Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I lucked out Sunday, October 23 (my birthday) by landing a 2008 Toro 1028LXE (with Tecumseh L-Head, 10hp) for only $599.  It was almost brand new.  This retailed for $1799, just like the current 1028OXE with a Briggs 305cc.  The man at the farm said on the phone that he probably should have sold it for more but that he would honor his ad.  He didn't seem to mind.  I'd been debating between Ariens (like a Platinum 24) and the Toro 1028OXE.  In another thread, I mentioned that maybe something would turn up on Craigslist.  It did.  Now to see how well all those plastic parts hold up, like the steering triggers.  Plastic triggers with plastic hinges.  Small parts, so we'll see.  Plastic hand levers, and plastic chute controls.  Plastic control deck.  I do like the look of this blower and it's conveniences, but now I can actually play with it this winter and see how much I really like it, and test the robustness.  I had to slightly re-position the chute-lock lever cable that's under that plastic cover because the lock wasn't releasing from the gear quite enough.  It was hitting the gear as I swung the chute around.  Now fixed and works perfectly.

I still haven't ruled out an Ariens Platinum 24 at some point because it was my original intention, anyway, until this hot deal popped up.  Couldn't pass it up for that price.  Runs good, too. 

Anyone else been through a sudden change of direction like mine? 

aa335 wrote:

Yes, perception is king. My father was a machinist and he goes with metal every time even tho for certain applications certain types of plastic are better. But he's old school depression era and metal is what you buy for longevity. I find it interesting that you don't see a lot of complaints about Toro. They last and endure and are made in the USA. Ariens is a decent brand and made in the USA as well but I don't feel they are superior to Toro. They certainly weigh more and cost less. Pig iron is pretty cheap nowadays.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Toro and Ariens are both fine machines.  That's why they are often compared against one another.  Besides the exterior differences in the bucket thickness, chute materials, and handles and controls, they both have strong and robust snow moving mechanicals.  Those are the components that determines reliability of the machine.

aa335 wrote:
I think it's hard to not appreciate the obvious robustness of steel.  We need steel for the housing area because the augers and impeller just demand that.  The handlebars attached to the housing and coming up to the control deck need to be steel.  The engine sits on a steel box.  We want a steel rod, under the control deck cover, that connects the two handle levers (for drive and augers) so they can be interlocked for one-hand control of the unit.  We have steel gears, shafts, pulleys, and plates in the tranny box.  The auger drive shaft goes into a cast-iron or heavy-duty aluminum gear case to in turn drive steel shafts for steel-bladed augers.  These are all natural "givens"  on all snow blowers.

Toro has chosen to use plastic in those other areas where it CAN be used without causing harm.  First is the chute, which is not a big deal to me because I know that the polymer plastic used is thick and strong.  Ariens even used it during the 2010-2011 season on all three of their two-stage Sno-Tek units, though for this current 2011-2012 season they have gone back to steel for the top two Sno-Tek models.  Toro has also chosen to use plastic above the impeller area of the housing, though I'm not sure why.  Maybe that's why they have those steel arm braces coming off the back of the bucket area to join to the impeller part of the housing, in order to reinforce that area due to the missing steel section.  Maybe it's intended as a place to access the impeller itself if needed.  Toro has a thick plastic control deck cover which seems pretty strong, but the cover doesn't take any stress compared to other areas of the machine. 

My greatest concern is with their use of plastic for the little steering triggers AND the hinges the triggers rotate in.  These are fairly small parts.  I wonder how well they will hold up over time, being so small.  On the other hand, the hand levers are pretty thick plastic.  Then there is the Quick-Stick unit, an integration of plastic and small steel parts.  I'm not sure about that, really.

I think the overall issue is the POTENTIAL problem of the plastic by its nature not being as strong as steel for handling abuse.  The 2011-2012 Ariens control deck is built with steel and is like a tank, including the parts underneath.   I confess I do like that.  I have to trust that Toro has placed plastic in areas that they believe will be able to stand up well over time.  With my "new" El Toro 1028LXE, I will have plenty of time to see how it goes.  I take care of what I own, so I don't expect problems (hope, heh).  Though I am a confessing Ariens guy, I really like my Toro.  Both companies make fine machines.  People just buy what they like, but hopefully their purchases are informed ones.  I still think it's funny and weird how I was going to buy the Platinum 24 and ended up with this Craigslist El Toro without even looking for a Toro.  It came up and the $600 price was awesome.  I'd be an idiot to not go for it.  I think I'll go read a bedtime story to El Toro! now, then tuck him in for the night in my bedroom.

I've had no problem with any of the plastic parts on my Toro 1028 at all. of course I take care of it and don't abuse it. But the joystick and triggers work well and the worst problem I have had is if they need adjustment but that would happen even with metal and it takes longer to get my tools up from the basement than to adjust the triggers. I can respect Ariens for making a good machine and they are very durable but they are a lot more work to steer if you have a bad back (me) or are small like my wife.

If a Toro and an Ariens was put next to each other, my natural reaction is to gravitate towards the Ariens.  I was wholy impressed with the thickness of the steel and metal here and there.  If I part my money, I want to get metal in return, not FIsher Price plastics. 

Now standing behind the handlebars gives me a totally different perspective.  All that metal doesn't seem to matter as much anymore.  Suddenly, the plastic parts on the Toro just makes sense.  Hey, somebody who designed this thing really put some thought into making operating this 250 pound beast without frustration or apprehension.

So that got me thinking, if all this plastic doo dad does what its supposed to do and holds up, and it makes me feel comfortable.  I think I can live with that as long as I don't intend to ramrod this snowblower as if it was a tiller trying to pulverize soil or the unsuspecting frozen newspaper buried in the snow.

aa335 wrote:

Your perception would probably be accurate for 95% of the people looking at snowblowers as far as the first part. Toro is for people who see beyond the metal exterior. I think if you had it setup where you could use both machines more people would go for the Toro that normally would not buy a snowblower and Ariens would get the guys who want the macho looking heavy steel beast. Toro is not as friendly on your wallet as Ariens tho.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
The Toro is pricier and that is a problem for people on the fence.

Customer:  "So let me get this straight, the Toro costs more, has less metal, doesn't come with handwarmers, and I have to squeeze these levers to turn??"

Sales Guy:  "That is correct.  Quick Stick chute is very easy to use, the machine is easy to maneuver, even your wife can use it"

Customer:  "So you're saying this Toro is designed for women? and that's why it costs more?  Just like women have to pay more at the dry cleaners?"

Sales Guy: "I have nothing to do with that sir, women get charged more for car repairs as well.  Many men have to go to shopping malls with their spouse, even though they don't want to.  Just the way things are.  Toro has conducted focus group studies and have identified that more women are interested in sharing the duties of snow removal."

Customer:  "You don't say! I don't think this Toro is for me.  I can't see paying more for this emasculated equal-opportunity plasticky machine."

Sales Guy: "Can I interest you in an Ariens?  They are very macho, thick steel everywhere.  The transmission was co-developed by Dana"

Customer:  "I don't like the color orange, and I don't like transmission developed by a woman named "Dana"

Sales Guy:  "Perhaps this Honda here will fit you"

Customer:  "$3000 bucks@@@  Are you freaking crazy?"

Hahahaha too funny!

I'll take the fire engine red Toro please, I'm confident in my masculinity.

Looks like I'll be using it in teh morning as we are going to get 8-12 inches of snow.

I'm open to suggestions for videos. Of the snowblower.

Very funny, indeed  Good stuff, aa335.  Yes, we all should be careful when trying to take care of the "big stuff".  Our blowers aren't invincible!

I went on I-90 across the border to Idaho today to a major dealer who carries Ariens and Toro.  I was able to spend about 20 minutes studying the Toro 1028OXE and the Ariens Pro 28.  I looked at everything I could think of, such as the control deck (top and underneath), housing thickness, controls, use of plastic, nose weight and balance, chute controls, engine sizes as they look on the machine, how they manuever when off, augers, etc.  The Ariens, interestingly, has two small plastic cog-wheel parts regarding the interlocking of the two hand levers, but Toro, and even the Husqvarnas that were in the showroom, also have a plastic "cog wheel" on a shaft..  They are on the ends of the Ariens lever shafts as they meet in the middle.  The left one pushes the little piece of metal back, and the right one has that "tooth" that catches the metal piece.  Like a rachet.  They were plastic.  My son's 1993 Ariens ST824 has a single METAL "cog" wheel that is held by the so-called ratchet piece.  Please excuse my bad description of this mechanism.  Well, anyway, it's the only plastic pieces under the Ariens control panel.  Everything else is solid steel, etc.

Here's the underside of the Ariens Pro 28 control panel where the interlock mechanism is located:

  

The control panel more or less holds the handlebars at the tops, so it was important for Toro to use beefy plastic for that cause.  They do have the plastic triggers and hinges, but I noticed that the Ariens Deluxe models have the sort of light metal left trigger that appears to hinge on plastic, or maybe it was light metal painted over.  Not sure.  But other than these little items, the Ariens does have the metal parts everywhere.  Toro didn't seem to use plastic except where they thought it would be fine to use.  Everything else is steel, too.  I came to the conclusion that the Toro Power Max models are basically in the same class as the Ariens Deluxe and Platinum models so far as the metals that are used for all of these blowers.  The Ariens definitely has the thicker steel housing on the three Pro models.  They were intended for commerical use, really, not that the Platinum and Deluxe models can't be used for that purpose; it's just that all of the Ariens models have their place.  Same for Toro.  Hey, we all come out okay with all of these good choices.  Whatever we need, we can get.

Steve, I noticed the Toro turns easier on the showroom floor than the Ariens Pro models, but I have no idea how either feels when operating.  I haven't had a chance to try out the Ariens ATC feature.  I wish I could so I could compare it to my new El Toro! 1028LXE.  Yes, Toro does costs more for what I think is basically their version of the Ariens Platinum models.  Ariens should offer people a Platinum 28 so there would be a more fair comparison of the price.

coasteray wrote:

You will find that during a storm the Toro will also turn easier and by pulling both triggers you can freewheel it backwards. This helps in many areas in my driveway. I certainly got a good workout today, my gosh was that snow heavy! I'm sure an Ariens would have done a good job of moving it as well but it takes a storm like this to humble a 2 stage snowblower!