Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

December is here and I'm anxiously waiting for some good snow to arrive.  I've been bit by the 2 cycle bug recently.  I have the Toro 421QE, which is the 4 cycle version of the 221Q.  I thought it may be redundant to pick up a used 221Q so I've been looking into getting a Toro Powerlite.  Plus, I can hang the Powerlite up on a wall.  the 221Q is too big and heavy to do so.

Anyways, anybody got a recommendation for a compact SS two-cycle?  If not, please provide a 7 step sure fire way to cure the 2 cycle habit.  :)

t the present time , I have only one 2 cycle powered machine , A Poulin 3416 chain saw. But the engine revs to 12,500 rpm,  and can do so because of its simple 2 cycle design

Over the years I have owned and operated many 2 cycle powered machines.    I once had a little Yamaha 100cc motorbike, it was 2 cyl  and had nice  chrome  exhaust pipes, on each side. It did not have a tach, but it really screamed when pushing it hard . In contrast., I once owned a highway tractor that had a (GM at the time)  Detroit 2 cycle diesel,  It was an 8/71, meaning it had 8 cyl with 71 cubic inches per cylinder.Of course these engines all had a roots type blower, only port intake in the cyl liner but had 4 valve (ohv)heads , all exhaust valves. I had lots of power, but   tougher  emission regulations drove these. engines out of production. It is much more difficult to build a "clean" 2 cycle, but I still believe that there is a lot of development  still left in the 2 cycle engine

I have one for you.  Just picked one of these up this fall. It's a Toro CR20E.  The Toro Snow Master, S200 and S620 are all very similar.  And the CR20E is about the same size.
Except that it has a Power Curve auger instead of the drum type that the others have.  They all have the vanes that direct the flow of snow.  I used to laugh when I saw one until
I had a chance to use one.  They have their place.  Since they don't have a chute they never clog.  And will blow the wettest stuff you can find.  I've even blown out 2" deep puddles
of water with my old S620.  They are super light weight.  Here is a video of one working hard but not minding it a bit.  They are fun little blowers

I remember learning to drive tractor trailers in a COE Brockway with 8v71 engine. It was awesome the whine of the blower and the rhythm of the engine.

aa335: Any attempt at removing the OPE gene inherent in all men is futile. Just give in to it, respect it, and move along... nothing to see here!

Right now I have aTecumseh two cycle powered 2005 MTD SS machine sitting on my deck, a 1997 Tecumseh two cycle powered Craftsman SS in the back yard (I clear a paved area behind the house), a 2010 Toro 221QE in the garage parked beside the Simplicity and a Toro two cycle power shovel sitting beside the Toro.  All filled up and waiting to go.  I've run all four two cycle engines with only the newest machine, the 221QE giving me a minor carb problem with a dirty main jet.  Cleaned it and put it to work.  All of the two cycle machines have seen some duty so far this season.  The Toro did the most work by  clearing 3" of wet snow from our 110' x18' with a 35'x35' turn around at the top driveway.   Craftsman did the back yard 25' x 35' portion.  MTD did the 16'x14 deck and the power shovel did the stairs and landing. 

I bought the MTD, Craftsman and Toro power  shovel combined for less than half the price of the 221QE.  It's nice to have a machine parked and ready to go wherever you need it.  All of the machines fired on the first pull except the power shove because it has a diaphragm carb and due to being stored dry, it needed a few pulls to get the fuel into it. 

I took out the Simplicity today and removed the bottom plate to clean the grease off the easy steer couplers and do a general inspection of the drive system.  Everything looks good to go. Fired up the Echo Shred N' Vac leaf blower as well.  Use it for blowing light snow off of the steps and deck.  I even lit up my old '87 Polaris Sprint snowmobile just to keep fuel in the carbs.  Now  that's one smoky machine when cold and it was well below zero F this morning.   Yeah, I got the two cycle thing going.  That's for sure.  And believe it or not, I'm the only guy around here with an SS machine.  I've yet to see anything but two stage machines for miles around me.   After a dump, you'll hear nothing but four stroke engines droning along but not one two cycle until I go to work.

jrtrebor wrote:
That little CR20 is impressive for its size.  I think that video was taken by Superbuick. 

FrankMA wrote:
Yes, I guess it's better than drinking and gambling.  It's a whole lot cheaper than trying to make a car go faster.  My two set of wheels and tires is more expensive than all my small OPE stuff combined.

borat wrote:
In my subdivision, it's mostly 4 stroke, 2 stage snowblowers.  Only two of  my neighbors next to me are using 2 stroke machines.  After listening to the neighbor's Toro 221 QR for the last 3 years, I've grown to like the sound of it.  I can tell who's outside clearing snow by the sound of the engines.  There's the sound of Briggs OHV, Tecumseh 2 stroke, Brigss Rtek, and the old side valve engine.  It's quite a concert when all of the engines are running after a big storm.

Yeah, around here SS machines are rare.  Kijiji will list numerous two stage machines but very, very seldom to you see a SS machine.  I'm certain that I bought the last two SS machines that were listed last season.  This year, no SS machines listed on Kijiji yet.  

If you get a two cycle SS machine, modify the governor so that you can use it as throttle.  Nothing like spinning it up to 6000 rpm and pushing into a good pile of snow.  It's amazing what they'll do when they're cranked up.   Even a cheap Craftsman will bomb impressive amounts of snow when run at high speeds.  Lots of fun to do and watch.  

I was cleaning up the eod snow at the bottom of the driveway.  Not very high, maybe 16" but mostly slush.   I was gnawing away at it with the Craftsman and it was moving it quite well.  Our new neighbour came over to see what I was using and commented that he used to have a Toro CCR2000 and it wouldn't do what the Craftsman was doing.  He was actually thinking that a Craftsman SS machine is better than a Toro??  I explained that if the Craftsman were running at it's normal operating speed, it wouldn't be doing any where near as well as it was.   At normal operating speeds, it's lame.  Real lame.  Crank it up and it's very impressive.  Not sure how long it can keep it up but so far, it doesn't seem to mind at all.  I think the trick is to make sure the machine under a good load when cranking up the revs.  I like the ability to control the engine speed.   Need power?  Pull the string.   

Why are the 2 stroke engines rev so easily without strain?  I've been favoring the 4 stroke engines due to more relaxed RPMs, low end torque, and lower exhaust tone.  However, if these 2 stroke engines are comfortable being rev up, I might change my view on them.  How are the torque curve for a 2 stroke at higher RPMs?

 

>>Why are the 2 stroke engines rev so easily without strain? 

 

   Part of the reason is no cam and valves to move, short stroke, lighter components, power on every stroke,

 

>>However, if these 2 stroke engines are comfortable being rev up

 

   They were designed for that and comfortable.

 

>>How are the torque curve for a 2 stroke at higher RPMs?

  

   Tough to get an engine curve but generally the two strokes fall off very rapidly on the high end but designs place the useable range up there.  A high rev’ing chainsaw, wacker or snowblower can do ok up there but the fall off is into the operating range.  For example it’s no problem do buzz through an 18 inch maple with a chainsaw.

 

  Theoretically 2 and 4 stokes have their advantages and weak points and there are many more considerations than what I mentioned above.  Just how good any machine is depends on the implementation for that specific machine.  On that point Toro has a proven record of spec’ing engines to bodies that can take the rev’s (both).

 

   By far the best second hand machines are Toro’s for age vs wear.  The chances are high the engine is fine (compression wise) other than some minor fix and the same for the bodies.

 

    Murray or MTD machines usually require more work and expense.  Murray machines were more difficult to get parts for and usually required more so I stopped buying those long ago.  Eventually the same for MTD although parts were no problem.  The MTD’s in the 4-5hp range were pretty good and I know a few professional clearers who prefer them.  Their smaller machines are not so great and no match for a Toro.

 

   All engines by Briggs of a cc size are not the same.  Just what a factory orders from Briggs in an 87 or 141 cc engine can vary.  What Toro spec’s are good components..

 

   For a “wall hanger” size SS an excellent choice would be a Powerlite.  They can take the rev’s and bumping their rev spec for short excursions not a big deal.  They’ll toss decent snow 25 feet but crap out quickly in high or wet conditions but they handle an inch or two of soaked slush.  They’re perfect for cleaning up and can be flipped around easily, unlike the more ponderous 2450 and 3650, big difference.  The Powerlite is a scrappy and fun machine to use.

Excellent info Trouts.

The key to two cycle engines being capable of high rpms is the fact that every upward movement is a compression stroke and every downward movement is a power stroke.   On a four stroke, the exhaust stroke is throwing the piston upward with very little resistance compared to a compression stroke.  The piston if flung upward with virtually no pressure on it then rapidly pulled down.  This absence of pressure in both directions isn't a good thing.  It's like a dog running full tilt to the end of it chain then being yanked back just as hard.  The faster a four stroke engine spins, the more stress on the components such as crank, wrist pins, connecting rods and even pistons. 

As far as torque is concerned, I've seldom seen situations that will stall the two cycles any more readily than an equivalent powered four cycle.   The main difference is how the engines respond to heavy loads.  A two cycle tends to work hard and strong to a point and when it's pushed to where it will stall, revs drop rather quickly whereas a four cycle will start to bark, drop some revs then if pushed further, stall out.

I find that if you have any kind of hearing, you can tell when a two cycle engine is happy.  When it's happy it will outperform a four stroke of equivalent displacement and if you spin it up, there's no comparison.  I had about an inch of snow on the driveway this morning so I shoveled it all to one side then went for the old Craftsman SS.   We don't have much snow here and temps have been below zero F. for a couple nights so I want to put as much snow on the front lawn as possible to keep frost penetration to a minimum.   The Craftsman handily threw the snow a good 25 feet or more when I put the revs to it.  The fun factor shouldn't be underestimated either.  It's light, powerful and effective.  Nice combination under all but the most demanding situations.

borat wrote:
That's interesting, I've never heard/considered that perspective, about the piston coming up and changing direction without resistance during the exhaust stroke. I'd offer a mild "counter-argument" that it changes direction just as quickly at it bottoms out during each stroke, also not fighting any pressure. And that aspect remains the same for a 4-stoke or a 2-stroke. One difference I suppose is that the connecting rod is under compression when it changes direction at the bottom of the stroke, whereas it is in tension when doing it at the top of the stroke, for whatever difference that might make (not a whole lot, I'd think). I'd expect that a bigger contributor to the fact that 2-strokes tend to rev higher is that there is no reciprocating valve train to deal with. No valves to float, valve spring tensions to deal with, and less reciprocating mass.

On the note of comparing 2-strokes to 4-strokes at the same displacement, I don't think that's quite a fair comparison. As the 2-stroke fires twice as often, they typically have a higher power/displacement ratio (maybe a 200cc 2-stroke is 6 hp, vs 4 hp for a 200cc 4-stroke, to make up numbers). Comparing engines of the same horsepower or torque would seem more fair. But I have little doubt that you can also rev up the 2-stroke substantially higher than the 4-stroke, when messing with the governor.

Don't take any of this the wrong way. I think 2-strokes are interesting, and just got one that I'll hopefully get to try out this winter. Just having a discussion.

Certainly valve train limits a four stroke engine ability to rev.  Even differences between valve configurations, (flat head, OHV, OHC and DOHC) will have an effect on how well an engine will handle high rpms. 

Without valve trains to consider,  the only things in common with four and two stroke engines is crankshafts, connecting rods, wrist pins, pistons and rings.  Therefore the application of those items need to be understood.  That's why I focused on those components in my explanation.  Two cycle engines can be revved without load to very high rpms and not be subject to the potential damage that is more likely to occur in a four cycle engine.  Spinning a four stroke to extreme rpms without a load can possibly cause connecting rod big ends to go a bit out of round.  At least that used to be the theory.  Two strokes on the other hand have their pistons always on either a power stroke or a compression stroke thus keeping everything under a constant load. 

You ever wonder why two cycle engine cranks are pressed together while four cycle cranks are usually machined from one piece?    

         My Harley 1200 cc (4 cycle)  has a pressed together crankshaft

royster wrote:
Do you know why?

I agree with jrtrebor - the Cr20 is one of the best old 2 stroke toros.  The video posted there is mine.

The powerlite is OK but I like the CR20 much better :-)

borat wrote:

A Harley engine is quite unique , in that the crankshaft consists of basically 2 flywheels with one main bearing sandwiched betweem them., onto which both connecting rods are attached , The  distance  of the main bearing  from the center of the flywheel  determines the length of the stroke, Therefore the crank is made in 3 pieces and pressed together ..  The Harley V-Rod   has the same arrangement but the crank is a one piece forged unit.

royster wrote:
Does it have a single piece roller bearing for the big ends?  Can the connecting rods be removed without taking the crank apart?

superbuick wrote:
Not disagreeing with you guys, but trying to see how the CR20 is better.  Both Powerlite and CR20 has the same size engine, curved auger.  The CR20 is 20" wide, versus 16" for the Powerlite.  Seems like the Powerlite should throw snow further with the chute, and the CR is much better only with slush due to the vane discharge.  Is that it?

Someone is listing a CR20 on CL for $250.  Seems a bit high for a 20+ year old snowblower.

royster wrote:
I don't know how this thread started with 2 cycle snowblower and got into a 4-cycle motorcycle.  

aa335 wrote:
Something to do with pressed cranks. 

Maybe Harley should look at converting their twins to two cycle engines.   If they get it right, they might begin to make something with some horsepower.  I can only imagine the tone of a 1400+ cc, lumpy two cycle.  Hey!  HD guys buy the bikes for their sound, they might just like the new flavour!

I thought they bought HD because the ladies like the vibrations. 

aa335 wrote:
Yeah....

A 20K vibrator posing as  a motorcycle.

Some guys will do anything to get a girl or reasonable facsimile thereof.  I've seen more than a few "modified dogs" riding on the back of a Harley.

Some guy was selling a 2009 Toro 221R for $300.  It was in a tough shape with a bit of rust.  Although the owner did not take care of it too well, there should not be too much rust only after two winters.  I am just wonder if Toro is using cheap materials on their SS machines.  It started okay but I do not like the sound of it and I could get my neighbors really pissed off blowing snow at 4AM.  The engine did not sound all that smooth or great either - in short I have no desire for a 2-stroke snowblower. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Yeah......

Thanks for sharing that with us.

MN_Runner wrote:
Are you still in the market for a SS?  I rather buy new than buy a used and abused one. 

Whatever you choose, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, no neighbors are going to be happy hearing any gas powered snowblower running at 4 AM.  I bet your HS928 is quiet than most SS. The shovel is quietest anytime of the day.

The Toro 421 / 621 has been the quietest SS of the bunch, even quieter than the HS621.  The HS520 is rowdy and as loud as a 221Q.  If any of these are still objectionable, you can use ear plugs.

No market for SS as I just upgraded my MTB.  I just don't want to drive to Winnepeg and pay $1300 plus duty tax on the return.  The main issue is that I think I cannot handle buying used items regardless how good the deals are.  Perhaps this is a character flaw.  I may need a used body part from a cadaver or from a doner who got stuck in his snoblower auger.  My  brother-in-law's Honda HS520 looks still new when he bought in 2007.  I was just shocked how badly the 2009 Toro 221R looked so just wondering if Toro is using cheapter materials on their SS machines. It would be interesting to see how your 421QE looks/functions after a few more winters and my guess is that it will look/perform worse than your Honda HS621. 

Pretty much all of the domestic manufacturers have compromised build quality including Toro to improve the bottom line.  Problem is that with Toro's arrogance, they continue to charge top dollar for machines that no longer carry the same level of quality that their old products had.  So you still pay the big bucks and get less for it.  I bought my 221QE for $599.00 which was $200.00 less than the regular price at HD and $400.00 less than at the local Toro gouger.   At the price I paid, the Toro was a reasonable deal.  There's no way I'd pay the higher prices. 

Nonetheless, the Toro 221QE is still a decent machine and build quality is actually pretty good.  I have two other SS machines and neither are near the quality of the Toro.  Can't say for sure what their new price would have been.  However, I'm certain that it would be a hundred or two less than what I paid for the 221. 

Sounds like the Toro you looked at was pretty much flogged.  Chances are, despite it's cosmetic appearance, if it was in good mechanical condition, it would work well for you for many years to come.      

Funny part is that the Toro 221R looked like it was 5-6 years old and not two year as the seller insisted.  I saw HS621 for sale today and it was in a sad shape.  Blue smoke and rusted out auger but the seller wanted $300.  He must been following Abbysguide on HS621.

I don't expect the Toro to hold up better over the years, nor do I think it will fall apart that easily.  But the good thing is that replacement parts are cheaper and readily available.  Any machine that's abused with scratches and dent not taken care of will rust eventually.  Side plates, auger housing, and auger are typically seeing all the beating.  There's no reason to doubt it wouldn't last at least 20 years if cared for.  These are pretty simple machines and can be worked on easily.

Toro may come up with a new model to beat the rest of the copy cats in the next few years, without resorting to using larger engines.  SS just gets heavier and less maneuverable with bigger engines.  So if Toro can ressurect a 2 stroke engine with low emissions, tidy up the bloated styling, I might be getting a new model at that time.

aa335 wrote:

Toro may come up with a new model to beat the rest of the copy cats in the next few years, without resorting to using larger engines.  SS just gets heavier and less maneuverable with bigger engines.  So if Toro can ressurect a 2 stroke engine with low emissions, tidy up the bloated styling, I might be getting a new model at that time.

That bloated look is one reason why I like the HS621 so much - that and the GX engine. The HS621 is very sleek looking but very robust without looking bulky. Even the HS520 is on the bulky side compared to the HS621.

Guys, guys, guys......

We're talking about machines designed to move snow.  Not a beauty contest.  The only thing that should matter is how good a job it does, how easily/efficiently it does it and how reliable it is.  After all, that's what's important. Right?   I look at how well the machine is designed for functionality, build quality, and ease of maintenance.  Nothing else really matters. 

Would any of you "fashion designer types" buy an  inferior machine just because it "looks better"?   That should give you an idea of how important styling is when it comes to OPE. 

borat wrote:
Well it kind of comes down to whether you'd rather go to bed with the aesthetically challenged girl or the hot cheerleader....both will get the job done but one will be a bit more palatable.

OPE guys, OPE. 

borat wrote:
I hear you, but I do agree with FrankMA.  Beef is just beef, but fillet mignon is much better than hamburger meat.

MN_Runner wrote:
After a while looking at CL, you can figure out which sellers are flippers and who sells their own stuff.  Flippers usually request for phone numbers and won't respond to inquiries without it.  I typically don't chase flipper ads, their prices are usually too high for what it is.

aa335 wrote:
You are correct.  There are a lot of snowblower flippers especially on CL.  The Toro 221R was leaking gas really bad but the seller told me it is normal and nothing to worry about.  Then insisted that the auger rubbers and scraper bar were in top shape when they were worn out.  The guy who is selling his 928TA for $2000 must be very desperate for money as I would have hard time selling my 928WAS for that low.  I hope I can give it to one of my kids when I am at a nursing home thiking about blowing snow and waiting for trouts to find me a nice burial site.

Go with your instinct, if you feel something is wrong, give it a pass.  Unless you can fix it without much trouble or cost.  Depends on your comfort level.  I personally wouldn't want a complete tear down machine, nothing more than 3 or 4 hours.  I got other things around to the house to take care of so that takes precendence.

If you're going to get a Toro 221, might as well go with a QR version.   Usually, there are people moving south so they will sell off their snowblower.  I bought an HS520 from an old couple moving to Florida, there are the usual rust spots, but everything else was mechanically sound.  No dented buckets, twisted auger, ect..

I also got the 2 stroke ss bug last year & started keeping an eye open on kijiji. Wanted something like Borat to be at hand to clean off the 16 x 24 rear deck for the dogs to do their business and to do the steps & walkway leading up from the drive to the front door. Wanted something light with handles in the right place so it could be used like a shovel.
Came across a Homelite 4/20 that seems to fit the bill for $20 in the middle of the summer. For that price I could at least have some fun. The paddles are pretty warn & it wouldn't start so I ordered a carb kit. Plan to do the carb next week so I'll let you know how it goes.

I was looking into those Homelite/Jacobsen 320 /420 models too.  I remember seeing those things in my uncle's garage while I was a kid.   They were very loud and smoky, or at least it seemed like it cause my hearing and smell senses were a lot more sensitive when younger.  :) 

Jacobsen has the 320 model which has the Snow Burst feature that is kinda of interesting.  It increases the RPM when additional load is put on the engine.  Not sure if is the same implementation as a governor on today's engines.  Anybody know anything about the Snow Burst?

Might go with a Toro S620, CR20, or a Toro Powerlite.  I do like how well built those S620 / CR20 are.  That will be another vintage 2 stroke / 2 smoker added to the neighborhood.  More noise and smoke in this restrictive neighborhood.  I can see property values plummetting. 

aa335 wrote: My dad had a Jacobsen sno burst when I was a kid. I dont know how it worked but it was a manual system. It was  like a ring on the dash that you pulled out and it reved up quite a bit. Stayed reved up til you pushed it back in. Guess it was for deeper snow when you needed it. Think it said in the manual it was a 1/2 hp more. When i used it I kept the ring pulled out all the time. Seemed to work OK at the time when most people in the area had paddle blowers also.

I finally found a cheap 4 or 5 year old Toro Powerlite today, less than $50, which was what I wanted to pay.  The owner said it would not start this winter.  Starter rope doesn't recoil all the way, there's about 12 inches of hanging out.  Tried pulling the starter rope, the piston moves up and down, so no sign of it being straight gassed. Without opening up the covers, the machine overall seems to be in good mechanical shape.  Rubber auger and scraper bar still useable.  She's not a beauty, but not kicked and abused.  Anyway, I got myself a little project machine to work on.  I might replace all rusted / corroded screws and bolts and restore it excellent or almost new condition, maybe a piant job.  I probably put in about $100 in parts.  Anyways, I can always flip this machine later on CL if I get bored of it, maybe get a Toro CR20 to play around with.

I will poke around cleaning the carb to see if it at least tried to run.  Any tips on taking care of the starter rope?  Any ideas on what engine model are on these Powerlites?

Sounds like a broken or jammed spring.  First thing I'd try is spraying the spring with WD-40 or similar fluid to see if that frees up the spring.   If the spring is broken, you'll have to pull the assembly off to inspect it.  Often, the spring breaks at the bend/notch that secures it to the center of the recoil.  I've had pretty good success just heating the spring end until it's red hot and putting a new bend in it.  If it also needs to be notched, a small grinding bit and a Dremmel tool will work well.

Edit:

This might be of some use to you:    http://redhouseon7th.com/redhouse/howto/2008ToroPullCord/index.html

     It probably has a HSK600.   It would be good to review the machine before you do the pull start as it's a hassle to fix.  Plan any fixes or mods you want to do while you're in there.  You won't want to go back in again.   

     Tough machine to work on.  For a cowling removal it's easier to take the engine out than remove it in place. 
 
     BUT...once they go they stay going.  They're a great machine.  It will toss good condition snow 25 feet and average 15-20 - - not guessing I measured it.  You can tweak the governor spring post for 4500-5000 and see what you think.   It takes a bit to get used to it but as Borat says it sounds like a fast idle.   That is a very appropriate description.  I started my machine the other day and that is exactly what I thought.  That the thing was just getting warmed up and should have a throttle to get to speed.

I found a reference to it having a 98cc Tecumseh 2-stroke, so the HSK600 sounds like a very good guess (those are the specs of mine). Like borat said, spraying a bit of something on the recoil spring would be worth a shot. Perhaps silicone, if you wanted to reduce the risk of attracting dirt. Make sure you don't accidentally lube the belt If the spring is just weak, or slipped somehow, you can turn the cord hub some more, to increase the preload on the spring, then wind the cord around it.

This has a much higher "specific power" than my Ariens. Both have the same 3hp engine, but yours is 16", and Ariens swung for the fences and made mine 22". Yours ought to do a lot better with full passes in deep/heavy stuff.

If you do a compression check on it, I'd be curious what you get. I got 90 psi on my engine. But it apparently has a compression release, which would lower the result somewhat.

You put $100 in parts into it already today? Wow, you're quick. Ramping up the RPMs would be worth looking into, power/weight would get even better. Nice find!

@aa335, wish you the best luck and a lot of fun making it new again.  I am sure you will make it very good just like your HS621.  I am just waiting for the dealer go $400 even on the 221Q.  I just have to wait a month then I think I have a good shot at the price.

Thanks all for the tips.  I found this Powerlite is a 2007 model,  with a Tecumseh HSK635 - 1723C engine.  Looks like the scraper bar and rubber paddles will have to be replaced.  It can probably go another winter season but since I'm working on it, might as well replace them.  I'll get a new belt and spark plug as well.  There are nuts and screws here and there that are corroded, I'll break those lose and replace them.  Not fond of Toro's choice of fasteners hardware, seems to rust too easily.  I haven't bought any parts yet, but should be able to get it back in top shape for less than $60 estimated, maybe a little more if I'm picky.

No plans to modify it yet, although bumping the RPM is fairly easy to do.  I was surprised to find out that the engine is part of the structural frame.  The lower handle is the frame!    Not sure how well the engine and the frame will handle the extra power.    I was so used to seeing how well built the Honda HS621 is and this Powerlite was an eye opener. 

It was late tonight so I didn't feel like doing any work on the carburetor.  I was just looking around and see which parts needs to be replaced and which needs some paint touch up.  The Powerlite is very simple in design, extremely compact and so lighweight.  I was able to easily lift it and fiit it in the back seat of my car.  This is a perfect machine to leave on your wooden deck, especially if you have a few stairs. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Yes, this machine is about 4 years old and has one owner with the typical homeowner use, so it's not too beat up.  Everything looks original so the wear items like rubber paddles and scraper bars are at their service limit and need to be replaced.  It's a fairly inexpensive machine for me to play with. 

Anyways, good luck on getting the 221Q with the price you're waiting for.  Don't wait too long, there aren't many new ones sitting around.  I'm sure you rather get something brand new to you for a few bucks more. 

RedOctobyr wrote:

The Powerlite has good power to its size.  Also the rotating mass of the auger assembly is very low, so it's very efficient.

I did looked into getting the Ariens SS a few years ago, I think the Simplicity was very similar, with the fancy molded auger.  I don't think Ariens or Simplicity makes these snowblowers, they are probably made by someone else because mechanically, they were very similar.  The machines were very well built, nice solid handles.  The molded auger kinda of turned me off due to cost of replacement and heavy mass that didn't have powerful engine to drive it. 

I haven't bought any parts yet, just estimating that will need to spend about $60.  I have no tools to do compression check on the engine so I'll just get it running and that will be it.  The snowblower is only 4 years old with light duty homeowner use so I'm fairly sure it's still has good compression.

Does that machine have an auger engagement lever or does it turn as soon as the engine is fired up?

Five years old is pretty fresh provided it wasn't straight gassed.  As long as it was properly lubed, the engine should be fine.  The old 1997 Craftsman I bought used had around 120 psi.  That's pretty much factory spec.  Pretty good for a fifteen year old machine. 

Don't be afraid to mix a bit more oil than what the manual specifies.   Especially if you crank it up a bit.   I run most of my premix around 35:1 to 40:1.  Never had a problem yet.  Not even a fouled plug.

Did you inspect/fix the recoil yet?  I'm interested to know what the cause of the problem is/was.  

borat wrote:
The Powerlite doesn't have auger engagement bail.  There's a belt tensioner that is always spring loaded so the auger spins when I pull the starter cord.  I can't tell the health the engine by pull start, there's an automatic decompression to make it easy to turn over. 
I don't have tools to measure compression.  Is there any tell tale signs like excessive smoke?  At least the engine is not locked up from being straight gassed.  I think the engine should be very fresh.  Like I said before, one owner, light residential duty, single car wide driveway, not very big area to clear.

I haven't open up the recoil assembly to determine what's wrong.   I am planning to buy a new cord and put it in while I have it apart.  The weather has been fairly warm so I'm enjoying the weather outdoors with the kids so I've been a little lazy in any mechanical work at night.  :)

If I experiment running higher RPMS, I will definitely use more oil than recommended.  From my days of RC nitro metthane car engines, I tend to run the engine a little rich just to get a little safety margin.  I don't have much time these days for those tempermental high output RC engines.  I spend more time cleaning them than running them.  :)

aa335 wrote:
Heh, well put. "the fancy molded auger" is a pretty good way to describe it. It is certainly expensive to replace, which is unfortunate. The machine was sold under at least 1 other brand name, there were green ones sold as Lesco, which were covered in the SS322 recall. They might have been sold under another brand as well, of course, which simply wasn't covered by this recall.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml00/00059.html

I don't think a worn 2-stroke should smoke any more. A worn 4-stroke smokes because the oil in the crankcase is getting past the worn out piston rings, making the engine smoke. In a 2-stroke, the only oil is already in the gas, so I don't think that a worn engine would smoke differently. It would still be down on power, of course. The simple & fairly easy way I know to check a 2-stroke's condition is to pull off the muffler, and look at the side of the piston and the cylinder. You should not see vertical scratches/gouges, it should still show a smooth crosshatched pattern.

borat, good point about the oil ratio. I just mixed up a fresh gallon with Stihl Ultra at the suggested 50:1. I should have used a bit less gas and gone for, say, 40:1, especially for higher RPM's. Unfortunately, I have the little 1-gallon-mix bottles, so I can't easily add more after the fact. I do run my old Stihl 032AV chainsaw a little rich, to be safe. The magic of adjustable carbs! My saw is 51cc, and revs to 13,000 RPM, but of course the piston and things still weigh quite a bit less than those in my 98cc snowblower engine, so that helps keep the loads under control. Plus, of course, it was designed for 13,000, and I'm not ramping it up to 18,000 :)

aa335, sorry to go on a slight tangent, but you caught my eye with the RC nitro engines comment. About 10 years ago I bought an RC nitro-powered Team Associated RC10GT stadium truck. Had a .12 in^3 OS engine, I eventually upgraded it to a .12 Mugen engine, which added a bunch more power. That thing was a ton of fun. I haven't run it in about 5 years, unfortunately. Those engines do make a mess of the car :) About a year ago I got into RC electric helicopters, they're a blast. Started with a coaxial toy, then got Blade mSR fixed-pitch, then a Blade mCP X collective pitch. The mCP X will do flips, loops, flies upside down, etc. And it's only about 10" long or so, not counting the main rotors. I'm working on hovering inverted in different orientations. I upgraded the stock brushed motor to a brushless setup, it raised the main rotors RPM from about 3800 to almost 6000. It's kind of a little beast now, and has the power to try a lot more aggressive stuff. Sorry, my apologies for going OT.

RedOctobyr wrote: RedOctobyr,

Those molded augers were supposed to have free lifetime replacement policy, to the original owner.  I don't see that policy holding up when the machine is discontinued.  Too bad though, it's a solidly designed machine with lots of potential, if they put a decent high output engine into it.  I don't see how a tiny HSK600 98cc engine should be strapped to a 22" wide auger, a heavy auger.


That's okay to be OT, there's not much snow to stay on track anyways.

I used to have Mugen MBX4, T-Maxx, Revo, HPI Savage, and HPI electric touring cars.  My favorite was the MBX4 buggy, 60 mph rocket, keeps going tank after tank, burned the clutch a couple of times.  I run it continuously without shutting down between refueling.    I've given up on gas powered RC, too much cleaning and maintenance, especially on the sub .15 engines or 1/10 scale RC.  I've already have enough trouble keeping RX and TX batteries charged.  I think I spent more $$$ on RC than my OPE equipment.  If I get back into RC, I'd going all electric (lipo and brushless), switching battery packs is easy.  NO oil mess to clean up, no more expensive denatured alcohol, no tweaking the hi / low screws to get it running right.  Those new 2.4 gHZ DSS  bind-n-drive radios are nice.  Plus I want to enjoy running RC with my kids, not spend too much time working on them.

I dabbled with the RC helis, started out with a coaxial Blade CX2 and now 120 SR.  Flew it in the house a couple of times the last couple of years.    Nice and cheap to get started into RC heli without the fear factor, but seems to be too fragile.  When my skills improve, I might look into something faster and more durable.

I finally took some time to take a look at this Powerlite tonight.  The recoil rope was hanging out 12 inches so I was able to wind up the pulley 2 more turns to take up the slack.  There was some crack on the starter pulley but it will hold up so I can try to start the engine.  I took off the carb bowl, everything looks clean.  Gave the pull start a yank, the engine starts up on the second pull.  That was good news.  Then I noticed that some dark fluid like oil was dripping out of the spark plug, so I immediately shut down the engine.  The spark plug was not even tightened.  So I removed and checked the plug, it was dark brown, not sure how long the previous owner had been running with the plug loose.  Anyways, I added more fresh gas and restarted it, this time letting it run a little longer.  Everything seems to be running fine.

I'm not going to sink too much time or money into this machine.  I'll just get a new belt, rubber augers, scraper bar, and a spark plug.  Just the essentials so it operates in peak form, so no restoration to near showroom condition.  I'll restore a BMW 2002, but not a Toyota Tercel.    There's just nothing about this machine that excites me other than the tiny Tecumseh 2 stroke engine, everything else is just low rent materials and build quality.  It's a fun and easy machine to work on, but I got a little annoyed of all the pesky rusted fasteners.

I'll keep this machine around to play with increasing  the RPM and see how it performs.  It's a lightweight machine so I'm not sure it throw snow further or cut through EOD a bit better, or just bounce around.

   A bit off topic but you guys mentioning the RC stuff made me curious about some of the terms.  Googling arond go me to UTube and I came across RC jet powered planes.  Never knew there was such a thing as micro jet engines complete with pre-ignition starters.  The first one I tripped on was a RC of a SR71 Blackbird and amazing. 

trouts2 wrote:
There's some crazy RC stuff, like a large scale B-52 bomber with multiple jet engines on the wings.  It takes two guys to fly these things.   That's some serious hobby.  It makes Honda $8000 snowblower looks pale by comparison.