Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Any advice as to which of these two single stage blowers is the better choice?  Thanks.

Recently discussed  here: 

Toro 621QZ or Toro 221QR, proven performers.  It just works, no worries.

I would be buying Honda 520 if I thought it was better than Toro 621. The price on Toro is very reasonable as well for 2011.

Whichever you decide buying at the end, check your local craigslist ads.

After paying $246 for a used Honda HS621 single stage, yesterday I saw an ad for the same snow blower for $175 and the location was way closer to where I live. Although it looked a little more worn-out.

And also yesterday I saw an ad for a gently used Toro single stage with electric start, the price was $150. I wish I waited a little longer.I can not justify buying my third snowblower.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/2674999404.html Toro

@blumonster

Looks like you got quite a good deal on the HS621 for $246.  Around here, those would easily fetch $400 to $450, and they get bought up very quickly.  

aa335 wrote:

People usually look for big snowblowers after a rough winter. When I moved into a new house with a steep driveway, I wanted something that can handle the worst winter.  That way, I can be self-sufficient and not having to wait for plow trucks or other people to help.  Plus, I have a rear wheel drive car with 5 inches of ground clearance.  It has to be brought into the garage because I will not leave it out on the streets overnight.

In 1998, a new Honda HS621 sold for $800, the electric start was even more.  Now, the HS621 is only available in Canada, for $1200.  The GX160 commercial grade engine, the metal bucket, and the tough metal auger is expensive.  They were overbuilt, and they were too costly for US consumers.  The Toro single stage units was much more competitive in price, and with very good performance too.  Parts and service network support was better, so it had overall lower ownership cost.

my vote is toro. i've had both and have found the toros just throw snow better.  personal fav would be the 2450 2 stroke.

seabird wrote:
Is there much difference between a 2450 and a 221QE?

borat wrote:
Essentially the same powercurve auger, the 2450 lower bucket section is metal, upper is plastic.  Side plates are metal on the bottom, plastic on top.  The 2450 has the same Rtek engine, but only 20" width.  It was designed only for the Rtek 2 stroke engine.  Engine cowl is red, console is black.  It has more compact and lean look.

The 221Q has all metal side plates, added pivoting scraper, quick chute, zip deflector, and square deflector.  221Q can accommodate both 2 stroke and 4 stroke engine on the same chassis due to the cast aluminum engine mount.  The bucket section is unibody style like the HS621 and HS35.

I stopped by my trusted Honda OPE dealer today and asked them about reliabilites of Honda HS520 and Toro 621 (same as 421) SS. The dealer owner tells me that Honda HS520 is much more reliable and experiences far less service calls compared to Toro 621.  The owner thinks the quick chute is a great idea and selling point  for Toro but you have to anticipate more service on the carb of Toro 621.   I have to assume some truth on this since he sells and services both Honda and Toro.

@MNRunner

Did you buy one yet?

Not yet - It just bothers me to hear that Honda is more reliable than Toro.

@aa335

Trust your Toro 421 started without any issue this fall.  I have a little time before deciding since no snow for another 10 days or so.  I am sure the realiability question entered and resolved before you bought your Toro.

Do you own a Honda automobile? 

I used to have Honda Accords.  They were reliable and safe to drive.  But they were also very boring to drive, at least to me.  They were appliances on wheel, always humming along.  What bothers me is because they were so reliable, I didn't have an excuse to get rid of them. 

The last Honda was a 1998 Accord developed transmission failure and had all kinds of emission problems.  After putting in $3000 during the 10 years I had it, I drove it to 250,000 miles and got rid of it.  I was not going to get another Accord, they keep getting bigger and bigger and drove like everything else. 

Now, I like to sacrifice some reliability for excitement. 

As a matter of fact, I own Honda (2005 Odyssey with 80K) and Toyota (2007 Camry with 110K) and they are boring and these cars have not been in the shop too often.  I generally fix my own cars when I can and the repairs are not over my head.  I am also boring too as I run everyday (my blood pressure is 90/60 and a resting heart rate of 45 bpm) and have not been to doctors office too often.  I do have one coming up for my big 50 physical exam and hopefully the results are boring too.  Sometimes being boring is okay ...

Snowblowers are exciting so a little service call is not big deal.

What would you expect a Honda dealer to tell you?  Did you ask him to elaborate on where the Toro failed in reliability?  It's very unlikely that a vendor is going to compliment or recommend a competing product?   Sure Honda products are great.  So are Toros.  I bought a Toro 221QE last year for a very good price.  Good thing I did because Toro has since discontinued using two cycle engines. 

Now that everything has four stroke engines in them, between the Honda and Toro, I'd buy the machine that had the best price. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Actually, I did took a chance and bought the Toro with the Loncin engine.  It was the second year Toro used this engine so I figured the bugs been worked out.  It wasn't.

My 421QE did develop a fuel leak last winter.  I put on a fuel shutoff valve and used it the rest of the season.  I just have to run the engine until the float bowl is dry before putting it away. 

Besides that issue, there wasn't any other problems.  I started easily up last week and it ran fine, still had the fuel leak though.  I need to bring it to the dealer for them to replace the carburetor.  It's not a big deal, I still have the other trusty backup SS so I'm prepared for the snow.

I'm sure you'll be fine which ever SS you chose.  This year Toro 621 is likely to be trouble free, the Honda HS520 is also reliable.  My father has the 5-year old HS520 and has been trouble free.

@borat --- It is Toro/Honda dealer.  He sells both then some other brands like Deere.

I do like the way Toro 621/421 blows the snow more so than HS520.  I just don't want to have a starting issue when my wife has to use it when I am at work or away on business trip.  My brother in law has HS520 for the past four years without any issue.  It blows okay.  Toro 621R is $500 out the door and HS520 is $650 out the door.  The rubber parts are also much more reasonable on Toro.  I am planning to pick up Toro 621R next week from a Toro dealer about two miles from my house.  I hope the carb/gas leak issues are done on the new 621.

MN_Runner wrote:

Wow!

I thought things were boring in Iowa, but not so boring that I find snowblowers exciting.

Anyway, I bought a Toro 421 last year and love it.

No gas leak problems at all, but I did install a gas shutoff valve just in case.

The recall was done this summer and consisted of a new carburetor and a new gas line.

The mechanic at my dealer said that all the machines he worked on that had an actual problem had been using gasohol.

In my area, alcohol free gas is still available and I don't use gasohol in anything I own. That might be part of the reason I never had the fuel leak problem.

The Loncin engine has been fine. It was a concern of mine when I made the purchase and I almost didn't buy the 421 just because of the Chinese engine. Based on my experience so far, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. Hopefully I will still feel that way 5 or 10 years down the road.

Given the cost difference you quoted, I would buy the Toro.

I bought the 421QE with all the bells and whistles and I think it was around $800. I have never used the electric start, but I bought it thinking it might help resale if I decided a single stage machine was not for me. The Quick Shoot and the Zip Deflector are not necessities, but they are nice to have. I would buy them again. Since the electric start was only another $100, I would probably get that again even though I might never use it. 

I scored my Toro 221QE from Home Depot for less than $600.00.  Must have been a phase out sale to discontinue the two cycle engines.  The local Toro gouger was selling the very same machine for...... wait for it.......

$1000.00!!!!! 


I swear, that dealer must never get out of his shop.  Home Depot is less than a mile from his place.   Funny part is that the Toro shop is right at a fairly busy intersection.  When I was hauling the 221QE home in the back of the pick-up, I had to stop at the intersection and right in front of the Toro dealership's main entrance/door and display window.  I was there for a full set of lights and it's a five way intersection.  I know they could see the machine in the back of the truck with the labels etc. blowing in the breeze. 

You think they'd be smart enough to drop their price to something reasonable?  Nope.  Fortunately for them, there are enough uninformed/stupid people around to keep them in business. 

Borat,

Are you planning to run two 221Qs at the same time?  Just curious on why you purchased another 221Q.  There must be a good reason since you are very logical.

@aa335,

Do you know whether the Toro 621/421 can accept Honda GX160 engine?  Do you know whether the engine on your Toro uses standard 3/4" shaft?  Thanks for your help.

MN_Runner wrote:

When you are in love something/somebody, logic is the last thing you would would invoke. :D

MN_Runner wrote:
Not sure how/where I said I had two 221QEs.  I have just the one.  However, I also have a 1997 Craftsman SS machine and a 2005-ish MTD SS machine.  Both powered by 139cc Tecumseh two cycle engines.  I got them both dirt cheap and put a lot of time/work on the Craftsman last winter.  I over-ride the governors on the Tecumseh's to run them at 6000+ rpm.  I can actuate the governor to work like a throttle.  Kind of like using a chain saw.  Rev up the engine to throw snow and let off when backing up etc.  I flogged that Craftsman pretty hard at high rpm and it just keeps on going.  I'm curious how much abuse the Tecumseh two cycle engine can handle.  I find it much more fun to operate than the Toro that runs at a fixed 4000 rpm.   I didn't get the MTD until later in the year.  I over-ride it also but it's a bit on the light side and not as effective as the Craftsman.  I think I'll plant it on the deck to keep it clear. 

For real big snow events, I use the Simplicity two stage machine.    

MN_Runner wrote:
Can't say for sure, haven't poked around inside the machine getting measurements. 

The current engine is probably a GX160 clone so everything is likely to be similar in dimensions; the power is going to be the same too, or close to it.  No point to do the engine swap unless it fails or it gives you comfort having a real GX160. 

Honda has updated some of their snowblower models this year, hopefully, there's going to be a HS520 update or redesign sometime this decade  .   Hopefully a GX200 or GX240 finds it way in there, in the form of a HS621.  Just hoping....