Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

pulling out my hair trying to make a decision on snow blowers.  latest challenge is ariens platinum 30 or john deere 1330?  Seems like they are pretty similar machines and the deere has electric chute options (convenience / repair issue).  i can save 150 bucks with deere, but thinking that is short money if ariens is better machine.  Any takers?

scopes01 wrote:
scopes01, first off, welcome to the forum.  I appreciate your post because I had no clue that the auger shafts could/would be so short on a machine.  I have always just assumed that snowblower auger shafts were all full length on all machines from all manufacturers.  That certainly explains the supports above the gear case that I've seen on the Ariens; and now John Deere, built by Briggs.  How about Simplicity?  Those are also built by Briggs.  I wonder how widespread this fact is.  My Toro 1028LXE has two shear bolts on the auger shafts, but they are nearer the outer end of the shafts, proving that the shafts go all the way through.  And of course, there is no gear case support arm.

Speaking of Ariens, I happen to have their catalogs from 2007-2008 through 2011-2012.  Those supports appear on the 2007-2008 Deluxe machines.  For 2008-2009, they appear on the Deluxe Track and Deluxe models .  For 2009-2010 through 2011-2012, they appear on the Platinum and Deluxe models.  Now, my first thought is that I don't like the idea.  I'd rather have those shafts go all the way through.  However, I don't know if from an engineering view the machines with the short auger shafts are at a mechanical disadvantage.  All the stress is on those two shear bolts near the gear case.  I have pictures of the bucket area of a Platinum 30 at Home Depot.  Indeed, there are only two shear bolts, both close to the gear case.  No other shear bolts on the auger shaft.  That proves the point.  This isn't just an Ariens thing, however, as evidenced by the JD 1330SE.  Is this really a problem, or just a perceived problem?  I'm not convinced Ariens is willing to sacrifice their reputation over a shorter auger shaft.  Maybe Snowmann can enlighten us.

How easy is the ATC on the Ariens to turn?  I hear various opinions on that.

Thanks Ray for welcoming me to this site…I really enjoy reading the different posts and comments from everyone!

Traditionally, all snow blowers have had auger shafts that would spread from one end to another through the gear case. Coming from a machining & manufacturing background, the only reason that I can think of for going with a shorter auger shaft is simply manufacturing costs. Plain and Simple!….If any sales guy try’s to tell you otherwise like rigidity and performance is improved with a shorter shaft…in my opinion he is simply incompetent. Now to say that it is a totally bad design isn’t fair on my behalf to say.  It all comes down to the application and what it will be used for. I have sold quality Japanese CNC machine tools for most of my professional sales career, and one important point that I would ask the customer is what he wanted to do or try to achieve. Therefore, if consumer has a 15 ‘wide x 20’length driveway, the Ariens Compact or Deluxe model is fine and will do a great job. However, if the consumer tells me that he will be doing all driveways on his street on regular basis. I would then suggest him to go to a Commercial grade machine. As for Simplicity, John Deere and Snapper…if I am not mistaken they are all built by Briggs & Stratton.  As for Toro, it has a complete auger shaft that goes across on all their two stage machines older and new. Another point that I realized with Snowblower manufacturers recently. Is the fact that they have become much more marketing oriented. For instance, Ariens used an aluminum auger gearbox case (no support and a complete shaft) for the longest time on their entire residential line model machines same as Toro. For the Ariens commercial grade line they were using a cast iron gear box different from the one used today. Now, they have decided to supply a commercial grade cast iron gearbox on all their models (residential & commercial) to the exception of the Compact models. However, a short shaft on the residential machine and a complete shaft for the commercial machines. I think it sounds good to promote “Commercial Grade Gearbox with 5 years warranty”. Now if they wanted to supply a short shaft on their previous version aluminum split type gearbox casing, they would have had a lot problems with leaks and cracked casing because of the stress and twist of not having a complete shaft supporting it from one end to another. Also they couldn’t use the older cast iron gearbox casing either with the shorter shaft, because of its design with side flanges and seals. Therefore; they re-designed a totally new cast iron gear box for both applications (complete and short shafts for the entire line-up except for their Compact line)

Regarding the ATC on the Ariens….it is a really good feature that is offered. There is a little resistance when you turn, but almost unnoticeable. If you stick to a smaller machine like a 28” housing, it is very easy to manoeuvre than a 36” machine. I guess that was always the case. I happen to take a closer look at the ATC system on the Ariens (Platinum & Professional series). It is a really cool design. It is a Hilliard Auto-Lok system. It has two female internal splines bore on each side of the gear assemly for the axle shaft to enter. Then these Auto-Lok acts like tension device to release the resistance when you turn and yet still have traction on both wheels. John Deere 1330SE model also offers the same feature under a different marketing name called "Easy Steer"...and it is also a Hilliard product. Hope the info helps...Take care!

I had the 1330 with easy steer and did not like it at all.  It was very difficult to keep in a straight line - kept veering from side to side and was a contunuous fight.  And when taking a partial cut it was almost impossible to keep it from strongly veering into the deep snow.

Hi Joe

I know for a fact that the Auto-Lok Differential from Hilliard is used on the drive axle of your John Deere 1330 SE machine. Which they call the "Easy Steer". Now the way it is integrated into the snow machine's design is another issue all together. I have closely looked at the ARIENS ST28DLE and JD 1330SE Auto-Lok Differential from Hilliard. The main difference is that the ARIENS is using a spur gear around the Auto-Lok and a pinion to drive the axle with both wheels. The spur gear surface is about 1" wide and the pinion even more. Perhaps, 1.250" of surface for the pinion. I would have to open and measure to get exact size, but its about that. This surface contact increases the stability, rigidity and decreaes the vibration of the axle. John Deere doesn't have a spur gear around the Hillard Auto-Lok unit and neither a pinion. They are using a sprocket and chain to drive the axle. The sprocket is fitted to Auto-Lok and expected to give you that Easy Steer you looking for. Unfortunately, it's not giving you the performance you were expecting....Perhaps, it is also defective too...eventhough it is mounted on a sprocket and chain it should still be going on a straight line. I hope that this summarize it....Please send me your e-mail address and I will e-mail you two diagramms and pictures to explain the difference. Regards, Scopes01

FYI, not all throwers have full length auger shafts. My Simplicity 560 (and the 760, 860 series anyway) has 6" of shaft coming out of each side of the auger. This thing has had hard use here in Minnesota every winter since it was new 20+ years ago. There wasn't any issues from lack of full shafts, other than it could only rustweld part of the shaft to the auger. I am happy for the short shafts actually since I had a heck of a time getting it apart to replace the worm gear. My drive is over 400' long and is full of rocks, and sticks falling from trees. I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of full shafts on the newer machines. It took me this long to bust it and I'm not delicate with the machine.

scopes01 wrote:
Thanks for that Mr. Scopes - it may explain it.  Don't need the diagrams because I returned the 1330 in favor of a Honda 928 (the 1330 had other issues around traction too).  May be interesting for all to see the diagrams here though if you could post them.

Hi Joe...Good move to exchange it for the Honda...How do you like the Hydrostatic transmission?...does it work well....I really liked the Honda...nicely finshed and well engineered. The only thing about them is that I found them expensive. Other than that...it is a very nice machine...I haven't figured out yet on how to post diagramm on this site...But I will try..Cheers..Scopes01

We're getting 6-10" of snow tonight, so I'll be using my 1330SE for the first time tomorrow morning.  I'm going to be pissed if it works like ass.

gman4 wrote:
Here's a link where Snowmann (Ariens engineer) posted some comments about John Deere blowers:

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/49213-A-1.html

See the original poster and Snowmann's comments (#1 response).


Here's a link about the Hilliard Auto-Lok used by Ariens and John Deere:

http://productsearch.machinedesign.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/Hilliard/Hilliard_AutoLok_Differential/108436/0

In case you missed it, see also response #10 on this thread, by scopes01, regarding the difference between the Ariens use of the Auto-Lok and the John Deere use of it.


The John Deere is quite nose-heavy whereas the Ariens seems more balanced by comparison.  The heavier nose will be easier by nature to go through a pile of snow without the front end lifting up, but how heavy a person wants the nose is a personal choice.  The JD's electric chute controls concern me as far as longevity is concerned.  I would prefer a traditional and proven mechanical system that you know will work year after year.  I think the JD's are well built, but so are the Ariens.  Briggs builds the JD's, but for how long?  And then what do you do if Briggs bails out and you need parts?  Ariens blowers have always been built only by Ariens.  At least parts and service would be pretty easy to come by.

oljeeptek wrote:
oljeeptek, welcome to our forum.  Your comments are interesting.  I've not seen a discussion of auger shaft lengths before this thread came along.  Maybe it's not that big of an issue.  At any rate, after I made my first post on this thread before I went to work (see #7 above), I had time to ponder the Ariens short-auger issue further, and made a list of observations and questions:

1)  I assume the auger is hollow after the shear bolt.

2)  Is it solid for an inch or so at the end and shaped like a full-length shaft end so it can act as such in the bushing on the side of the housing, or just capped at the end with a part attached that is shaped like a full-length shaft end? 

3)  My son's Ariens ST824 (1993 model) has a full-length shaft with one shear bolt per side of the auger (each side is a single section), each located in the middle of the shaft, as compared to today's Deluxe and Platinum models where the bolts are about an inch on either side of the gearcase.  Interestingly, my Toro 1028LXE's shear bolts are located exactly 2.5 inches from the outer end of the shaft where it goes into the housing-side bushing.  Three different blowers, three different locations to apply power and absorb stress.  What does it matter how long the auger shaft is, then?   The only comment I can think of would be that a bolt in the middle of each side of the auger would evenly spread out applied power and any stresses the auger encounters in operation.

4)  The issue of the auger shaft rusting solid with the hollow auger shaft becomes a non-issue, since there are only a couple of inches of shaft to lubricate.

5)  Does the gearcase support arm hanging from the housing get in the way of snow movement to the impeller?

6)  Maybe the idea of the gearcase being supported from above is a good idea whatever the length of the auger shaft is because it takes away weight from the auger bushings on the sides of the housing.

7)  Conversely, maybe point #6 is wrong.  Maybe it's better to have a solid, full-length steel shaft supporting the gearcase instead of the support arm above.  That's what the Pro models have, after all.  Hmm.

7)  Ariens is saving money on steel used for the shaft as compared to the amount of steel used for the support arm.

Well, these are just things I thought of.  As a result, I think I'm not really concerned about the auger shaft length issue too much.  Maybe somebody else has another opinion?