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Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Snow Commnader - First Impressions

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jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Original Message   Dec 30, 2012 4:50 pm
Well. where do I start.
Snow conditions - About two inches, dense but not wet.
Started on the first pull... Good
Has plenty of power...Good
Will pull you along... Good
Cuts a nice wide 24" path... Good
Throws snow... Not so good
Were talking three maybe four feet.
Belt was checked - tight
My thoughts. As most know you've got to feed a blower enough snow for it  to be able to
throw it's maximum distance.  When the snow depth is let's say three inches or less
you may have to be moving forward pretty quick to provided enough snow to the blower.
( there are other factors but generally speaking)
So maybe that was part of the problem.  This blower has three paddles so it should be
able to process more snow than a two paddle.  It has the power (7hp) and because the
auger drive pulley is 1 1/2" small in diameter than the 2000 and 3000 series Toro blowers.
There shouldn't be a power problem with spinning an extra paddle. And the additional four inch
wide bucket.

Having said that, SS blowers get their performance by way of auger RPM.
Borat has shown that in his videos.  (plus the added bonus of more power out of the engine when raising the engine RPM.)
So having a much smaller pulley on the auger shaft may offset the physics behind
adding a third paddle and a wider bucket.  But maybe the drop in auger RPM is not so good.  When it comes to
an acceptable throwing distance.

At this point clearing small amounts of snow with the blower simply allows you a wider clearing path.
Your not blowing anything off the drive your simply blowing it into what will be your next pass.
I have no doubt that what I saw today is not a good example of what this blower is capable off.
But I was expecting it to throw at least as far as my little 3.5hp CR20E that I used earlier.
Have to wait for a deeper snow.

I was also looking at the paddle to housing clearance.  It seemed a little wide to me 1/4-3/8"
So maybe the paddles are in need of replacing as well.
Kind of hoping not, there something like $100.00 a set on Ebay.

Any thoughts?

This message was modified Dec 30, 2012 by jrtrebor
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borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #1   Dec 30, 2012 6:24 pm
What are the rpms set at?   Stock is around 4000 to 4200. 

For experimental purposes shovel a row of snow to increase available volume.  Try it out on that.  If it still isn't throwing snow, pump up the revs.  Just bend the tab for the governor spring.  I wouldn't hesitate to crank it up to around 4500 to 4700.  That should be plenty.

One other thing to look at is the belt and pulley housing.  Ensure that there's no snow getting in there, melting and causing the belt to slip.
This message was modified Dec 30, 2012 by borat
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #2   Dec 30, 2012 7:19 pm
borat wrote:
What are the rpms set at?   Stock is around 4000 to 4200. 

For experimental purposes shovel a row of snow to increase available volume.  Try it out on that.  If it still isn't throwing snow, pump up the revs.  Just bend the tab for the governor spring.  I wouldn't hesitate to crank it up to around 4500 to 4700.  That should be plenty.

One other thing to look at is the belt and pulley housing.  Ensure that there's no snow getting in there, melting and causing the belt to slip.

I've got it set at about 4300

Had the pulley housing off right after I used it to check the belt.  No snow or water behind the cover.

The way it was putting out snow I turned the chute and lowered the deflector to dump the flow
into what would be my next path. Same thing as you were talking about doing.
(Just no shoveling involved).  It did throw better.  But I still wasn't working with that much snow.
I'm still wondering about paddle wear.  Because in addition to the short throwing distance.
It seemed to be kind of churning the snow up front.  Although blowers can tend to do that if
they don't have enough volume coming in as well.
I shot a little video.
It was spur of the moment so it's pretty bad.
You might turn your volume down alittle.


This message was modified Dec 30, 2012 by jrtrebor
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #3   Dec 30, 2012 8:06 pm
My old Craftsman paddles are worn fairly well but nonetheless, it will still throw some serious snow a good distance.  But, that's with the engine spinning between 5000 and 6000 rpm. 
At those speeds, it's all power and velocity at work. 

The Murray's paddles are almost new.  Even at normal rpms, it throws snow surprisingly well.   One would think that Toro of yours would easily outperform the Murray if both are at stock settings.   However, the Snow Commander might be an under achieving Toro model.   Maybe someone else is familiar with the model.  I know the 221 that I have is a respectable machine.
Whatever the outcome, I'm certain you'll find a way to bring it up to snuff.  
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #4   Dec 30, 2012 8:37 pm
It just does not look right.  Even if you sink money to buy new genuine paddles, I am not sure you will get a drastic improvement. Maybe it is just a bad design by Toro.  Is there a trail of snow behind the blower as I cannot see it from the video? I am sure you got the scrapper bar adjusted correctly.  Looks like the blower is not picking up (or generating enough lift or speed) the snow and blowing it away like it should.  Maybe the auger speed is not fast enough. So do you adjust this by increasing the RPM or changing the pulley size or both?
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #5   Dec 30, 2012 9:09 pm
I miss stated something in my first post.  I said the stock SC pulley was smaller than other Toro's
 I meant to say that it is larger.

There isn't a whole lot of information out there about these blowers.
With the little I did find.  Some said they didn't work well, others
bragged about them.
When I took it back in I pulled the side cover to check belt tension.
While I was in there, I pulled the auger pulley and was able to
slip on another one off an CCR 2000.
Two shim washers and it fit perfectly.  Problem is the belt.
As the stock one is way to big because the replacement pulley
is 1 1/2" smaller in dia.  I usually buy all my belts at
Advanced Auto.  But I don't suspect that they will carry a selection of
those ribbed belts.  Like they do in V belts.
I even checked to see if I could install another tension pulley
somewhere to take up the slack in the stock belt  using the
replacement pulley.  But it's just way to big.

As I said before we all know how important auger RPM is.
I did the math (actually I used an online pulley calculator)
using these values.
engine RPM 4200
drive pulley 1.5" dia. (estimated)
driven pulley 7.25 dia.(stock)  = 868 RPM auger shaft speed
driven pulley 5.75"dia. (used on other Toro's) = 1095 RPM auger shaft speed
Guess I'll just have to wait for a big snow and see how it does.
I am going to see if a can find a shorter belt.
Would love to put that smaller pulley on it.
Then hope that the three paddle auger is enough in balance.
This message was modified Dec 30, 2012 by jrtrebor
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #6   Dec 30, 2012 9:41 pm
I watched the video.  I'd say it needs much more snow to really evauate it.   The engine rpms sound pretty relaxed as well.  The only thing I like relaxed is me.  Jack that baby up! 
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #7   Dec 30, 2012 11:14 pm
borat wrote:
I watched the video.  I'd say it needs much more snow to really evauate it.   The engine rpms sound pretty relaxed as well.  The only thing I like relaxed is me.  Jack that baby up! 

I kind of think it needs more snow as well. I've kind of just assumed it was just like other SS
blowers.  But with a larger bucket and engine.  Maybe it's not.
Maybe it was designed for the purpose of dealing with larger snow amounts.
More snow processing capacity, but with a shorter throw distance.
Hence the three paddles, wider bucket and slower auger RPM.
The RPM does need to come up some.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #8   Dec 31, 2012 9:09 am
I doubt that Toro would design the machine to sacrifice distance for volume.  At least not to the less than impressive distance depicted in your video.  The additional three inches of width is compensated with more power and three paddles.  If there is a limit in distance, it would likely be only by five feet or so.  Meaning that Toro advertizes between 30 and 35 ft. throwing distance.  The Snow Commander might be limited to 25', which in reality is quite good.  From my experience with my new 221 vs. the Tecumseh powered machines, the Toro might achieve 30' with perfect snow and a back wind.  Otherwise, around 20', give or take a few ft. would be normal. 

Speaking of distance, how exactly is the distance measured?   It's not like the snow has concise dimensions like a piece of rope.

If the paddles are worn, that will likely effect distance thrown on certain types of snow.  Having the deflector at 90 degrees will also inhibit distance.  

I would surmise that with sufficient half decent snow, the deflector up, increase rpms to around 4700, the machine will throw snow much further. 

Here's something that you might want to read.  It's in the "Reviews" section:

http://www.abbysguide.com/snow-blower/reviews/38-0-1.html

You will note that throwing distance is on par with other Toro claims.
This message was modified Dec 31, 2012 by borat
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #9   Dec 31, 2012 11:44 am

Borat: Speaking of distance, how exactly is the distance measured?

 

   A puzzle but I would imagine done in the usually way under the eye of marketing with optimal conditions of density, compactness, moisture, height that would rarely occur.  Most distance spec’s are caveated or  footnoted with depending on conditions.   Many are a range which is more realistic than a best condition max.  I’ve seen some start at 3 feet on the low end.   Most people I talk about distance expect to always be tossing at the spec max which is unrealistic.

   In average snow a 3hp Powerlite does 15-25 and the crew of 2450’s, 3650’s and up 20-30. 

 Jrtrebor,

    At least to me the video seems to show enough snow to be tossed well, 10-15 feet.   The output is a flow so different than what I see with low inches of snow with an SS.  What usually comes out with low snow is a flurry that has no energy and dosen’t go more than a few feet.  It’s blown all over close to the machine.   The low snow in the video seems dense enough to be tossable.

   The speed of the flow out in the video seems very slow so an RPM issue.    The gap of ¼ to 3/8 is pretty big and could an issue also.  

    It would be picking up more snow per paddle with a two paddle but the flow does seems enough to be tossed and not a problem.    I would think with that snow and the usual Toro pulley ratios and an RPM 4000-4100 you would have gotten a toss of 10+ feet and very wide.

   On the 24 width.  That  might be a bit much in higher denser snow that a Toro 21inch 6.5hp would handle better.  In bigger snow the bite pull poops out so quite a bit of pushing required on my 21 inch machines with the handles against the hips.

This message was modified Dec 31, 2012 by trouts2
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Snow Commnader - First Impressions
Reply #10   Dec 31, 2012 4:36 pm

Took a little closer look at things today.
I'm no rocket scientist, but ....
This looks like the main cause of the lack of distance when I
was trying to throw that small volume of snow.

The space is just a little to wide.
Don't you think...
That's a short 3/8" drive extension.
The gap has got to be 1/2"+
This is the worst of the three paddles.  But the other two aren't much better.
With that large of a gap the snow was simply piling up in the housing.
Until the volume was great enough to be limply thrown out.
You can kind or see that happening in the video.




This message was modified Dec 31, 2012 by jrtrebor
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