to compare with.  But I have a lot of test time on those over the last few years and would say they are very close and too close to eyeball.   You’d probably have to check with a tape to be sure but I’d give an very very slight edge to the 4 stroke. 

   Ownership wise which would I want….all the 2450’s and 3560’s are gone and the 4 strokes remain.   I’ll sell one but the other is a keeper at least for this season and until Toro comes up with something better other than top side frills.

    I'm on the hunt for a 418 but doubt if I’ll get one for a few years unless someone snaps a rod.  It will have a tough time dislogging the Powerlite from the pole position near the door.   The Powerlite is the first machine used in all storms.  It gets me to the garage and does some initial clearing from tough spots out to the middle of the drive where the bigger guys can get at it.

trouts2 wrote:
Very true.  The Loncin engine is almost a carbon copy of the GX160 engine that's on my Honda HS621 snowblower. 

One thing I don't understand is that the Loncin engine has a primer bulb, while the Honda engine doesn't have it. 

I just bought a toro 621E as I wanted the electric start. Haven't had much snow yet in northern minnesota but I have used it twice on lighter snow falls. I had a honda 521 recoil before this one. The toro is quieter running than the honda was. The honda did blow the snow farther than the toro. The toro will pull itself along nicley where the honda never felt that way. I use a toro 3650 two stroke at work and I would have to say I like the 621 better. I'm not taking anything away from the 3650 as we have used it where we shouldn't of and it just keeps right on running and running. I do like the electric start on the new one, glad I got it.

Came across a nice used Honda HS520 (2 years old) and bought one this morning at 7:30AM.  After a nice run and smoke (just kidding) then tried out the used blower on my pond.  Did not have a huge expectation but hoping it was good enough to clean up the pond.  It was not bad and actually blew the snow fairly well and much better than my old HS35.  Using the SS was a little more work than expected because I had to drag it out from my garage to the pond, which was a chore.  It started good and blew it well.  I used it for about 40 min nonstop but the fuel usage was very minimal.  It was very clear that having both 2-stage and SS are a great idea if you have room in the garage.  I think it is easy enough for my wife to use.

MN_Runner wrote:
I got 3 of those "easy for my wife to use" snowblowers as well.  All types, recoil and electric start, 2 stroke and 4 stroke, big and small, foreign and domestics, loud and quiet, cheap and expensive.  Got all my bases covered, wife hasn't used any of them.  Good thing I didn't buy it "specifically" for her to use. 

You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. 

Oh well.  She lets me keep my snowblowers, so I'll keep her. 

I found a great application for SS.  Put on a pair of ice skates then use your SS to propel you forward on the pond.  You can go pretty fast.

That sounds like a new class of racing.   Imagine the possibility of modding the snowblower and rubber paddles to get more speed and bite.

Heh. And in the Unlimited Class, V-6 rototillers with the tines replaced with circular saw blades for extra traction.

i just need Borat's help controlling the thrust.  Not sure if the GC160 can handle 6000rpm of abuse.  I could care less if it blows up.

GC with an overhead cam should handle higher rpms.  Push rod engines aren't quite as willing.