Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

   Picked up a damaged Powerlite for $10 this summer.  The dash was rammed with something like a pitchfork damaging the dash and case.  On cleaning and firing it up the revs went off the map.  Whatever pierced it went through the engine cowling and broke the governor vane. 

    The cowling was banged out, holes patched with JB Weld and got a new governor vane.  It went right to very high revs and stuck there.  Opened it up again and gave the arm more clearance but it would still stick at high revs at times.  I’ve been in there about 4 times putzing with the fit but it still gets stuck somehow on high revs and I can’t see in there when it’s running to get at the problem.  I gave up on it.  It’s too ugly to sell with the damaged case and became a time pit so decided to use it as is until it blew up.

   It turns out to be quite the machine and I’m getting used to the screaming of the high revs.  It mostly sticks at 6100 rpm which is a bit to high but loaded it’s probably running around 5000-5500 and handles that fairly well. 

    It nets a pretty good improvement in distance and a bit better at the level of snow it can munch.  It’s fine making long straight runs which keeps the RPMs down.  On turning and no load it’s back to screaming.   

    What would be nice is to have some way to get it off and on high rev reliably.  As is I have to bounce and shake it to get it to calm down to 4100 then wait for it to stick again for high rev.  So far I can’t figure a way make it selectable so the best thing to do might be set it for 5600-5700 max and let it run high and normal on it’s own. 

   Without a governor arm there’s no way to Boratify it so I might look around for a 4.5hp MTD if they have a governor arm.  Anyone got any suggestions for planting a control on a vane type?

trouts2 wrote:
I'll confess I'm a bit unclear on which governor arm you're talking about, when you say it doesn't have one. My 3hp SS has a Tecumseh 98cc 2-stroke, HSK600. Is that what this has? Mine has a vane-type governor too.

My governor is working properly, but I have it set at 4600, above the 4300 spec. On mine, the tab that you'd adjust to raise/lower the governed speed has a spring from the tab, to the throttle plate. The governor vane also has a rod from the vane to the throttle plate. Adding tension to the spring will raise the governed speed. Or simply yanking on the throttle plate directly will also do it. I believe Borat has a cable hooked up to let him raise/lower the RPM on-demand.

It occurred to me yesterday that perhaps you could use the bail for the paddles to automatically raise the RPM when you engage the paddles, then drop the RPM's back down at the end of a run, or when letting it warm up.  If you hooked another cable to the bail, perhaps you could run that one to a second, weak spring, so that when you squeeze the handle, it would raise the tension on the governor. It seems to me like adjusting the spring tension might be better that moving the throttle plate directly, since adjusting the spring would still let the governor try to maintain the RPM you're asking for. But if your governor is totally shot for some reason, that might get tougher.

I can post/PM pics of how my stock governor linkage is set up, if that's of any value (probably not). Sorry if I misunderstood what you're asking.

   A fix arm can't be Boratified so obviously not that.  The usual 4-6 inch blade type.that move against a spring set by a throttle control absent on the fix speed vane types.

How about using an old push-mower-type throttle cable & lever and making it a "manual governor"?

 

Bill_H,

   Thought of that before but couldn’t figure out what to connect to.  If connected directly to the throttle then there’s no governor to offset load sag.  I’ve run 7 and 8hp’s with just throttle and the performance was lousy

   BUT...you've make me think about it again and understand what you are suggesting.  The mower cable could take the place of the fixed arm.  The fixed arm holds one end of the spring that connects to the vane.  If the spring was attached to the cable arm instead of the fixed post then the machine would have a variable throttle and governor control set by the lever.  The low end speed could be 4000 and just about anything for the high end.  Interesting and would be worth looking around for a way toreliably plant a cable in there.

 

Bill_H said better what I was trying to explain. Though I was picturing still involving the governor, not driving the throttle plate directly with the cable.

Attach something to where the governor spring attaches to the throttle plate. You could even leave the original spring, and the fixed arm/tab, in place. You could attach a second spring (in parallel with the stock spring) to the throttle plate, going to a throttle cable, for instance. Pull on the throttle cable, and you will pull harder than the stock spring does, and your RPM's climb (the stock spring is now not really doing anything). But release the throttle cable, and you take the tension off your second spring. Now the stock governor spring is doing its job again.

You could adjust the stock spring to whatever RPM you want. Then use the throttle cable & spring to get whatever high-revving RPM works well. You can adjust your higher speed, or just lower the throttle and go back down to the stock RPM.

You might still need to sort out what's making the governor stick, though, if possible. At least what I'm envisioning would still involve the vane governor. You'd just be messing with the spring tension on the governor assembly.

Like you said, figuring out how to hold the cable in-place might be the trickiest part. Though a cable implies a stiff, difficult-to-route item. Borat mentioned he uses a string, I think. That could be easier. Run the string/flexible cable along the outside of the housing, perhaps, then just drill a hole in a spot where the string can go through, to pull on the mechanism. Strings can make tight 90* turns more easily than cables.

    It's in the high 50's today so poked around with the Powerlite.   Hooking up a hard wire cable went to the back burner.   The governor arm was adjusted to get 5000 RPM and a string put on the throttle arm to pull back the governor when it gets stuck going off the map.   At 5000 it sounds pretty good and not taxing the engine.

Nice! Good idea with the string to kind of kick the governor loose. Simply adjusting the governor higher is certainly more straightforward than adding something to manually raise the revs on-demand. What kind of engine is yours? Mine's an HSK600. All this talk of spinning faster has me tempted to crank mine up further and see how it does.

    Yes, an HSK600.  It's a great engine.   Lots of older machines out there with these engines that are in fine shape. 

   The governor arm as you know is very easy to get to and the adjustment no so sensitive you'll have to tweak for a half hour to get it right.  Very simple.  I'll run it with the cover off until I find the rev level that works the best. 

   On the string. 

   The purpose on mine is to jerk the vane out of hysteria.  It also can work the governor down without being a fussy hard to do thing with the string.  If I want to run much higher it will still be possible to tweak the arm to say 6000 and string it down to 4000 until it gets loaded the let it rip to 5000-5500 rpm.  (Currently I have it set for 5000 but it will be clearing at maybe 4500).

   All this would be useful if there was snow.  It's looking like it will be at least some time after Feb 5th before we get any useful slow.

Yeah, that would be a cool idea, to set the governor high, and manually drag the RPM's down between runs. I think a way to tie it into the bail for the paddles (squeeze the handle, RPM's climb) would be neat, put probably not worth it.

Just curious, have you checked the compression of yours? Mine read 90 psi, which seemed a bit low. But, from the service manual, it sounds like it may actually have a compression release. So perhaps that's bringing the reading down.

For your governor sticking, have you tried spraying all the connections for the governor & throttle linkages with maybe carb cleaner to clean then off, then a bit of silicone or similar to ensure they're lubed?

>>>have you tried….

 

    I’ve tried everything and spent and embarrassing amount of time on the sticking governor.  It’s very irregular and can go for long periods without sticking like it’s fixed then sticks again.  It might be the hole the spur on the governor arm goes into is out of round.  ???

 

>>>have you checked the compression of yours? Mine read 90 psi, which seemed a bit low.

 

   90 seems ok but I’m not sure.  I only take a reading if they seem like they won’t perform and those are generally less than 50.

 

>>>it may actually have a compression release.

 

    It does.  There’s a plate on the side of the head but I don’t know how it works.  

Personally, I'd make a throttle stop to keep the engine at 4500 minimum rpm the attach a cable to control the throttle butterfly for addition rpms when desired.   Put a return spring on the butterfly to pull it back to lower speed setting and a piece of wire/string on the linkage to pull the throttle open as required.

Hey;

Thank for these ideas for a manual throttle. I have a R*Tek Power Clear 221QR and I like your 2 spring approach.

Here's what I'm thinking :

Attach a flat small bracket to nest next to existing gov spring bracket. New bracket will have a small hole in it at top.

Adjust stock gov bracket to lower rpm for idle (governed) @ ~ 2,200 rpm

Attach second lite spring (need to test out various springs) to throttle arm on carb. this second spring must be slack when throttle is in idle mode.

Attach other end of second spring to 50 lb mono fishing line with a small loop with a crimp-on fitting.

Insert tag end of length of fishing mono through the new bracket small hole.

Devise a max rpm stop on throttle line by crimping on a metal fitting on mono so that is contacts new bracket at max governed rpm desired (mine will be ~4,100)

Route mono line up to handlebar to a fitting that will hold line - maybe using a lawnboy throttle housing that bolts to side of handlebar.

Can't wait to see how that turns out.  Can you post pictures on throttle/governor override linkage?

4100 rpm?

That's milk-toast.  Set max rpm to 5000 and use the rpm range available.   The R-tek should handle 5000 rpm easily.  Particularly if it's only in relatively brief bursts of max throttle.   

Ok, so 5,000 rpm is safe in small doses, man that must sound like something since at 4,100 my power clear is loud   

as Sh*t. .. (love it though).

Does anyone know the HP rating at 4,100? 4 or 5? Thank you.

I enjoy cranking  it up at 10pm, breath in deeply, playing Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze, to get started on the snow, sadly we have exactly ZERO snow this winter so far.

Off-topic ps: my new secret 2 stroke oil trick: Liqui-Moly Racing Bike Oil additive MOS2 (Yes, it works in two strokes) .

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1580.html?Opendocument&land=GB

The R-tek 141cc engine is rated at 5 h.p. at 4000 rpm.  You'd probably see 6.5 to 7 at 5000 rpm.  You will notice a difference in performance when you crank it up.   That's for sure.   I had mine originally set at 4500 rpm and it was too much to hold back on a steep downhill grade.    Nice to use on level surface or even uphill but too much to handle going downhill. 

Borat, thank you for this info.

On a Toro Powerlite 3hp (might be a 3.5hp).

    Installed a spring in the same hole the governor spring goes in then ran the spring with a string out of the side of the case.  It works much better than connecting string directly to the throttle plate.  Going direct is ok and the pull back comes from the governor vane end but not the best arrangement.  The spring setup should allow better control with gloves on. 

    The governor and spring is set for 5000 baseline and the spring working the boot from 5000 - 6000.   That makes one machine with a spring and three direct connects.  We'll see how things go when snow arrives which is now looking like somewhere past the 20th of the month.