Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

   While googling around for parts compatibility I came across a machine I never new existed.  A two stroke two stage Toro 726.model 38610 which I think is also called a PowerMax 6000..   Never knew this thing existed or any two stage with a two stroke.  It's been around for a while.  The model I looked at was made from 2004-2008 and had two stroke and four stroke versions.

The two stroke version used an R-Tek 141cc running at 4000 +- 250RPM
Auger at 123
Impeller at 1228

  Anyone have one of these things?  What's it like?

  Another interesting point:

    It looks like the model came in 26 inch and 28 inch buckets.  The 26 had the two stroke and pin locking wheels.  The 28 inch I think had a four stroke and could come with the Toro trigger wheel locking drive.  The wheel locking drive looks very similar to the design MTD used for many years. Credit MTD with being first in innovation and Toro following MTD's lead. 

   Low level MTD had a few features that were nice the big guns did not have.  They had axles on roller bearings and a very nice feature of dual belts for the auger drive, something Ariens went to in the last few years after many user complaints of slippage. 

There's a participant named Superbuick who owns one and has something on Youtube showing his line up of two stroke Toro machines. 
They are neat machines and fairly rare.  That's for sure. 

If I recall correctly, they use a slightly different R-tek engine in it.  Different piston and possibly porting.  Not sure.   Something has to be different to get 7 h.p. out of the R-tek considering the rpms are the same as the R-tek in my 221Q which I think is rated at 5 h.p.   However, we all know how the horsepower game goes.  Lots of imagination, few facts.  

Yeah, my '93 MTD 8-hp 2stage has 2 belts for the augers. My '93 Ariens 8hp 2-stage just has one. It had occurred to me that if I ever wanted to re-power the Ariens, I'd prefer to go to something greater than 8hp, and I might start damaging belts if I went to, say, an 11hp engine or something. For pretty much all the other areas of the machines, the Ariens seems better built/designed (bigger augers, differential instead of a pin lock, chute crank is right up on the control panel, thicker sheet metal, etc), but the 2-belts on the MTD is something I wouldn't mind having. For all the times the MTD's engine got bogged down trying to slog through EOD, I never saw anything that looked like belt slippage.

   Found the YouTube video.  He's got a couple on there using the machine in snow.  It's got that single stage sound and seems to toss fine.

   Checked the carb  of my 3650 to the 726TE.  Toro spec's a different nozzles for the same carb body.   The ring and rod assmeblies are the same for both.
Toro has been pushing the 141cc for a few years.  I'm not positive but that 141cc engine may have started as a 4.5hp, a 5hp at least.   Given the same components and the push to 7hp the components must be rated to take the extra heat and pressures.  Given that, a 5hp would probably outlast a 7hp.  Maybe the machine to own for the long haul is a 2540 at 5hp.   
  

  For all the bad press the MTD machines get I think they are ok, at least the older machine.  The dual belts are a great feature.  These days they have dropped back to a single belt on all the newer models I've seen. 

   Ariens has a kit for converting some of their machines to dual belts.

   BTW: I've converted a few 924050 Ariens 8hp's to 11's.  There's no problem with the belt if your using the machine properly.  If you overloading the bucket all the time then eventually the belts go. 

I wouldn't be too concerned about longevity between a 5 h.p. and 7 h.p. engine.   Particularly if the rpms are the same because neither machine is putting on more piston travel nor crank rotations.   I've been running my old 1997 Craftsman Tecumseh engine at 6000 to 6500 for a while now and it's doesn't seem to mind.  Time will tell I guess but so far, it's been flawless and with the added power, an excellent little snow mover. 

So, Trouts, you say that the only difference between a 5 h.p. and a 7 h.p.  R-tek is the size of the main jet?  I can see that being true.   If the exhaust system remains the same, one can safely assume that it's built big enough to allow for the larger main jet.  As a rule, when I modify my two stroke motorcycles to make more power, I increase the size of the main jets and also change the exhaust system to match.  But, we're looking at 350cc engines making close to 50 h.p. at 9500 rpm.  Considerably different than an engine loafing along at 4000 to 4500 rpm. 

Hi Trouts, I have a 726te. Its a great machine - lots of torque and works markedly better than a craftsman professional 11/28 and an ariens platinum owned by my neighbors - likely the powermax design but the unit isnt hindered at all by the smaller displacement two stroke - if anything it feels torquier to me... I believe the difference in the "7hp" r*tek versus the 4.5/5/6/6.5 r*teks is an extra port or two in the piston/cylinder. I think if you check the parts list for the 726 or the snow commander it confirms this - i havent looked in a while but if my memory serves me that was the difference.

Yeah, I remember reading something about the piston/ports being different as well.  What I don't understand is that if the engine compression remains unchanged and the rpms stay the same, where's the additional power coming from?   Is there a difference in compression between the 7 and 5 h.p. engines? 

From my experience, changing ports and pistons is usually done to allow better breathing for higher rpms to make more power.  I find it unusual that if  two essential components to make power (compression and engine speed) remain the same but considerably more power is produced,  how does that happen?  

Superbuick, are you earfoot4?

  Both machines are spec'ed at 4000 RPM.  The crank and block part umbers are different but the bore, stroke and crank journal are the same size.  They probably left some weight on the crank lobes.  The mufflers are broken out differently in the exploded views with the 3650 being a single part and an assembly in the 726 so no telling if they are the same or not. 

   Whatever they've done it seems like the 726 is a tiger.  It would be interesting to see what it would do beside a Honda or Yamaha 624.  Seems like a nice machine.  I'll have to keep an eye on CL.  Maybe I can get one from CL from a guy who relys on the mechanic in a can. 

Yes, those videos are mine. Ive never run a 624 honda or yamaha so i cant say, but the unit is definitely more capable than the aforementioned craftsman or ariens (i feel like it was a 13.50 "gross torque" model but ill have to check with the guy when he has it out this winter). Ive also got to get a better video of it going through some "serious" EOD - its hard for me to video because im usually alone and in a rush when i'm clearing the driveway and i also do a few neighbors' driveways as well. Last year a friend and i used the 726 to clear a path around my house after we had cleared the roof of snow and he was also highly impressed with it. Its a great machine and i love it - i only wish it had more features like trigger differential and a headlight.

Ariens also made some back in the day..
it was their "Metro" 937000 series,
Ariens only had four models, and they were only made from 1990 to 1995.






They were basically  the "body" of a single-stage, with the 2-stroke engine, but with a 2-stage auger and impeller..
the concept must not have been terribly sucessful, (for any of the manufacturers) because no one makes them anymore..
I think they must be quite rare..I had been working on my Ariens webpage for 2 years before I was even aware of their existance!

Scot