Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I realize that this question has been asked.  And I may not have read enough questions/discussions to maybe find an answer.  But I will ask anyway.(I'm new to this forum)
I have a 'slope' that is approximately 1/2 acre in size.  My Toro 21" walk behind mower can do it.  I've only 'smoked' it a couple of times so a 'splash' oil engine can work but I would rather have a full pressure.  It takes me about 1 1/2 hours to do not counting the (2) 15 minute breaks.  I'm 65 but in good shape so it's something I can handle.......at the moment.

I would like to buy a Lawn/Yard tractor to do the job.  The John Deere rep came to the house and said that the X300 series could handle the job with no problems.  The hydrostatic transmission would work nicely he says.  He did suggest that I also have them put fluid in the tires to help with the 'center of gravity' to keep it low to ground?  The cost: $3100 plus tax and delivery.  Retail is $2999 but with the fluid addition and such that brought the price up.

Consumers Reports rated the Craftsman "Yard" tractor LT4000....model #28856..... with a 24 HP B/S engine and 42" deck higher than the X300.  They gave it a Best Buy rating.  I told the Sears rep about John Deere saying I needed fluid in tires.....he responded with 'wheel weights'.  The Craftsman tractor is about 1/2 the cost of the JD.  But..........is it as 'hardy' and strong for my situation?  I don't think Consumers Reports tested on slopes? 

The John Deere describes their transmissions, kinda.  The Craftsman does not.....it only says premium hydrostatic, whatever that is suppose to mean.

Is anyone willing to go out on a limb and recommend one over the other?  The JD does comes with a 4 year warranty while the Craftsman comes with 2.  But at half the price????? I think all things considered the two choices might be close.........except for the transmission????

Thanks

The John Deere x300 uses the Tuff Torq K46 hydro.  It has been known to fail at under 100 hours when used on slopes.  Overheating seem to be the issue.  The K46 is not serviceable.  You have to drop the transmission open the case to change the oil.  If the K46 fails out of warranty you either have to rebuild it yourself or pay John Deere $1,100 to replace it.  They don't repair them....just replace.  The x500 has a much stouter hydro and a foot petal that locks the differential.  It will have better traction but comes at a higher price.  I do not know what hydro Sears uses in the LT4000.  I believe it's made for them by Husqvarna but to Sear's specs.  If it were me I'd look for a used John Deere Garden Tractor.  That will give you a very strong Hydro transmission and likely cost about as much or less than a new Craftsman.  Another option is a geared transmission which may stand up to use on hills better...but the hydros are sweet to use.

Thanks for the info
The warranty is for 4 years so one might be able to assume that the 100 hours would fall into that warranty period?  But with my luck...........
I am somewhat hesitant to go with Sears due to ONE main thing that most people complain about.......SERVICE.  You can get it but it might take 2-4 weeks for someone to show up?

Some folks have suggested I investigate the ExMark?  They have a self propelled walk behind mower with a 26" deck with a 6HP Kawasaki full pressure lube engine.
Anyone want to comment on that?

thanks again

I think that may be a mistake.  That mower weighs 150lbs...twice as much as your current walk-behind mower.  Yes it's self-propelled but in forward only.  When you have to pull it backwards it's a man killer.  Frankly you have to ask yourself how much longer you want to walk that slope.  I'd prefer to ride unless the slopes were so severe as to pose a safety risk by riding.

The John Deere X320 has the K58 transmission, which should hold up better than the K46 in the X300.  Buy from a local John Deere dealer/shop to get better service down the road.

Paul7 wrote:

Ditto 100% - Well said Paul7. Get yourself a nice low hour used or brand new GT and you won't be disappointed. You'll typically get a very strong hydro tranny, 1" axles, a powerful, torquey engine and a 50" + deck width. Sears uses a very deceiving alpha-numeric code to make their tractors sound beefier. Most times the only difference between an LT (lawn tractor) and a so called YT (yard tractor) is a few bells and whistles a better seat, graphic logos, and a bit bigger tires and rims. The engine and tranny are typically the same unless you step up to the GT (garden tractor) line and then you get a real Garden Tractor with differences that matter like a ground engaging transmission, heavier duty frame and axle, a premium engine and generally a much more robust machine. Typically not a heavy duty GT but more of a light to medium duty GT, but a true GT nonetheless.

If you have any kind of hills, plan on pulling heavy loads or just using it as tractor should be used, etc..., I suggest you strongly consider a GT and don't let the LT/YT designations fool you. I've been there before and learned the hard way. Spend your money right the first time and you won't lose - trust me on this one.

FrankMA wrote:
Sooooooooo, FrankMA are you saying the Sears Garden tractor line is a GOOD option?  I ask because the John Deere dealer/rep has back tracked some now.  He NO LONG suggests the X300.  He says I would be better off with the X320, minimum.  In fact he thinks I might should consider the next step up? the X500?  Geez, talk about expensive.  The X320 is $4,000 and probably after all is said and done I will probably spend closer to $4,600 to $5,000.  I think the Garden Tractor line of Sears is a tad cheaper?

Finding a used J.D. is hard to find in my neck of the woods......Northeast Georgia.  And the couple I did see are not much cheaper than a new one???  There were a couple of 'beat up' looking ones too but they were unattractive enough not to even consider.

thanks everyone for chipping in suggestions.

vettebob1 wrote:

Two points:

1) Your JD dealer is likely doing you a favor by recommending the beefier units.  You will have much better service after the sale by buying from a full-fledged dealer - my experience with Craftsman is a LONG wait for parts and/or service, while the grass keeps growing.

2) You mention the used JD's are hard to find and high-priced in your neck of the woods.  That should tell you something about the longevity and reputation of the product.  If you don't like it or want to upgrade down the road, you will likely have higher resale than many other makes - that would probably more than make up for any upfront premium.  Not that they are that much better of a tractor, but perception is often reality, especially in the marketplace.

I have done some more investigating of the Sears products.  It is known that if one needs service you might have to wait.  But there are a lot of satisfied customers for Sears/Craftsman lawn/garden tractors.  The GT6000 is given a 'recommendation' to buy by Consumer Reports.  I can get a GT6000 with a Kohler engine for approximately $1200+ less than a JD X320.  The big question: what brand/model # transmission does the GT use?  I have called Sears and talked with 4 different departments to find out.  You guessed it......no one knows?  I would imagine that it is a Tuff Torq model of some sort but which one.  If it is the K58 then I would think the Sears product would be a potentially good buy.........but without knowing I hesitate to venture forth on it.

I think that Craftsman uses either the Hydro Gear G700 or the G730 in the 2011 GT6000.   The operative word is "think" but if correct it would be a good serviceable transmission with an external spin-on filter.

vettebob1 wrote:

Sears (IMO) offers a decent light to medium duty GT at an affordable price and sometimes price is a major issue. If you have the $$$ I'd go for the JD X500 series as this is just a whole lot more tractor than what Sears can offer. The dealer most likely suggested the X320 because it has a K58 tranny which is more robust than the K46 offered in the X300. It can get kind of pricey as you move up the line and it's easy to start saying: "well the X320 is ONLY $ 1,000.00 more than the X300 and the X500 is ONLY another $ 1000.00 more than the X320" and so on. Next thing you know your into the tractor for $5K+ and you've got a lot of explaining to do with the wife.

The tranny in the Sears GT's is usually a TuffTorq K58 (I believe) or HydroGear G730 but they switch suppliers so often you never know for sure what you're going to end up with. I had a Craftsman YS4500 for about 2 years and it was an alright little tractor but I have hills and I could feel and hear the tranny slowing down over time. Pulling a loaded cart over hilly terrain with a K46 tranny is a killer. The tranny oil tends to overheat and lose its cooling/lubricating abilities and this leads to a failure which generally means a complete replacement as most have not had good luck with the rebuild kits on these low end trannies. Flat terrain is one thing, hills require a more robust tranny which means spending more $$$ up front but the tranny will last. Like anything else, maintenance and using the tractor within its design parameters is the key to a long tractor life.

FrankMA wrote:
I appreciate the replies that have been coming.  It is 'my opinion' if one has the money then Simplicity or John Deere are the ones to buy.  They're rugged and seem to match their engines, transmissions and frame to what the need is.

But......I'm thinking there are more people like me who have to be somewhat frugal on their initial outlays.  Because I have a 'slope' for a yard; I live in the mountains, I have to buy more tractor than I need to be able to get the proper transmission at a price I can afford.  Craftsman is the only one that comes close to what I can afford.  I know some folks will say you get what you pay for and as the old FRAM commercial used to say "Pay me now or Pay me later".  But sometimes being frugal can pay off.  Also as it was stated above.........."you've got a lot of explaining to do with the wife".......I can't explain to her I need a $5,000 or more tractor.

I will possible go to our local Sears Catalog/Franchise store and look at the GT6000; they actually have one.  I just wish I knew what to look for when looking at the tranny; to be able to tell which/what one it is.  If it is the K58 or Hydro G I think I'm OK.  I think I would like for it to be the Hydro G because it has a filter that is accessible and I assume can be serviced easier?  But I noticed at the Hydro web site there are other tranny's that are not as good in the torque so would not want of those lesser ones?  How to tell?

Thanks

Most GT's have "ground engaging" tranny's which means they are capable of using pull behind accessories that dig into the earth. You could also find out what tranny is installed on the tractor and then go to the manufacturers website and look it up. The manufacturer's websites are usually very good at providing all types of relevant information on their product. You may have to actually poke around the housing of the tranny to find out who the manufacturer is if the store cannot provide this information. That in itself is a red flag for me which is why it's often better to buy from a dealer.

The Craftsman GT's are a really good bang for your hard earned buck and are very capable machines. They may not have the fit and finish of something more expensive but they can and will get the job done. Buy what you can afford to buy and later on down the line you can always upgrade if you have a few extra bucks. You may decide that the Craftsman fits your needs just fine. I bought my WH 522xi used for the price of a new Craftsman GT. I was seriously considering the Craftsman when I came across the 522xi on CL and scooped it up - I had always wanted a Wheel Horse and had looked hard for a decent 520H but just could not seem to find a good one, then I came across the 522xi and that was it. Buying used is always a good option to consider as well.

I went to the Sears Catalog/Franchise store and looked at the GT6000.
You all are right....it does not have the fit and finish of a John Deere or other high end tractor.
But it DOES HAVE the Hydro Gear G7 tranny !!!
And all in all it was pretty well put together for what it is.
I am a fan of Kohler motors.... that is a plus.  Even though I have had no problems with any B/S motor as long as it was an Intek or better.
Now comes the hard part.......is Sears willing to deal?  or am I willing to part with the money.

Thanks to all


Oh, I measured my slope......It appears to be mostly a tad under the 15 degrees that is quoted as not to go over.
But...........I have a small section that approaches 20 degrees (maybe).  DO ANY OF YOU THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM?

Go for it! The price is right (got to keep the peace), it will serve your needs (it does have to really work!) and it's a REAL GT (YEAH) !!!!!

Like I said before, these are great bang for your buck tractors. Sears (Craftsman) does some good things with trying to lower their cost and price to the consumer and the Craftsman GT line up is one of them (can't say that for everything...). I too, like the G730 HydroGear Tranny as it has the replacable FULL SIZE filter - bonus points in my book! I thiink Sears has a "friends and family" night deal every so often where you get an extra 10% off for whatever you buy that night. If you can line that up with a special discount or sales promotion, you could probably score a GT6K for less than $ 2,800.00.

If you want a serious, tough, garden tractor, go used. Forget the hydrostatic. You can pick up a nice (60's or 70's) WH, Bolens, Case, Ingersoll, Sears Suburban, or Cub Cadet with a gear transmission (or no trans at all in the Case and Ingersoll, they're hydraulic drive) for under 1,000, often under $500 if you're willing to do a bit more work. If it's not too badly rusted you can repower one with a bad engine ($1500) and it'll be good for another 20-30 years. They're all capable of ground engaging and have a solid steel frame. Won't be as pretty or have a warranty but it will be able to pull your next door neighbors brand new one to the junkyard in 10 years - and the one he buys to replace that one. Check out mytractorforum.com when you get a chance.