Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Here are a few photos of the Snow Commander with the covers off.
 

Lots of room.



Good access to the carb by removing two bolts that hold on a large access cover.
That large spring is part of the tilt mechanism.



Four wheels instead of two.  You don't have to push down on the handle when you are moving backwards.
You just release the engage handle a little and the blower housing tilts down in back ( with the help of the spring) lifting the
cutting edge off the ground.
It's always rolling on four wheels like a lawn mower.




Three paddles instead of two.  And a 24" clearing path.




Here is the most interesting thing I found and will be food for thought for some.
It may be a little hard to make out but I've placed a pulley from a CCR 2000 on the shaft up against the pulley on the Commander.
The (white) pulley is the same diameter used on a lot of different, if not most Toro single stage models.
It's 6" in dia.  the pulley on the Commander is 7.5" in dia.
Seeing as how the performance or the ability SS blowers have to blow snow is centered around high RPM.
Why would Toro choose to slow down the augers by using a larger pulley.  Granted it has three augers and a 24" cutting path.
Which would call for more power.  But it has a 7hp engine.
There are many 2 stage blowers that have 24" cuts with only 5hp engines.  And that engine is driving augers, impeller
and the drive train.  There are also 7hp two stage blowers with a 24" cut.
Of course these blowers have 4 stroke engines.  So we are comparing apples and oranges.
But I'm still surprised that Toro would sacrifice the auger RPM.  When it seems that they have the power available in the 7hp
to cope with the extra weight of the additional paddle and the 4" increase in cutting path. 
But maybe I'm wrong.  I am tempted to put on that smaller pulley.  That is, of it will fit and I could find a belt to fit.
The hub and shaft size looks the same.

aa335 -  I'm curious as well to see how it performs under different snow conditions.
I would agree "There's a lot of engineering there, but perhaps too much complexity and weight".
I'm really scepticial of those small wheels and how they will function when they get coated with
snow and ice.
Your right about the 7hp rating.  It's only a 141cc which is the same engine size used in other
blowers only claiming a 5hp rating.
So I don't know, it's an interesting trade off.
Gearing down the augers so to speak to keep the engine in it's optimum power band.
In turn slowing down the auger RPM which is critical for a SS to perform.
Borat has shown that boosting the engine RPM can really make a
difference in a blowers performance.  But in doing so the auger RPM
is also increasing. Thinking out loud here, increasing the auger RPM would increase the
throwing distance, and allow for faster processing of snow through the blower.
Which translates to being able to walk the blower faster and clear more ground.
I know I'm over thinking this, just trying to get my head around the Commanders
design.  Also the addition of a third paddle.  But I'm guessing that was added
to deal with the increase in the cut path.  You wouldn't  think that a 3" increase
(221Q 21" cut)  would warrant an additional paddle.  But what do I know.
Guess I'll have to wait until I can give it a "where the rubber meets the road" test.

Maybe I should just drop the Honda GX200 engine in it that I have sitting around.
Then put on the small pulley.

You've probably read this before. But it shows how the engine manufacturers.
are really covering themselves regarding HP ratings.
Sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors.
Copied from the B&S web site.

Engine Power Rating Information
The gross power rating for individual gas engine models is labeled in accordance with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) code J1940 (Small Engine Power & Torque Rating Procedure), and rating performance has been obtained and corrected in accordance with SAE J1995 (Revision 2002-05). Torque values are derived at 3060 RPM; horsepower values are derived at 3600 RPM. Actual gross engine power will be lower and is affected by, among other things, ambient operating conditions and engine-to-engine variability (what does that mean). Given both the wide array of products on which engines are placed and the variety of environmental issues applicable to operating the equipment, the gas engine will not develop the rated gross power when used in a given piece of power equipment (actual "on-site" or net horsepower). This difference is due to a variety of factors including, but not limited to, accessories (air cleaner, exhaust, charging, cooling, carburetor, fuel pump, etc.), application limitations, ambient operating conditions (temperature, humidity, altitude), and engine-to-engine variability. Due to manufacturing and capacity limitations, Briggs & Stratton may substitute an engine of higher rated power for this Series engine.

I'd like to know if all the "horsepower values are derived at 3600 RPM".
Or whether some are derived from higher RPMs.
Seeing as how some engines/blowers are spec'd to run at higher RPMs than others.
Case in point.  The 7hp 141cc engine in the Commander versus the 5hp 141cc engine used in the 421Q or my 210R.
I guess the difference could be in the carbs, porting, cranks, rods who knows.

Bingo borat,  The engines are the same.
The Commander engine # 084333-0199-E1 and the Powermax 726TE engine # 084333-0197-E1
I also looked at the parts list for both engines and the numbers match for all the important components.
Head, Cylinder assy, crank, piston, rings, main jet, carb, etc.

Something else that's interesting is that today (it was cold and rainy here) I also compared the engine parts list of the
Commander and the 210R that I have both have the 141cc engines.
In the parts list the Cyl assy for the two engines is different.
But it also use the term Boost with reference to the Cyl assy for the Commander.
And the term Non Boost when referring to the cly assy. on the 210R
That may be what they are calling or labeling the additional intake you spoke of.
Don't know that for sure as you said information is scarce.

I will also add that in comparing the Commander engine and the 210R engine.
The Cyl assy., crank, piston, rings were different #s.
But the head, rod, main jet and carb #s were the same.
Though that was curious.

Just uploaded a video I shot today of the powered chute set up I put on the Snow Commander.
And a short clip of the unique tilt system employed on this blower.

Snow Commander video.

borat, sorry about that.
I've been looking at so many different Blower and engine specs. today that I
posted the wrong model #  in post # 10.
I posted model 221R it should have been 210R
I've since changed it from 221R 38581 to  210R 38587

The 221 is in the 842 engine series and the Snow Commander and the 726TE
are in the 843 series.
The 221Q engine and the Commander don't share the same parts.
But the 221Q and the 210R do.

borat that's a good thought about the chute freezing.
I usually keep a heavy coat of Anti-seize on the chute ring
but I will need to check it before using it.
Going to mess with the carb tomorrow.
Here is a great site for getting information on Toro blowers.
Just put in the model # e.g. 38587
Toro Master parts viewer.

I've been using this one to get R-Tek parts lists
B&S Customer Support Portal

I use the silver type
Permatex® Anti-Seize Lubricant
A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants.
Use during assembly to prevent galling, corrosion and seizing and to assure easier disassembly.
Temperature range: -60°F to 1600°F (-51°Cto 871°C).
Salt, corrosion and moisture resistant – ideal for marine use.

It just really seems to keep things coated a long time.

On another subject.  I started the SC up today to check the RPM.
It was only running at about 3100.
So I reached in and pushed on the throttle a little.
The RPM went up, took my finger off expecting it to drop back down.
But it didn't, I had to push on the throttle again to bring it back down.
Shut it off, and discovered that the throttle was stiff, not frozen.
But would stay where ever it was move to.
To make a long story short.  Finally found out that when I reinstalled the carb after cleaning it.
I had tightened the mounting bolts a little to tight.  It has the plastic carb. and if you tighten either
bolt as little as a 1/4 of a turn to tight.  It distorts the carb body just enough to either bind up
on the throttle shaft.  Or distort the carb throat just enough to bind on the throttle butterfly.
Never run across that before, the bolts really weren't that tight.
Anyway, got that straightened out and the RPM is now set at about 4225.

Also decided to eliminate the stops on the chute ring.  Just cut teeth in where the stops where.
So now it will spin 360º either way.  And I won't have to be concerned with breaking something by running into a stop.
 I can also blow snow behind me if I duck.  That would be a strange sight to see.

I'm using a little 12v battery that was on an electric scooter.
I don't recall what the AH rating is on it.
It's the same battery I used to use on my 2 stage blower.
Usually only charged it about once during the season.

Thanks for the information on the porting.
Always helpful when someone can post first hand information.
Thanks for your comment on the chute rotator.

That's something, that only 100 rpm increase is noticeable.
I'll have to check, I don't really know what the Snow Commander is supposed to run at stock.
I'm guessing around 4k. + or - 100

That's something, that only 100 rpm increase is noticeable.
I'll have to check, I don't really know what the Snow Commander is supposed to run at stock.
I'm guessing around 4k. + or - 100

Thanks Shryp
Well if Toro's says you can take it up to 4250 then I'm right at the top end at 4225.
And I would think that you could pretty safely bump it up another 275.
And take it to an even 4500 RPM as borat was suggesting.