Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Going back and forth as to which one! Same price, Local dealers that service, like the look of both. Kinda leaning toward the Ariens only cause of the bigger engine 342 vs 305,is that a good reason?,or is 28" Toro a little more nibble to move around. Ariens seem to have more metal and less plastic, see I go back and forth.Please help ! Need to buy soon! Thanks for your suggestions.

Play around with each one and determine which feels more comfortable to you. Not sure what your winter snow conditions are like but the difference in engine and bucket size is marginal although the 28" will be a bit easier to manuever if you have tight areas to work around.

tgseaver wrote:

I have the Toro 1028 and quite a few videos of it on YouTube with my wife using it and she only weighs 84 lbs.!

The Toro is much easier to use over the Ariens which you will have to muscle around each storm. The Toro has skid sterring so you just pull a lever and it turns, no muscle required. Also it will turn on a dime. I've had the Toro for 3 years now and zero problems with the plastic which sheds snow instead of sticking to it. Dealers really push Ariens over Toro, yet in my area they sell out of Toro almost every year. Try them both but remember that these machines work differently on snow.

tgseaver wrote:
Well, one issue that might be important to you is concerning the Ariens ATC (Automatic Traction Control) compared to Toro's steering triggers.  Ariens used to have that left wheel knob on certain models so you could change between locked two-wheel operation and true differential.  Now the new ATC favors two-wheel operation but you can still turn when you want to.  Snowmann has described in various postings the progression Ariens has gone through over the years from the left-wheel knob lockout (going back and forth between the planetary differential and two-wheel locked operation), then to the trigger/cable activated differential/two-wheel operation (2005 and 2006 years), then finally to the Automatic Traction Control, which lets you go from two-wheel operation to differential operation upon turning either left or right.  See these for interesting insights:

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/41971-A-1.html See comments #7, #13, #14.

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/37827-A-1.html See comments #4, #8.

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/22543-A-1.html See comments # 1, #3, #5.

Toro's trigger system disengages the inside wheel, allowing the outer wheel to help you turn easily.  I have used the Husqvarna triggers at work so I understand that.   You might want to check out Steve Cebu's You Tube videos, which are very good in illustrating Toro's steering system and Quick-Stick chute operations.  Now if someone would do us all a favor and do the same with their Ariens, that would be very helpful to those trying to decide what to do. 

If steering and chute operations are really important to you, then Toro is the way to go.  The plastic on the Toro is working thus far, but If you prefer the robust all-steel build, along with cast-iron gear case and hand warmers, then Ariens is excellent there.  Check out the company web sites, too.

Prices:  Ariens Platinum 24 (250cc Briggs engine) is around $1400 or so new.  Ariens Platinum 30 (342cc engine) is around $1700 new.  Toro's 28-inch 1028 OXE (Briggs 305cc engine) is about $1800.

Hope this is helpful. 

Thanks for the replies, I am leaning towards the Ariens (bigger engine,less plastic). It might come down to which local dealer I like best. My last blower was a 12 year old 7hp Yard man track drive that you had to almost pick up to turn lol,So I am upgrading big time with either blower.

I am leaning toward either upgrading my engine or selling and buying a new larger Toro........I will keep you all posted!

Kick in a few more $$ and grab a Ariens Pro 28 - ST28DLE.  28" with a 420cc engine!  Should be able to relocate any cars left in the driveway! 

stresst wrote:

Why not buy the bigger Toro and sell or trade in your old one?

I think the problem you will have is that if you go with the 1128 you will have that PITA bar to deal with. Commercial guys up in my area buy the 1028 because that bar can malfunction and then you are stuck.

My dealer even suggested that I get the 1028 over the 1128 for this reason and they had plenty of both

Here is a pic of it and here is the description.

Pivoting Scraper

Available exclusively on the Toro Power Max 1128 OXE, this innovative design allows the scraper to pivot front to back, clearing down to the pavement and preventing sudden stops from cracks or contours.

I am in the exact same boat. I have also been going back and forth between the 2.

I currently have a 28" 9hp Crapsman which is about 5 or 6 years old. It works, OK but I was looking to upgrade. I went into buy an Ariens but ended up starting to think about getting the Toro. My friend sells both and is pretty honest about everything. He just bought the Toro, we also went in back to see how they come to the shop. The Toro machines have way less errors or better quality control from the factory. This was bad to hear since Ariens is from Wisconsin and I actually don't live that far from the factory. Now the extent to the quality issues were loose parts, parts put on upside down or backwards, so nothing that will really hinder the overall performance. The other thing I put into the mix is my father has had both Ariens and Toros but more recently Toros so I know the past quality is good. The other side of me would like to support a local made in the USA business. Another little bit is Ariens can no longer put the American flag on their machines because the tires are outsourced from outside the USA now. This is not a big deal to me.

This is what I have come up with so far:

Both have 3 year limited warranties, Ariens has 5 year on gear cases.

Price is a wash for me.

Areins has larger clearing path by 2", not a deal breaker for me because with either way you have to make 2 passes down the sidewalk.

Ariens has the larger motor, 342 vs 305cc. It may not be a lot but I am buying this for the deep heavy crap that I don't want to shovel so 40cc's is 40cc's more power that is keeping me from shoveling. Now you could go to the Toro 1128 to match the Arien's power but with that pivoting scraper, you have to have a perfect surface for it to be efficient. I do not have a perfect driveway or sidewalk. Plus the dealer suggested staying away from that.

Areins, all steel, heavy duty. Toro has plastic that is proven. My Crapsman has a plastic chute that I have sent softball size ice chunks through multiple times so if Crapsman can get it right I am sure Toro has it right. 

The Toro is easier to move around, lifting up the front, etc. However this is a positive and negative. Positive, it is great to move around the garage, etc. Negative because a light front will tend to lift up vs dig down on the hard packed stuff. The solution is Toro sells a weight for $80 to put on the front of it. The result, now you are paying more to have the same weight as the Ariens.

Turning, both have their own innovations and both "turn on a dime" I like the idea of the Toro with the triggers however they are one more thing that will need adjustment, are another thing that can get caught on something or get broken off due to them being plastic. When going forward both wheels are locked which I like. Now on the Areins, you don't have to pull levers, you just turn it. Plus it is good enough to put on the professional models so Ariens must believe in it. It seems to work just like a LSD in a vehicle. Now will both wheels ever be 100% locked like the Toro, no, but if it puts the power where it can hook up then I am fine with one wheel working vs 2 just spinning. If you have 2 wheels locked and no traction, it doesn't do anything for you.

Chute/Direction. I like the Toro how you can move everything like a joystick vs the Ariens controls. However is it just me that thinks the plastic joystick just feels cheap. I like the idea of it but then I go back to the reliability and the more things that need adjusting, a plastic piece that is sticking up ready to get snapped off. If they made it out of metal, would I feel better...maybe...I just don't feel that when you are spending over $1500 on a machine, why make everything out of plastic and make it feel cheap. It may not rust but at the same time, look what happened to plastic cars...bye bye Saturn. The Areins is simple, no frills, but isn't as user friendly as the Toro. However I don't have any problems using the controls, it is still nicer than my Crapsman.

Auger/Intake/Intake. The intake/auger is the same on both 14". The Toro can throw 45 feet, the Ariens 50 feet. Areins everything is steel. The Toro has a lot of plastic parts. I am not 100% against this but again I just don't know why they had to do it. You can say that snow sticks to the steel, but I have never had any issues with snow sticking to the steel on my snow blowers. And if the plastic has less resistance, should the Toro throw snow 55 feet due to less resistance? Anyhow, enough of the plastic. I do like the idea of the Toro putting the snow back into the auger that it isn't discharging. However I have a couple issues with this. 1. Shouldn't the snowblower be efficient enough to throw the snow that it is taking in in the first place. 2. What do you think the Ariens does with the snow it can't throw? Doesn't it just push it for a bit which in turn makes it to the auger anyhow. So why waste engine power to recycle the snow in the auger area? Maybe that is why the Toro doesn't throw snow as far? It isn't because of power because on both Toro and Ariens models, the less powerful models can throw just as far as their counterparts. I didn't design the thing so I don't know.

Headlight, isn't a huge deal for me but the Toro has theirs just mounted like an after thought, which looks chunky and can get caught on stuff or snapped off. The Ariens is nice, flush, and out of the way.

Tires are a wash.

Sorry for the long post but this is what I have been debating. So far I am leaning towards the Ariens but....

Its so funny you posted that post Steve, I think I have my Toro sold and now im deciding between the 1028 and 1128OXE. What do you mean the pivoting scrapper malfunctions?

tgseaver wrote:
 Dont worry about the plactic, last year I was in the street a few days after the storms using my machine as an ice cube maker! I live in the city and parking is a nightmare to begin with nevermind when everyone dumps snow in the street and then it freezes into small mountains. I was using the machine like I said to chew this stuff up, solid chunks of ice flying through the chute, at the end of the season I realized its indesctrucible!

stresst wrote:

The local dealer told me that the scraper bar can jam and apparantly it's a PITA to unjam it. It was enough of a concern that I didn't want to have a reliability issue. The 1128 costs more money and they had both units. Maybe your local dealer caan explain it better. All i know is I don't need my snowblower jamming up on me during a storm.

Hope whatever you get next will work out well for you. Me I'd buy another 1028OXE if I had to buy one again.

Klennop, Great post, good to know other people are going thur the same exact process ( with no skin in the game). I did go to a Ariens dealer and played with the Platinum's controls and got use to them quickly,I liked everything else about the Ariens, just seems to have more beef to it because of the steel. I am going to the Toro dealer today .................stay tuned............ but the Ariens is in the lead.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Any type of mechanical device in that area of the bucket is just asking for trouble. It's a nice concept but I could see sand (or other debris) getting caught up in between the scrapper blade and bucket and causing a jam. 

I spoke to the dealer today regarding a new engine as well as a new blower. First off a complete engine is not available, only the shortblock for the 10 & 11hp. I was hoping to sell my complete short block after I made the swap to recoup some cash. Price for short block and labor $700.00.

I asked about the 1028 & 1128. He said he sells more 1028 because of the price differance. He said many opt for the 828 and 1028, he said he sells his share of the 1128's and has not heard of an issue with the scrapper since 2006 when they had many issues.

Another thing I was thinking about today...again it is about the plastic. If you notice the really high end blowers from Yamaha and Honda which are easily double to triple the cost of what we are looking at don't have any plastic on them. Look at how much plastic they use on their motorcycles, snowmobiles, generators, etc. however none of them use it on their snowblowers.

Now look at the cheaper brands such as MTD, they use a ton of plastic, much like the Toro.

Just some food for thought.

klennop wrote:
Yamaha and Honda high end models (which we don't get in the US) comes with metal chutes that are lined with plastic.  Some members of this forum also have lined their chutes with plastic with benefits of slippery surface for higher chute velocity and less snow/ice sticking.  So they do come with plastic, strategically placed where it makes sense.  Honda and Yamaha is not going to crazy with plastic everywhere because customers dropping $3000+ on a snowblower as a long term investment is going to expect a good amount of metal.

While cheaper brands do utilize more plastics, it is not an indicator of poorer quality.  How it's used and where it's used is more important.  Homeowner snowblower are usually designed with higher convenience and ease of use in mind.  The Quick Stick feature of the Toro is only possible with the use of plastic chute.  Metal chutes are too heavy to move around quickly using the Quick Stick mechanism. 

Also cheaper brands do have more plastics in them, to meet price points that big box store customers expect, on top of the promotion and sales going on.  Consumers wants cheap OPE with big engines and features, whether or not they consciously aware of the trade offs in quality and performance.

For commercial use, the perception is that plastic chute will not hold up to the constant bombardment of snow and other debris.  This is partially true.  Design engineers don't go out of their way to change commercial user perception of plastic, just give them what they want and call it a day.  Properly designed chutes and material selection can make plastic chute just as good as metal chute, but why go change their mind if they want they don't want to.

Toro has always been criticized for using too much plastic in their snowblower.  A lot of that comes from non-Toro owners who do not own or use Toro.  However, there aren't too many actual Toro owners complaining about the plastics failing.  People are usually more apt to voice their dissatisfaction than praise.  If there is any complaint, it is the lightweight front end which tends to ride over the snow more easily than heavier buckets.  Other than that, Toro overall as a snowblower system seems to work and people have been happy.

Ever see what happens to plastic after it gets a good hard knock...when it's forty below zero?

Dr_Woof wrote:
It shatters.

A lot of people don't live in -40 climates.

Not going to snow much at -40.  Interesting tidbit, -40C is the same as -40F. 

mvedepo wrote:
Exactly! 

aa335 wrote:
I do agree with you on most of what you are saying but I just want to point a couple things out.

I am spending $1600+ on a snowblower so why should I settle for a bunch of plastic when the Ariens has all metal like the more expensive models. If the use of plastic isn't a indicator of poor quality on main components then why do all the high end models not use a full plastic chute or have their controls made out of plastic?

You may be right about the Quick Stick on the Toro not being able to work because of the weight of the metal chute. Well then why not make the controls out of metal to work with a metal chute? It is to save on cost right? Well then how come they don't beef up the motor to the same size of the Areins with all the money they saved using the plastic parts. I don't see any of the savings passed on to the consumer.

I have been pretty lucky with the plastic chute on my Crapsman but you know there were quite a few times I was expecting to have a hole. So have I been lucky...maybe...or does the plastic work like it should?? I just have a hard time buying another machine with the plastic chute. We get into the 40 below with windchill where I am at and again maybe I have been lucky.

As far as snow sticking to the metal, I have never had an issue with this on any device I have used in the past so I don't see that as being a problem.

As I also mentioned earlier if the plastic chute aids in less resistance, why does the Toro throw the snow less distance than the Ariens with a metal chute?

I do agree with the comment about the light front, like I also said earlier, you can buy a weight for $80 more to rectify this. For what? To make it like the Ariens where you don't have to pay extra.

I have nothing against Toro, I have owned 2 mowers, one of the smaller power curve units and an older larger Toro with the power shift system. I just feel like they are cheaping out vs the competition. Would I be happy with either unit, probably but I think bang for buck the Areins wins. I may go look at them again today.

klennop: All your posts seem to favor the Ariens unit so why not go for it. I can understand your apprehension about the plastic vs. steel even though I firmly believe that this is not an issue (although I prefer steel over plastic as well). Steel is not that expensive and high end plastics are not cheap so the overall cost savings to the manufacturer may not be as much as one might think. In the end, it all comes down to what you feel most comfortable with and perceive to be the best bang for your hard earned buck. You're going to be the guy behind the dash during horrendous weather conditions so you'll want to be as comfortable and pleased with your purchase as possible.

See my replies in blue text below:

klennop wrote:

FrankMA,

You are right about my posts favoring the Ariens because based on specs, it seems like the winning machine. Also like I said earlier, I went in to buy an Areins but started thinking about the Toro. I figured why not post exactly what has been running through my head, maybe it would help someone else in my position, or maybe it wouldn't.

Now if the cost of the plastics vs steel is close to the same, why is the price point of the Toro higher with a smaller engine, and you need to add things to make it comparable to the Areins. It just doesn't seem like a deal to the consumer. When breaking it down like I did earlier, the Ariens just seems to edge the Toro out. Not one person has said why the Toro is so much better on this forum. Everyone seems to say well you will be happy with either. So I am trying to find someone to show me why the Toro is better than the Ariens, that's all. I am not trying to start an argument or shove the Ariens down someones throat but just pointing out what I see.

aa335

I understand the whole consumer expecting more metal for their money depending on what they are buying. However speaking of performance you don't see anything high performance made out of all steel unless it is made for durability like a tractor, rototiller, snowblower, etc. You mentioned Toro not pitching all Steel like the Areins but you don't see them pitching anything about the innovative plastics either. I think it is more for saving money on their end and yes it takes money to be innovative but it isn't like the competition is standing still either. True they don't have to pass on all the savings to the consumer but at the same time, then they should make the machines even more comparable. If that Toro had the larger engine, maybe I wouldn't be so apt to be swayed towards the Ariens?

Also true there is no standard in throwing distance, what would be nice is a standard in how much volume a blower can move or something to that nature.

Yes all manufactures offer add ons, like everything else that is manufactured. My point was just that why add another $80 to a machine that is already a little more expensive than the competition to make it on par with the competition.

And for the record I am a Mac guy, we have 2 Macs however we also have 2 PC's. I would take a Mac over the PC but I am not even going to go there.


Everyone does have their own opinions on this, which is why I keep sharing what I am thinking, etc. I didn't have time to look at the machines again. Hopefully tomorrow, I will let you know what I decide but I think everyone knows which way I am leaning.

I guess I don't see Toro pitching their plastics because its a loosing battle against steel.  Why draw attention to plastic when it's perceived as inferior?  They sure don't have any problems selling their plastic products without a whole lot of hoopla.  Their media material and website is very straight forward, customer use focused, not specifications focused.  Some people are frustrated about this approach, some just don't care as much.  The fact that you are closely considering Toro versus Ariens means that Toro is doing something right.  Toro is priced higher than Ariens for the same features, plastic and all, but people are still cross shopping.

Last year, Ariens picked on Toro 210 single stage snowblower with their Sno-Tek 2 stage 24" snowblower, on the premise that they are both priced about the same.  It was quite a cheesy attempt on Youtube.  Its like pitting $25,000 Mini Cooper against a $25,000 a pickup truck in a contest of hauling 6 people across town.  This year, Ariens firing another salvo with the Pro 28 with crazy 400cc engine and some heavy metal hardware, for $2000, to steer Toro customers away, or some kind of statement as the most powerful end of drive pile buster.  Will it work?  Maybe...or will it have the sophistication of a pony car?  I guess I'm having trouble understanding how a 15 hp snowblower with a 28" wide opening isn't going to buck around like a wild mustang when chewing crusty heavy snow.

Manufacturers charge whatever they can on accessories, whether it's a for a car or snowblower.  It's high profit and it would be foolish for them not to tap this revenue.  Being on par is poor marketing, "me too" and commodity driven.  To win market share, it has to be compellingly different.   Otherwise, all you have to choose between is Orange or Red,  Buick or Pontiac.

I have a Mac at home, I use PC at work.  I like the simplicity of Mac when I'm home, the flexibility of PC when at work.  They both coexist fine.  I'd take a Mac if given just one to pick.  I'm at an age that I don't care to tweak and adjust, I just want to work right out of the box, everyday!

klennop wrote:

Well as I said you hear a lot of people worrying about the platic breaking but under normal use it generally doesn't break. sure if you back your car into the chute or something it'll break. Also Toro and Craftsman are very different companies.

Bottom line your Craftsman didn't break and more than a few Toro owners on here haven't had theirs break either, so in your mind you think plastic = weak and metal = strong. The reality is that it depends on conditions and type of metal or plastic. Metal is not ideal for very cold enviroments. Plastic is more stable.

But if you like the Ariens, go for it, it's a decent machine but a lot harder to steer for my wife and I.

Just get the Ariens Pro 28 and call it a day. Thats what I did afte r considering the models you are here. 28 inches and a 420 cc for motivation. :)

klennop wrote:
I'm thinking that those machines likely came from Home Depot, where God-only-knows who put them together.  What loose parts, and what upside down or backward parts?  It's very unreasonable to think Ariens is going to have this kind of assembly sloppiness in their factory.

This topic of Ariens vs. Toro regarding steel vs. plastic is very interesting to me, because, I am also going through this almost-ready-to-buy scenario.  I lean toward Ariens, largely based on my experiences at work with their early-90s machines and known reputation.  I also know that Toro has been making snow blowers since 1951 (Ariens since 1960), and I've been truly intrigued with the 1028OXE and impressed by Steve Cebu's You Tube videos. 

I have a natural hesitancy about the plastic control deck parts, plastic Quick Stick parts, and plastic handlebar parts.  Funny thing is that the plastic chute itself and plastic cover over the impeller housing doesn't concern me.  I don't know what to think.  I think the Toro blower is pretty cool looking and operationally slick.  Then there's Ariens, heh heh.  What's a guy to do?  Really, I don't think we can go wrong either way.  Toro isn't stupid so as to put cheap plastic on a machine selling MSRP for $1800.  I'm sure they made sure the control deck, Quick stick, and handlebars are strong.  I think most of us naturally gravitate toward the steel construction, and for good reason.  We just need to believe that these modern plastics can be tough for the job.  One thing about Toro is that for that kind of money, they could at least toss in handwarmers, you know?  This isn't just an Ariens feature!  They're everywhere now.

I find myself intrigued with that Pro 28 with the big 420cc engine, not for bragging rights or for a mythical increase in impeller speed, but simply to be able to properly chew through heavy stuff without slowing down the engine like smaller ones can do.  I can't afford it, though.  I'm really looking at the Platinum 24 at this point.  But the Toro is still pretty cool in its own way, but I can't afford that one, either!  Maybe if I come across a good used Toro 1028OXE, well, now, that could change everything.  I can't wait to see what I end up with.  Maybe Craigslist will turn up something entirely different.

Well I went in to look at them both again today and after looking at them, moving them around, running them, etc. I feel the Ariens is just a better machine and you get more for your money.

So I walked out with the Ariens Platinum 30. I got a smoking deal on it, which is why I pulled the trigger on it today. Plus they threw in a pair of the composite skids.

I am not going to look back from here, just going to look forward at all the snow I am blowing!!

Nice, I'm sure you enjoy your new snowblower.  How did you do with the price?

coasteray wrote:
I am curently using a 32" wide snowblower with a 337cc engine, never felt it lacked power.  We rarely get more than 12" of snow at a time.  Once or twice a year, there are 20-24" blizzards, which is kind of fun since I get to bail out 3 of my neighbors EOD 30" high concrete mix and about 200 feet of sidewalks.  Last year, I had neighbors standing around holding their shovels while watching the snow fly from the chute like a fire hose.  Got thumbs up and cookies the next several days.  Priceless.

I was looking at the Pro 28 a week ago and was tempted by that massive 420cc engine.  Wow!  Talk about putting a hot knife through butter.  Not that I really need another snowblower like Steve_Cebu does,   just Jonesing.  If I can get the blue painted bucket at that orange bucket price, there will be no hesitation.

aa335 wrote:

I need another snowblower, but only if I win one in a raffle. That way my wife could do half the drieveway although with her new job the only time she will have is on the weekend and not every weekend.

The only snowblower I would consider over the Toro at this moment is a Yamaha with tracks and a key start. The cool factor alone would be amazing. Paying $5K for one isn't in the budget, but for free, absolutely!

aa335 wrote:

I really depends on where you live....I lived in an area that only received moderate snow falls I would buy the widest unit that I can fit in my garage. But since we have been getting 20-26" blizzards the last 3 years I would never go more then 26-28" wide. Any wider then that you simply cannot cut through EOD mountains left by DSNY!

I too was looking at the Pro 28 but I need to sell my Toro before spending another 2k!

coasteray wrote:
How funny!  How prophetic, in fact!!  I ended up buying a 2008 Toro 1028LXE just three days later from Craigslist, for only $600.   Great condition.  Tecumseh 358cc, 10-11 horse.   I still love Ariens, but I can't wait to start using my "new" Toro and see how it goes.