Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Looking at the Honda website I see the Honda HS520 (US version) throws a outstanding 55 tons/hr. The Canadian version can only handle 32 tons/hr. Does Honda actually expect someone to believe that the US version has a higher output than the 928? Is this a joke or am I missing something?

I don't know what a typical snow coating on a driveway might actually weigh. In a big storm, it will certainly be a lot (which may be cleared in an hour). Do I think the machine is definitely 32 tons/hr? Don't know.

But you may also need to consider how they're defining "move". If you're doing EOD slushy stuff, that kind of snow weighs an awful lot (exhibit A- 1 shovelful). And they may be defining "move" as simply having it come out of the chute. 32 tons/hr is 18 lbs/sec. That's a lot, no question, feels perhaps a bit optimistic. But if you're letting the machine hammer its way through the deep slush in 1st gear, and the stuff is basically just pouring out of the chute (landing 2 feet away), that's maybe a few pounds per second (thinking about my 8hp MTD). I've never tried to catch & weigh what's coming out All just speculation on my part; for all I know, maybe it's 40 tons/hr.

   The numbers might all be true but are probably best condition numbers and have nothing to do with average snow or EOD.  An SS can throughput a bunch of good condition snow but seem to bog down disproportionatly to a two stage as conditions toughen. 

Toro 621           54

Honda 520        55

Toro 210          51

Toro 418           33

Toro Powerlite  33

  

Two stage:

Toro 826    57

Toro 1028  63

Toro 1128  66

trouts: Nice post. Did not try to compare to other makes. At least the Toro lists the same output for both US and Canadian models. Maybe that is why the US output for the 520 is on the high side. At 32 tons/hr it puts it in the performance of machines almost half the price.

There's short, long and metric tons.   The Honda 520 could be 55 or 50 depending who's tons.   I listed all short tons (US).

trouts2 wrote:

Interesting information.

One thing I might ask, do you really want to confuse the issue with facts?

Take a look at the following video.

I took this the other day watching a wood harvesting operation not far from my home.  This is a good size operation with industrial size equipment.  Everything is pretty much standard wood harvesting equipment.  While watching them, I timed how long it took them to fill a 40' x 8' x 10' chip van with 21 tons of  hog fuel, which is primarily chipped wood/branches and bark.  It took approx. 30 to 40 minutes with the chipper running non-stop.  In this video the chipper starts off slow because it was just relocated.  When running full tilt, it puts out a pretty solid stream. 

Now, I ask, does anyone out there think they have a consumer grade snow blower of any brand or type that can fill one of these high cube vans twice in an hour?  How about even once in an hour?

Hyper link not working.  You'll have to cut and paste.

 http://youtu.be/yK2M1NL2gNQ

 

   The chipper setup is highly optomized speeds and feeds for throughput .   

    I'd bet for snowblowers the marketing guys review what the engineers came up with and went over any possibility to lift those numbers by varying something like ground speed, snow depth, density and etc. 

   Just say you could get a mile of nice flat highway with 20 inches of snow and an 8hp with a 24 wide and a higher than snow bucket.  Say the snow is light enough to clear at an average blower speed of 2-3 on the shifter.   Going for a full hour, no turns, no stops, no breaks just cranking the machine could throughput lots of snow. 

   The van is big but the 21 tons is sketchy.  Are they crunching pine or hardwoods?  One would probably be twice as dense as the other so half the van volume for 21 tons or double ?? depending. 

   Snow volume is always different i.e. density, crystal types & etc so the weather service thinks about it in terms of water, so much water per cubic foot of snow.  But that only tells you what's there at the moment.  There's no defined standard.   Water is heavier than wood chips but in snow form the volume large for the weight.   Once thrown into the van the compacting could make the snow very dense and heavier than wood chips. 

    The marketing number are probably what they are in most spec's.  Attainable only under ideal test conditions.   It's like the specs for laptop battery lift.  You can make the thing work for 8 hours on battery but there isn't a user who would use his laptop in the way required to get 8 hours of up time.   Marketing numbers are sometimes useful for comparisons but no so useful for judging somethings capability.

trouts2 wrote:
Well said. As with a lot of things, they are probably only useful as relative comparisons between machines from the same brand. And, perhaps, really only between same-style (SS vs 2-stage) from the same brand. I'm sure there are cases where, even within a brand, the 20-ton 2-stage can outperform the 25-ton SS. Deep, wet snow, icy stuff, that sort of thing.

This is like contrast ratio ratings for TVs. Those numbers mean squat. Especially with the "cheating" that goes on when they start talking about "dynamic contrast ratios". It's bogus to list a number based on the max possible contrast between a black image with the backlight set fully dim, and a white image with the backlight maxed out. But, all that said, if you're looking at 2 sets from Sony, and one has a 4,000:1 contrast ratio, and the other is 6,000:1, then hopefully the 6,000:1 set really is better in that respect.

Those vans loaded to the very top carry on average 21 tons of hog fuel.  Tonnage may vary by a percent or two but no more.  Volume wise, they are huge.  Tonnage wise, they don't carry that much weight.

From my experience working in heavy transportation, I have a pretty good idea what a ton of anything bulk looks like.  Be it coal, grain, potash, sulfur, gravel, rip rap, crushed rock, and even snow. You name it, I've seen it.   To move 55 tons of snow in an hour  with a consumer grade snow blower would be an incredible feat.   I'd say that if we move 30% of that in an hour, it would still be a hell of a lot of snow.

At best, I'd say the manufacturer's suggested throughput numbers are wildly optimistic.   Something akin to fuel mileage in automobiles but even worse.....  Your mileage/throughput may vary.

Van volume, 40  x  8 x  10 = 3200 sq ft

 

That’s the same as 8 1 foot slices of a driveway 40 feet long by 10 feet wide.

 

A single lane driveway 320 feet long 10 feet wide with 1 foot of snow would be the same volume as the van.  An 8hp with a 24 inch bucket would not have much problem clearing that snow.  That’s 5 passes of a 24 inch bucket the length of a football field.  It would be pretty easy to fill the van volume with light snow.

 

Light snow is estimated at 3lb per cubic foot.   3200 * 3 = 9600 lbs

9600 / 2000 = 4.8 tons. 

 

If an 824 clears at 55 tons per hour that would be about 11.5 sections of 320 foot driveway.  11.5 sections of driveway would be 3680 feet.  55 tons per hour would be about the same as clearing a 3680 foot driveway with one foot of snow, light snow, perfect condition snow.   A mile is 5280 feet so the driveway slightly short of ¾ of a mile.

 

A football field is 48000 sq feet.  With one foot of snow on it 48000 cubic feet.  With light snow on it that would be 144000 lbs or 72 tons.  It would take the 824 about an hour and a quarter to clear a football field with one foot of light snow, perfect snow.

 

Approximate speeds of an Ariens machine.

6 = 2.81 mph

5 = 2.62 mph

4 = 2.08 mph

3 = 1.83 mph

2 = 1.36 mph

1 = 0.87 mpm

Clearing 1 foot of light perfect snow in first would get one pass of the 3/4 mile driveway done in less than an hour.  Clearing perfect light snow 1 foot would have to be done in a higher speed with a 24 inch bucket.  That would be possible with perfect snow.

Your snowblower can probably perform to the marketing per hour spec's of tons per hour if you have marketing snow.

NOTE: A Honda 828 is rated at 35-37 tons per hour.   I've never been able to match the guys Honda 828 next door with any of the US 8hp's I've had here i.e. Snapper, Simplicity, Ariens, Toro, or MTD.  The marketing spec of the Honda seems about right for reality.

Checked the Yamaha spec's.  634 35 tons, 828 50 tons.  Might be a stretch but close.  The engines are running at higher and US rpm's and the same for augers and impellers which are on roller bearings along with roller bearings in the auger gearbox.  Both of these machine will easily be simmilarly powered US machines.