Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Guys,

I may get to go check out some SS's. One is a Yardman 21" 5hp 2-stroke. The other is a Toro CCR2000e 2-stroke.

I am leaning towards the Yardman, based on boratification possibilities. I'm guessing/hoping it has a 5hp Tecumseh, maybe the HSK850. The Toro would have a 4.5hp Suzuki engine, from what I understand. I don't care about electric start. Any reason to avoid the Yardman? I realize it's probably not as solid/durable a machine as the Toro. But if it could be ramped up more in the power department, I could live with that. Thanks for any feedback.

Just my $0.02, but the fact that it doesn't engage "all at once", if you will, could be deliberate. If you squeezed just a little, and the bail kind of just clicked from disengaged to engaged, that might cause a lot of undue wear on the belt when it "hooked up". Kind of like on a 2-stage (which is a bit exaggerated, due the additional rotating impeller/auger mass), if you squeeze the handle abruptly you're more likely to make the belt chirp, as it suddenly has to get everything up to speed right now. That puts a big instantaneous load on the belt. Engaging a bit more gradually may make things easier on the belt, like easing off the clutch in your car, vs dropping the clutch.

Now, that said, I'm assuming that your machine is still adjusted properly. When I got my Yardman, the belt tension was way off. If we actually had any snow to move, I have a feeling the paddles would have simply stalled out in heavier stuff, and I would have smoked the belt at the engine's pulley. Likewise my Ariens SS was also too loose. After getting both adjusted properly, they feel better, and do not seem like they will slip. But both initially had only a small amount of tactile feedback when squeezing the bail. The paddles spun, but the belts were not under much tension. Now, after adjusting them, I feel the springs fighting me more, when I squeeze the bails. I've never used a Toro, so I don't know how much tension you should actually feel. If you can't really feel the belt engage, that makes me wonder if the belt tension needs to be adjusted.

Mine do seem to have some unnecessary bail travel, I'll grant. Seems like maybe the bail shouldn't need quite that much motion. But maybe it's to help ensure that the idler is fully disengaged, and the paddle brake has engaged, to avoid having any light drag between the belt and the engine's pulley while it's just running but not blowing snow.

aa335 wrote:
aa335 - One of the reasons there is no feel in the bail is because.  Both the bail cable and the tension pulley arm are working off a spring.  You could do one of two things if
you just wanted a stronger or less mussy feel.  One would be to get a stiffer spring that hooks in line with the cable.  The other would be to get a stiffer spring that attaches
 to the tension pulley arm.  If you stiffen up that one the bail will hard to engage and will be harder to hold down.  Actually once the belt engages in the pulley grooves
more tension on the tension pulley will only stretch or the belt quicker it won't necessarily keep the belt from slipping.  That is if the belt is in good condition to start with.

The function or operation of most blower tension pulleys is kind of two fold. They remove slack in the belt ( which needs to be there).  But more importantly they push in on the belt in a position that causes more of the belt to come in contact with more surface area of the pulley by pushing the belt in somewhat underneath the drive pulley.  They force the belt to bind up on the pulley.
They are actually just rerouting the belt path.  It's that binding position that really causes the belt to hold and not slip.  That is why on a two stage when the belts starts to stretch out.
You can simply adjust the tension pulley to take up the additional slack.  You can keep doing this until you run out of adjustment, then you have to replace the belt and move the
pulley back to it's starting position.  Other wise your putting more tension on the belt than is needed and will stretch it out before it's time.

You could do a quick & dirty check of your belt tension, aa335, without having to remove any covers. Stick something into the paddles to jam them up and prevent them from turning (a stick, wrench, whatever). Now hold down the control bail. With the ignition switch set to Off, try to pull the starter cord. Once the paddles jam up, you should not be able to pull the cord any further. If the engine will continue to turn, then clearly your belt is slipping and should be adjusted/replaced. If the engine does *not* turn, and the belt holds, that's great. Though it's still not conclusive evidence that the belt is adjusted correctly. Just that you're not getting gross slippage.

I am certain that the belt is not slipping. I've used the snowblower on heavy wet snow at the end of drive and the power is getting delivered to the paddles.  I'm pretty tuned on making proper tension, too little introduces belt slip and wear, too much causes more friction and belt stretch.  Although the flat serpentine belt may be less sensitive to higher friction than the v-belt.

Anyways, the soft bail lever is not a big issue that bother me.  I was just making a tongue in cheek remark since we talked about mono filament cables as an performance enhancement.    Thanks for all who chimed in and offering tips.  I was hoping easy solutions like Seafoam or Veilside stickers make everything better.

The Toro SS bail is fine and works as designed, but it definitely has a different feel than a Honda SS.  Kinda like driving a Toyota and a BMW.  Feedback isolation versus road feel.   At the end of the day, the destination is the same, but the experience is vastly different.  I know, it's just a snowblower. 

Tough crowd aa335....

I knew what you were up to. 

I knew you would, Borat.  You have fine sense of subtlely but jump with a fervor of a spring lion, when needed. 

How's that twine cable working out?  Does it work better with parafin wax , PAM spray, silicone grease, or peanut butter?   I heard the domestic twines aged with crisp Canadian winter air offers great feedback but they tend to break too easily. 

"How's that twine cable working out?  Does it work better with parafin wax , PAM spray, silicone grease, or peanut butter?   I heard the domestic twines aged with crisp Canadian winter air offers great feedback but they tend to break too easily. "

Bulky and notchy come to mind.  A total rip-off. 

Got a line on a guitar string from one of Ozzy Osborne's guitars on ebay.  Might be able to experiment a bit with secondary harmonics to reduce engine vibration and improve over all performance.  Hope nobody outbids me.

borat wrote:
I've heard people using guitar strings on cheese slicers, but this is the first application on a snowblower. 

You know me......

Envelope?  What envelope? 

The nice thing about having no conventional training is that you don't have conventions to restrict you.  Anything goes...

So we finally got some snow yesterday. Not a whole lot, about 4", but it was wet, heavy snow (mixed with rain during the day). Very packable, great for snowballs.

I started out with the Yardman, with HSK850, mildly boratified to 4500 RPM. It did quite well, I have to say. It was throwing reasonably far, I'd say, at least given the conditions, etc. It has quite a bit of power.

I did observe that when I'd 'overfill" the paddles (ground speed too high, not letting it process the snow), it would spray snow forwards along the ground. As that spread out, it would mess up the area I'd just cleared. The machine does have a non-stock paddle assembly apparently from a Toro, which is 1" narrow, and therefore not quite centered under the chute. That may have contributed, I don't know. I did have to stop once and shut it down to clear a glob of snow out of the paddles, as it was acting like it was clogged. Sometimes when finishing a particularly heavy pass, I'd seem to get a whiff of something hot. I don't think the belt is slipping. There was no smoke, no squealing, and I had tried to adjust the belt snugly. I presume the engine was just working hard. A few times I swore it was going to stall (in piles of the wet stuff), but I'd let off, and it would get back up to speed. I did find myself having to push more than I expected, when going up my driveway's incline (just raising the handles wasn't enough). With the snow being so wet and packable, it seemed somewhat difficult to push through.

I did try the Ariens with the HSK600 at 4600 RPM. That was having a lot more trouble, given the type of snow. I could probably have taken narrow passes, but I put it away. I'd just wanted to compare the 2 engines. The HSK850 was very noticeably more powerful

At the end, I was using the Yardman to try and clear areas where previously-blown snow had landed in the driveway. So I had the original 4", plus what did not reach the edge of the driveway on earlier passes. It started approaching a stalemate It was working hard, but wasn't making lots of progress. So I got out the ST824 2-stage. Boy, that's a different feel. From a 4500 RPM 2-stroke to a 3600 RPM 4-stroke. The 2-stage sounds like it's at idle, by comparison, and you don't get all the vibration in the handles. Used that to clear the rest of the extra-packed stuff, without incident. It would just pop the throttle open, bear down, and churn through. But it was putting a good load even on the 2-stage, in 2nd or 3rd gear, so it's not surprising that the SS was having trouble.

I'd call the evening a success. The Yardman performed well, and was reliable.