Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I saw a posting about a week ago on Craiglist, someone was clearing out their shed, and was offering an Ariens single stage snow thrower for free. I was fortunate enough to be the first one to call. By the time I got over there, he said he'd gotten about 15 calls about it, and he got 2 more while I was getting it in the car. He said it ran when they put it away 2 years ago, but wouldn't start. It turned out to be an SS322. Has a Tecumseh HSK600 engine, 98 cc, 2-stroke, 3 hp.

Got it home and tried the obvious/easy stuff. Drained out the gas, which looked disconcerting (had some dark stuff that stayed as a liquid layer at the bottom of the tank and would not mix in with the rest of the gas). That didn't help. It would start using starting fluid or carb cleaner, and run for a few seconds, but that was it. I measured about 90 psi compression. The cylinder & piston looked good to me, looking in through the exhaust port.

Long story short, I got a rebuild kit, and did my first carb rebuild yesterday. Opened it up and was horrified to find a bunch of green stringy goop on the float and bowl, and a whole lot of nasty brown globs at the bottom of the bowl. It looks like someone took the bowl off previously, and sealed around the o-ring (which was still installed) with something, maybe silicone? The o-ring was covered in this stuff, and it was visible on the outside of the o-ring, before removing the bowl. The gas seemed to have eaten that, and the carb was just a real mess (everything was plugged, etc). Took a whole lot of carb cleaner, and soaking the carb in Berryman B-12 after removing the plastic/rubber stuff, plus scraping stuff off of it, etc. But finally got the insides cleaned up. The only question was about reinstalling the plastic (emulsifier?) tube that goes up from the main jet. I had 2 new o-rings in my kit, one seemed a bit bigger than the other. I put the bigger one at the "back", down by the jet. Put some oil on them, and pushed the tube into the carb by pushing it with a punch to try and support the rear o-ring. It kind of slipped off the back of the tube (did not stay in its groove), and ended up between the tube and the main jet. I hope that's OK. I didn't want to risk damaging the o-rings by driving it back out and trying again.

Once I was ready to reassemble it, I discovered a hole in the freshly-cleaned carb bowl, which had some serious corrosion on the inside. Picked up a new bowl today.

Reassembled it tonight, took it outside, and it fired up on the second pull! I was thrilled. Wasn't sure if my first carb rebuild attempt was actually going to work. It's not running perfectly smoothly, it seems to be 4-stroking a bit. The carb is not adjustable. I'm hoping it will smooth out when I put a load on it. It was about 60F out. I may put some Seafoam in the gas, to see if I can finish removing anything that might be left in the carb. I need to replace the auger belt, and check over the rest of the machine. But I'm happy, maybe I'll get to try a little 2-stroke single stage machine this winter. It would be cool if this was the 5hp version, but I certainly can't complain, for the price :) I have an electric Toro Powercurve 1800 for clearing the deck. Perhaps this could replace the Toro.

Anyways, I was just happy about it finally starting up, and wanted to share.

Good job, but check the recall list.  I had one like that, I think as you described, also salvaged and there was a safety recall on it.

Shoulda kept it, but it went back on CL since I have two bigger ones.

Not sure if I fully understand your comments about the emulsifier tube and the O-rings.  Totally unfamiliar with that carb.  I have two Tecumseh HSK600 engines and have had the carbs off of both of them.   It seems that the carbs on the HSK600 are different than yours.  If you inserted the emulsifier tube/O-rings improperly, that might effect engine smoothness.  What oil to fuel ratio doe the engine require.

Never thought I'd say it but, I'm really impressed with those Tecumseh two strokes.  I've generally been a Japanese or nothing two cycle engine fan.  Since acquiring and using/abusing these old Tecumseh engines, I've learned to appreciate how good they seem to be.  The way I've been flogging them,  I'll find out how durable they are soon enough I guess.   

To me, the split big end/needle bearings combination may pose to be it's achilles heel.  Pretty much all other two cycle engines except the old Lawn Boy engines and maybe the R-tek have a unitized needle bearing in the connecting rod big end installed on a pressed crank.  All Japanese two cycle engines I've worked on have had unitized needle bearings/big ends installed on pressed cranks.  They never let go there because the connecting rod is a single piece.  On the Tecumseh two cycle engines, the bottom of the con rod is held on with screws and the bearing needle have to counted to ensure they're all there and carefully placed within the two connecting rod pieces.  Tricky business to say the least and a place where things like to go boom if the screws loosen off.  

This is an HSK600 engine, the same basic model as yours. Not sure what carb is on your engines, of course. This machine is from '97 or '99, and the carb is not adjustable at all, so maybe it's different than yours. The service manual stated that in adjustable units, the emulsifier tube (I think that's the right term; it sticks up from the main jet into the air stream, before the throttle plate) is permanently mounted (not serviceable), and is metal. In "emissions" carbs, like mine, it's plastic and removable.

This picture is not mine, but it shows what I'm talking about. The tip at the right sticks into the air stream. The left-hand end buts up against the main jet. My left-hand o-ring slipped a bit out of location while re-inserting this tube back in the body. It slipped out of the groove in the plastic part, and moved towards the left, relative to this picture. But hopefully it's OK.

The gas cap says 50:1 for oil. I currently have 32:1 fuel in it, I believe (it was what I had available, and I was just trying to get it to start). I will switch it to my 91-octane, 45:1 with Stihl Ultra (synthetic) oil mix when I get a chance. Was not trying to make a big issue of this, sorry. The engine surges currently, but I have not been able to put a load on it. I'm hoping that it will smooth out when it gets in some snow. I tried engaging the augers and tilting it forward, to make it pull itself along, and add a bit of a load. It may have smoothed out a little, or it was just my imagination :)

My mistake.  My engines are HSK850s.  They're 139ccs and rated at 5 h.p.

That emulsifier tube doesn't look anything like what's in my carbs.  Mine are brass.   One engine is a 1997 model the other is a 2004.  The older engine  has far more time on it and it runs just as well as the newer one which has very little time on it.  They seem to be very durable.

Both of my engines start on the first pull, no matter how cold, run very smooth and constant under no load.  Could be just the difference between engine models. 

Have you pulled the muffler to inspect it and the exhaust ports for carbon deposits?   I pulled mine and there was some build up but not an alarming amount. 

Have you checked your compression.   Mine were at 120+ psi  which is very good. 

If your engine has the same governor set up as the HSK850 and you want to get some power out of that engine, put a piece of string/wire on the governor lever so that you can use the string as a throttle.  I've done that with both of mine and the effects are very rewarding.  I operate my Tecumseh power SS machines like a chainsaw.  No load, no increase in rpms.   Put a load on it, pull the string and watch the snow fly!  The other day I was clearing about 3" of slushy snow.  The machine wouldn't do anything until I cranked up the rpms.  It seems the added velocity of the paddles throws the slush better. 

I did have the muffler off while doing the carb. I didn't take a good look inside it, but I can check it. I had checked the compression when I got it, at ~90 psi (struck me as low). I'm curious to check it again, now that it runs normally off of gas, and maybe has a better film of oil on the cylinder, which would help seal it up better. Perhaps when I was trying starting fluid (when I checked the compression) it would have washed some of the oil off, letting the air blow by more. I doubt it would make a meaningful difference, but I'm curious nonetheless. The cylinder wall opposite the exhaust, and the side of the piston facing the exhaust, both looked good to me.

It took ~5 pulls to start it last night, vs 2 right after the carb reassembly. But I may try starting it differently. Not sure if I kind of flooded it by priming it too much or something. May need to find the right balance of priming & choke.

I'm intrigued by the idea of being able to rev it up, to increase the paddle tip velocity. I might try that, just to see the difference. Don't want to blow the engine, of course. Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.

Yeah 90 psi does sound a bit low but not necessarily.  I have old Lawn Boy engines that are factory spec between 80 and 90 psi. 

Compression test should be performed on a cold engine, no oil in the cylinder and repeated pulls on the pull start until the gauge no longer show increments in pressure.  Keep the throttle fully open and strong quick pulls are required to get a good reading. 

By rights, that engine shouldn't be too worn.  After all, unless used commercially, it would only see so many hours of use per year.  Hardly enough to drop compression, unless, it was straight gassed.  Another thing to consider is the gauge.  Mine is low when tested against the gauge on my air compressor.   Do you have any idea of the age of the machine? 

I've lucked out on the used ones I've bought.   The engines are fairly fresh.  Both machines were mechanically challenged.  The Craftsman had a cracked motor mount which caused it to eat belts so it was put away in a shed for years and didn't see too much service.  The guy who sold it to me did not disclose that.  Not that it matters that much.  I fixed the motor mount, put on a new belt and have a well running machine with a good engine.  The 2005 MTD I bought dirt cheap had enough water in the float bowl to freeze the float during winter.  So that machine spent most of it's short life in a shed too.   The older Craftsman is the better of the two machines.  Since repairing the motor mount, it's seen a lot of hard service and plenty or high rpm.   Not sure how long the engine will last but I have the suspicion that it will just fine.  I bought the MTD primarily for the engine.  If the Craftsman does blow, I have the MTD on standby.  It's not just sitting in storage however.  I have it on my 16' x 14' deck to deal with big dumps.

Last year I also bought a used two stroke Toro Power Shovel.  I got it for a song as well.  The pull rope would come out but the engine wouldn't turn.  Person I bought it from thought it was busted.  I opened it up and noticed the engagement palls weren't engaging the drum attached to the crank.   A couple bursts of WD-40 and some wiggling around has it running like a champ.  Same story with that one.  Guy bought it new, used it for a year then stored it.  When he took it out it wouldn't start.  Back in the shed it goes for many years then he decides to get rid of it.   It's a real neat little device.  Light, relatively powerful and surprisingly effective.

The only thing I find with SS machines is that their throwing distance is compromised when the chute is not pointing straight forward.  Not real bad but noticeable.  Nothing that a couple thousand more rpms won't take care of. 

Getting a little antsy for snow here.   All we've been getting lately is dustings of snow, clear  and sunny with high winds and cold temps.   Not my cup of tea.  Gimme snow!!!

 

Just wanted to post an update. I changed the gas to my existing 45:1 mix (gas cap says to use 50:1), and gave it a new spark plug. Checked the compression again, it was about 88 psi. Squirted in some 3-in-1 oil, and it went up to maybe 93 psi. I'm happy with those, I guess. The machine is from '97 or '99, I have no reason to think it has lots of hours on it. I don't know how to tell when the paddles are worn out, unfortunately. Is there something you can measure? If I raise the handle, the paddles hit the ground and it pulls itself forward, as they should. This is my first gas SS.

Put on a new belt, got that all adjusted. I tweaked the governor a bit, from 4000, where it had been, up to what is apparently 4600. The spec is 4300. I was just trying to get a bit more speed on the paddles, but I can drop the governor back down if the extra speed will cause a problem. I thought about adding a string to let me manually open the throttle for better flinging, but I will leave it as-is for now. I did try manually closing the throttle, and it idled down smoothly, to about 2800 RPM. So I assume the idle jet/passage is working properly. I am hoping the surging will go away once it has a load on it.

grump, thank you for the info on the recall. I talked to Ariens, gave them the model and serial, they said mine was not part of the recall, so that's good.

I think it's ready for winter. I am going to give my electric Toro SS to my parents, so this will take over deck-clearing duty. I will also try it on the driveway, maybe it will get used instead of my two-stage for light snows.

Yo Red:

That machine should be great for a deck.  I'm using the  MTD single stage machine on my deck if the snow accumulation is sufficient enough to cause me to fire it up.   The nice thing with a blower on the deck is that you can fire the snow over the balusters and railing rather than shoveling through.  I built my deck with snow in mind so I left a 4" space between the deck surface and the cross member used to attach the bottom of balusters.  I can shovel most snow under it.   However, when we get a big dump, that's not a happening thing so the SS machine with the "speed string" takes care of that.  Another bonus is that the snow is thrown a fair distance from the deck.  My deck is a good five feet off the ground but by mid winter, the snow banks are usually right up to the surface and snow isn't as easily shoveled off. 

Yeah, you're going to appreciate having a light SS machine for deck duty.  Put a string on the governor if it doesn't fire the snow fast or far enough for you.  You'll be all smiles when you crank it up!

My only concern about the machine is having to carry it up the ~10 feet of stairs to my deck (which is, not surprisingly, ~10 feet off the ground), including the turn in the stairs. I have a feeling that will be awkward at best, in the dry weather. Add some snow/ice to the stairs, and it could get iffy. I don't really like the idea, but I could store it up on the deck, under a tarp, to avoid carrying it up & down each time. My electric weighed about 25 pounds, which was easy to move around. This is much bulkier (so it's awkward to pick up), and weighs 60 lbs.  We will see how it works out.

I park mine on the deck all winter under the eave of the house.  Don't even cover it. 

You'd be better off just leaving it there for the duration.  Just buy one of those big inexpensive plastic tote boxes and throw that over it or modify it to use as a cover.  That will keep it out of the elements.