Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

One guy from MSP area is selling his 15 year old HS621 (the guy from Wayzata MN who hates HomeDepot and GC engines) for $450.  Another one is selling his one year old HS520 for $400 with one year remaining on the warranty.  HS621 is a nice machine but is it really worth more than nearly new HS520?  Replacement parts for HS520 is about 50% of the cost of HS621. What do I recommend for a friend?  I think the HS621 from that guy is simply way too high (if it were as good as aa335 then it is a different story).  HS520 seems like an economical option.  What do you guys think?

I would not buy from that greedy guy.

You buy what is right for you. Obviously there are sellers out there that have NO idea of what things are worth. Some just want them gone, Others think they have gold. I have found that when both selling & buying timing is everything. Want top dollar for a machine, wait for an approaching storm. Want to buy cheap, buy in the spring or when there are a ton of machines for sale.

I would go for the HS520.  If need be, put in $60 worth of parts like scraper and rubber auger and it's practically a new machine for a total of $460.  If the HS520 was abused with dented side panels and rusted bottom, then no, I would never buy abused or commercially used equipment.

If you are recommending a snowblower for someone to use as their main snowblower, I would go with the newer models with cheaper and readily available consumable parts, and with dealers who can service them.  This is why Toro's are in such high demand.  You can get parts for these anywhere.

I dont think either ones a good deal. I'm with greg if you want to buy used cant wait til near snow season. Last spring I got a near mint 621 for $220. This fall sprung for the new paddles and scraper to break it up a bit

SB prices are regional, just like labor, cost of living, 450K can buy you a single bedroom apartment or a 4 Bedroom, 2 Bay Garage...
$450+ is the average rate of a good 621 that will not require parts in this part of town.

Tough call. Parts aside, having used both, I have used the 621 in snow conditions in which the 621 never stalled out on me but the 520 has.
Will it be a supplement to a 2 stager or not...

mobiledynamics wrote:

Which part of the region do you live?

I used an HS520 last winter and did not care for it. I picked up a decent used HS621 at the end of last winter but never really got to use it yet. The HS621 has the same GX160 engine that was on my old HS624 2 stage and that was a great snowblower. I think the HS621 will  perform much better than the HS520 with the GC engine. If the machine was cared for and maintained properly it should be fine.

I just sold an hs 520 recoil start that was six years old for 275.00 It was in nice shape and didn't need anything. I also have a bigger two stage track machine that wasn't getting used much so I decided to just use that instead. If this 520 looks good I would say buy it as they are 629.00 new up here plus tax.

mobiledynamics wrote:

Having owned both at one time, I experienced the same thing.  I don't know why the GX160 engine is that much more gutsy, its the same displacement as the GC160.  Besides the cast iron liner versus aluminum bore, what else can it be that makes more power?

I thought they were identical but there are some subtle differences between GC160 vs. GX160.  GC has slightly longer stroke and smaller bore compared to GX.  GX is 163cc vs. 160cc and hp and torque are slightly higher for GX - perhaps just enough to make the difference.   The GX160 on the HS621 appears be the low profile kind of GX160 variations.

Generally speaking torque and power of push-rod ohv engines is a bit better at lower rpms vs. an ohc engine of the same displacement.  I've read that more than a few times.  Something to do with valve angle and efficiency at lower engine speeds. 

Ohc engines are capable of much higher rpm and that's where the configuration shines.  At higher engine speeds ohc engines will run more efficiently and make more power because there is no "valve float" that can be experienced with a push rod engine being run a too high rpms. 

Bottom line is that using ohc engines for OPE isn't the best application for that type of engine.  Put the same or similar ohc engine in a small displacement motorcycle and spin it up to eight or nine thousand rpm and it will be right at home.  In that application it will make considerably more power and live longer than a push rod engine of similar size.  It's all about the rpm range.  

borat wrote:

So, Borat, if we stabilize the the RPM on an OHC engine at 7-8000 we would have a more powerful engine than GX160?

blumonster wrote:

If it does not blow up first and throws the piston out.  Borat likes to rev it very high.

:D I remember you tried increasing the RPM on HS35 and it sounded not that great. :D

you are correct but i did not go past 4000rpm. i don't have the guts to try 8000 rpm. 

blumonster wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "stabilize".  OHC engines are designed to run considerably higher rpms that a similar push rod engine.

As compared to the same displacement GX engine running at 3600 rpm, it most certainly will make more power.  For how long is another question....

The problem with running it at higher rpms on a piece of OPE is cooling.  On a small motorcycle, the engine will be whistling through the air a 50 to 60 mph at full rpm and exhaust gas heat will be dissipated through a much less restrictive/larger exhaust system. In addition, engine oil cooling will be somewhat assisted by being circulated through the transmission/crank case.  Higher rpm engines usually have a larger carburetor and air intake system that moves more cool air and fuel through the engine as well.  Those variations are essential for cooling high rpm engines. 

Trying to run a stationary engine at such high speeds would be hazardous to the engine's health even with a very good fan.  It would be dicey if run too long.  I suppose if the engine has a pressurized oil system, an oil cooler could be added to help keep temperatures down but overall, don't think OPE applications are suitable for high rpm operations unless the engine is specifically designed for it, as in four cycle trimmers etc. 

Regardless, if the small engine is mounted on a snow blower for instance and run at 7000-8000 rpm, some serious gearing would be required.  In addition to that, I think the sound of a screaming engine might become a bit objectionable after a while. 

I had the GX160 running past 4000 RPM and it did not seem right.  There was a lot of vibrations and noise.   I don't think the engine will last long running like that.   The engine was more comfortable lugging high load at low RPMs.

aa335 wrote:
A GC with overhead cam will tolerate revs much better than a push rod GX.  However, if the engine is designed to run at 3600 rpm I wouldn't be pushing it much past that unless of course it's a two cycle.  Those things love to rev. 

Another  thing to consider is where the maximum torque is achieved.  On most OPE engines it's around 3000 rpm.  Same size engine on a small motorcycle will probably be a thousand or more rpm higher.

I checked the performance curves for torque and HP.  Max torque tapers off after 2500 RPM.  HP is still increasing after 3600 RPM but not provided.

I guess going higher RPM would be useful if I regear the auger ratio.  Making it spin faster isn't going to do much if it can't be fed enough snow.  Besides, I don't have a need for a single stage snowblower to throw heavy snow more than 25 feet.  As long as it can throw it across a wide car wide driveway consistently, I'm happy.

Thank you for the explanation, Borat. I learned a few things about engines here.

By stablizing I meant keeping the RPM at these high points, not letting it to go lower than, say, 7000RPM.But as you said we would need cooling system first.

Just to get back on the OP's original query, I just picked up my 2nd HS621 yesterday. I was tooling around on CL and saw an older ad for a "good condition" HS621. I called the guy and he told me it was his father's machine and was well taken care of over its lifetime and it looked it in the photos. Long story short, I went and looked at it and sure enough it was in exceptional condition so I bought it for $400.00. I'm going to sell the HS520 and the HS621 I picked up last spring to offset the cost of my new purchase.

I swapped out the new paddles and scrapper bar I just put on the 1st HS621 to the 2nd keeper HS621 so I'm good to go for the winter. The paddles and scrapper bar from the 2nd HS621 were not too bad so I put them on the 1st HS621. #2 is actually older than #1 but it's in much better condition and was well maintained during its lifetime, it even sounds a lot smoother than #1 does.

As far as the prices for HS520's and HS621's goes, those seem to be the going rate on CL around these parts (New England) this season. I only paid $125.00 for the 1st HS621 I bought last spring and $ 250.00 for the HS520 two years ago so I should be well ahead of the game when it's all said and done (hopefully). Once again, I do not like the performance of the HS520 so I have to lean towards the HS621 even though I have not had a chance to put one through its paces yet. I can only imagine that the GX160 OHV on the HS621, which was on my trusty old HS624WA 2 stage, will out perform the GC160 OHC on the HS520. I'd go for the older HS621 if it is in good condition and has been well maintained. JMHO

@FrankMA,

Do you have any idea on how old the second HS621 that you just bought?  Any pictures of the new acquisition?

aa335: The 1st HS621 I bought last spring is S/N # SZAN-1026712, the most recent HS621 purchase is SZAN-1015460. This means my "newsest" HS621 is 11,252 machines older than the first HS621 I purchased last spring. I've got both out on my deck right now and will take pictures of both sometime tomorrow. I just really like the look of the HS621 (sleek and up to the task) and feel the GX160 OHV engine will perform great with this package. The older I get, the more I want to use a lighter, easier to handle machine for the lighter snowfall amounts we typically get in early and late winter when a single stage is better suited to the task at hand. Will post fresh pic's tomorrow providing I can remember how to do so...

Mine is even older with SZAN1006... serial number.

blumonster: You've got one that belongs in the Smithsonian Institute!!! I wish there was a way to determine the build date from the s/n number just so you'd know the age of each machine.

Raining here today so I had to put my toys in the shed this morning but will be taking pic's this weekend as I need to post my old HS621 and HS520 on CL. Temps have been on the very warm side around here (50's & 60's!) so most folks are not thinking snow removal yet. The local CL for Eastern MA/Southern NH is full of decent sounding machines these days. Many are rotating around from week to week as I don't think many are being sold because of the warm temps and nice weather. I've seen a few at decent prices staying on for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. We need a good snow storm to kick things up a notch or two!

FrankMA wrote:

Snowstonian Institute! :D Not the first 1006th machine ever made though. It starts with 1006 and a few more digits after that.Mine is the first 6324th Honda HS621 to be precise.

I am looking forward to seeing your HS621's pictures, FrankMA.Here it is not warm but so far thankfully no snow on the ground.I want to try mine but I am sure there will be many many days with snowstorms here.Just not yet.

I keep looking for some unclear reason at craigslist for Honda snowblowers, both for SS and 5 stage.Prices are not that high here either for the same reason.And they are not selling.I saw a couple of HS80 ads.One of them was being sold for 325 dollars.An old machine but in decent condition.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/2680581149.html These Yamahas are still in the market.Two of them for $650.One needs carb cleaning, seller says.

FrankMA wrote:
My HS621 S/N is SZAN-10356xx.  It was bought in 1998, but not sure of the production date, maybe 1997. 

I really like the look too.  It is sleek, Honda managed to wrap up the engine completely inside the housing with nothing sticking out and not looking bloated like the Toro 621, or sloppy looking like the B&S variants of the Simplicity / Snapper / Ariens 208cc single stage snowblowers. 

While I was swapping out the paddles on the "new" HS621 I scored this past Sunday, I noticed that the chute could only rotate about 160* right to left. I thought this was a bit odd especially considering that the HS621 I picked up last spring could rotate almost all the way around. I removed the chute and after comparing both machines, I realized that the stationary chute base that is attached to the paddle housing was mounted 180* opposite on each machine. I removed the 4 mounting screws and rotated the chute base on my latest score 180* to mimic the one on the older HS621 and that did the trick. I now have close to 360* of chute rotation on the latest HS621 I just acquired.

Just curious if this limited degree of chute rotation was a built in design by Honda or if someone had removed the chute base and reinstalled it incorrectly. I could almost see this intentional limitation being applied to some of the machines sold overseas as they appear to have some serious over-built safety features that are borderline ridiculous. I suppose if you were stupid enough to point the chute towards your face or body and got whacked with snow, you deserve what you got and would hopefully never make the same stupid mistake again! I guess the problem these days is the lawyers are running just about everything and downright stupidity & what you get as a result of it, is a good enough reason to sue the sh!t out of a company.

I often wonder whatever happened to personal responsibility...

Some people give up their personal responsibility in exchange for monetary gains.  Very similar to selling your soul to the devil.

Sorry so gloom attitude today.  It's been raining the last 3 days.

Raining here in New England as well. Might get a little a snow though, so something to look forward to!!! Maybe get to use the toys...

I'm in Boston at the moment.  This is a lot of rain.  Would be a big snowfall of all this rain was snow.

Should have looked me up - I'm about 30 miles north of Boston along the New Hampshire border.

So where is the party?  aa335 HS621 vs. Frank_MA HS621?  or blumonster HS621 vs. aa335 and Frank_MA?

MN_Runner wrote:
Heh.  No party.  It's raining a lot here, no snow to blow.  I'm on business trip in Boston for a few days and don't feel like getting out of this city.  Sushi bar and a cold Harpoon near Copley Place, it's all good.

Hopefully I can meet one of you guys when I either run Boston Marathon or Chicago Marathon.  Boston is just too hard to train in MN because of the weather.  I broke my ankle in 2009 the day after Christmas slipping on ice so 2010 run was out.   Chicago is better but it is always a week after the Twin Cities marathon so it is a tough call.  Enjoy the sushi and lobsters and of course, good ale.

MN_Runner wrote:
No snow, only rain... Still not cold either and it looks like mild weather for the next week or so.

aa335 wrote: Heres what I found for production dates for U. S. market  HS621. Pull start models
1992   Ser #  1000001-1038238      
1993   Ser #  1038239-1099999
1994   Ser #  1100001-1129999
1995   Ser #  1130001-1130378
1996   Ser #  1130379- not many but some are listed as 96's

That doesn't seem right.  I have one with S/N beginning with 10356xx which I bought in 1998.  It seems unlikely a 1992 production unit sat around 6 years until it is sold.

Here's some photos of the single stage herd. The HS621 I got last spring and the HS520 are going on CL shortly. The keeper HS621 is the one in the middle.

Here's the HS621 I'll be selling off.

Here's the HS520 I've been disappointed with.

Here's a few of the keeper HS621.

Did you swap all the good parts to the keeper HS621? 

aa335 wrote:
Of course! I had just replaced the paddles and scrapper on the old one so I swapped those out first. The ones that were on the keeper were not bad and still had plenty of meat left on them and the scrapper bar was good as well. Both the HS621 & HS520 are in good shape and run well. The keeper HS621 is just in much better condition than the other one as it was a one owner machine and was well cared for and maintained.

Yeah, yeah, nice machines......

WTF is all that wood about?  You selling it?   That's quite a supply. 

You do your own splitting?  If so, what do you use? 

borat wrote:
I heat my home with wood (close to 100% of the time). It's about 50/50 between buying cut/split/delivered and doing it on my own.  I use a Fiskars X series splitting axe which is really nice and does a great job - best splitting axe I ever used. I've thought about getting grapple loads of wood but barely have enough time to process what I have already. I go through about 4+ cord per winter -  I have over 7 cord racked for this winter and some for next. It never ends...

That's quite a supply. 

We have a couple zero clearance wood fireplaces in our home that we use primarily for ambiance or emergency heat.

We also heat our cottage with wood and put up maybe a cord or two a year.  Don't go out much in the winter anymore so, don't use as much as we used to.  I generally cut and split my own.  I used a splitting maul for 30 years but some of the wood was murder to split by hand. 

Most of the wood I get is blow down so I have no control over the size of the trees.  I've had trees over 30" across and knotty as hell.  Wicked stuff to split by hand.  Earlier this year we had a wind event that knocked down some nice aspen trees approx. 16" to 18" in diameter.   So I bucked up a few trailer loads.  Splitting wet poplar that size in summer by hand is almost futile.  The axe literally bounces out of the wood and sometimes water spurts out of it.  Dried poplar is just as bad but opposite.  The wood is very reluctant to split and the axe gets stuck in the piece.  I had a stack of large dried stuff from last year that I just gave up on and with the new supply, I decided it was time to get a log splitter so I picked up a used one in excellent shape for a very good price.  It's a gas powered 24 ton North Star.  I split all of that difficult wood in an hour or less then split a bunch for my neighbour.  

When I think of all the time I spent flogging myself senseless splitting difficult wood, I have to wonder what I was thinking when a log splitter would cut my labour by 90%.  It's so easy that I actually look forward to splitting wood!   Even the wife gets in on the act.  I do the loading, she works the splitter.  The benefits aren't just split wood.  I don't spend the whole day swinging an eight pound maul so I can spend more time fishing/hunting/relaxing and I don't wake up the next day feeling like I spent the night tumbling in a cement mixer.     

I prefer to buy c/s/d (if the price is right) but sometimes I'll buy a truckload of 16" - 18" long rounds and split them. I live in a remote area where there is no natural gas lines so your choices for heat are (for the most part) oil, propane or wood. I have oil which is currently running about $3:50 or so per gallon. Before I got my wood stove, I would use on average about 800 - 1000 gallons/year - my water is heated via the oil burner so it fires all year long. You can see how it adds up pretty quickly. I can heat my house with wood for about $600 - $800 vs. $2800 - $3500 for oil so it's definitely worth my time and effort.

MN_Runner wrote:

Hi MN_Runner,

Got half an inch of snow on the day after I came back to the US but that was not enough to pull the snow blower out.

If we get snow I will take pictures and post.

We got about 2" of wet snow on the eve of Dec 31.  I blew the snow with my 928 because it was too wet and I did not want to shovel it.  This Monday I helped a family friend buy a brand new Honda HS520.  She really liked the size and how simple it was to use.  I told her if she ever thought the HS520 is too small, I was willing to trade my 928 for her 520+cash.  I still think having two blowers are the best option.  2" wet snow would have been perfect for a SS machine. 

We got approximately 5 inches of snow 2 days ago.Finally I was able to use my HS35 snowblower.

It met my expectations.I forgot changing the angle on the shoot, that threw some snow at our neighbor's fenced-in yard and also on the walls of our house. I think the height it threw snow was about 12 ft.

However HS621 did not throw much snow.Probably/hopefully because of worn-out paddles.

Never had the choice. I bought a used HS621 which will only run with choke almost full, then it just stalled today under a little snow load here in Detroit. Anybody know where to get a cheap knockoff carb for this machine? Also, to pull the carb, do I have to take the shroud/engine cover off the top? If so, any tips on easy shroud/engine removal? This machine seems pretty quiet to me, and looks pretty cool. Hope I can get it working well. Thanks for any help.

@barne,

why don't you start a new thread asking for HS621 service diagrams.  there are a lot of people with HS621 and may have the service manual to share with you.

barne wrote:
I've heard people buying knock offs GX160 engines but put on genuine Honda carburetor.  You've got the real GX engine, why put on a knockoff carb???  These knockoff carbs can be found on Ebay.

Anyways, the carb is accessible from the bottom without removing the cover.  I would start looking at cleaning jets, checking governor linkage/springs.  I would work on the existing carb before giving up on it.

Thanks a lot, aa335. I guess I WILL try to clean up the carb I have. But was tempted to just slap on a knockoff carb after reading somewhere here on Abbysguide about a guy who had trouble cleaning his HS621 carb, then found a $12 knockoff carb which worked great. Here's my plan. (Never messed with a carb before so could be interesting.) Will drain the fuel, then will tip machine forward, leaning up onto its chute to see if I can wrench out the carb from the bottom (not real confident about making this step work). If that works, I'll go at things with some Gumout, poking a thin wire through various carb passages if possible, then slap it all back together and hope to run without choke full on. If that doesn't improve things, I might try higher octane fuel. Might be back on here in a day or so asking where to buy new carb gaskets. If still running on full choke, I might ask for any direct pointer to a decent priced knockoff carb. Don't really feel like spending the $62 for OEM if an approx. $12 knockoff will get me running strong. Thanks again, aa35!

For what it's worth, I doubt that high-octane gas would make any kind of meaningful difference.

Also, for carb gaskets, I bought a rebuild kit for my weedwhacker over the summer. I was a bit surprised when it did not include a new gasket for between the carb and the engine. That one had ripped during disassembly, too. It was a thick-paper type of gasket. So I took it to an auto parts store and bought a roll of the same type of gasket material, for about $5. I traced out the old gasket and cut a replacement out of the new roll, it worked great.

I did the same thing recently for the carb on another engine, using the same roll of material. No problems. You can probably buy the exact replacement gasket you need, but if you don't want to wait, or to pay that much, you can probably make your own.

Great tip, RedOctobyr! If mine rips, I'll head to Ralph's for some gasket material.