Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Well I was finally able to get some video of my blower in action.  Went out to our family cottage and one of my neighbors was kind enough to operate the camera for me.
I'm pretty satisfied with the way it performs after the repower and other modifications to the impeller blades and housing. I had also increased the auger drive pulley size from
the stock 2 3/4" to 3 1/4". Powered chute controls work great.  I also came up with a way to use the old deflector control lever to operate the auger engage/ disengage.
So now I can pull on the lever engage the blower and not have to keep the right handle held down all the time.  It's so much easier to use the chute control joystick and hold on
to the blower.  I believe that it is also easier on the belt with fewer engage and disengage cycles.

I think it is still a little underpowered.  It could probably use a 13hp instead of the 11hp.  That 32" bucket takes in a lot of snow.  I'd also like to increase the auger drive pulley
to a 3 1/2" just to see what happens.  The one issue or component I still haven't come to a conclusion about is the impeller (14").  It has 6 blades, it's the only six bladed impeller I've
ever seen.  A lot of the newer blowers and the Honda's have only three blades.  I know how well the Honda's perform and I've watched a couple videos of the Ariens Compact 22
going through 14, 16" inches of light new snow without a problem.  So I've been wondering if six blades is just over kill and a lot of extra mass and weight to be turning. Once you get them
spinning I guess inertia is on your side.  But if three works well, and Honda first proved that they do.  Then what is the advantage of 4 or 6, just don't know.  One thing I do know is that.
The blade tip to housing clearance is a really important factor in blower performance. As is the impeller RPM.

Just a little information about the video.   In the first section the depth was about 18" deep in the plow roll of pile. And around 14 or 15" deep everywhere else. The snow was about three day old.
Had a bottom layer (2") of heavier stuff.  It had settled and was somewhat compacted and dense.  Not light power by any means but also not high in moisture and wet heavy.

Nice!  Real nice!  I'd say that the 11hp is providing plenty of power.  If that snow went any higher small planes might be in danger.  Did you install a Clarence Impeller kit?  Also does the bucket weight provide a noticeable difference.

Great Vid!

Wow, that throws great just like it is.  I wonder if you're not better off with six blades, because as you said, more inertia to keep the speed up and each blade takes a smaller bite. So in general that configuration works less hard to get the same amount of work done. Nice job.

Cheers

I'm jealous!  Can you swing out over to New Hampshire and do the same mod on my Ariens 24? Hell, let's add a turbo the next time around!

Paul7 wrote:
Thanks for your comment.  The 11hp does do really well.  As I posted another time if the 1st gear speed of the Ariens was just a little bit slower.  It would match the blower output in deep snow just perfectly.
And I wouldn't have to sometimes pause a little to let the blower clear itself. That's why hydro drives are so nice.
My comment about a 13hp was me thinking about raising the auger shaft speed a little more with a still larger pulley.  That would increase the blower output and bring it more inline with my slowest forward speed.  But having said that the depth of snow and the type of snow plays a big factor as well.  Again the beauty of a hydro drive is that it allows you to match your forward speed with you blower thruput
in any, and all types of snow condition.  Which is how you can achieve maximum blower performance and snow clearing. In my opinion.
Had to laugh about the small planes.
I didn't put an impeller kit on it.  I extended the length of the impeller blades by laying on beads of weld to the blade tips.  I knew how much length I needed to add.  So I made a reference mark on the blades.  Then added on enough weld. Then ground off the excess to get me to the right length and shape.  Sounds like a lot of work, but I think it only took about an hour or so. That is once you have the impeller assembly out on a bench.
The impeller kit would work just as well.
I have never run the blower without the weights so I really can't say if it makes a noticeable difference.  I'm sure though that without the weights the front end would be light.  As the new engine sits further back than the original.  Which was already somewhat behind the axle.

Awsome Snowblower !!!  Great job with all custom fabrications! 

If that was my snow blower,  I'd violate that machine like an expired parking meter.    

Wouldn't matter if Mother Nature dumped two inches or two feet....I'd be using that beast for sure.

Nice job!

Looks great and does a great job moving the snow.  I to modified my impeller by welding up the edge and grinding it to decrease the clearance I set the clearance on my impeller at 1/16" and it pumps out snow and slush like a fire hose on my repowered 1985 Snapper 24" blower.

carlb wrote:
I've thought of that as well.  However, rather than build up the impeller blades, I'd probably lean toward manufacturing a stainless steel liner to fit inside the impeller housing.  If you look at most machines impeller housings, that's where the wear is taking place.   End of driveway gravel is the cause and in due course, will wear a fair amount away from the housing.  A nice hard piece of SS cut to length and correctly curved to spring itself inside the housing would slip in relatively easily.  Beveled edges and pre-drilled, counter sunk holes would make it easy to install and secure it.   If and when that one wears out, just replace with an insert or required thickness to maintain desired clearance. 

Borat - would using the same type of plastic that lines your chute as an insert instead of stainless steel be feasible. 

borat wrote:
Actually I did line the impeller housing, and the blower housing with Stainless. Because your right the impeller housing is constantly getting scoured.  Even with the new lining though I still had
to much clearance between the blades and the new stainless liner. I secured both of the pieces of stainless to the housing by plug welding it in place from the back side. 

My only concern with putting a Stainless Steel liner in is, that sit will trap snow or salt behind the liner and rust out the original impeller housing .

carlb wrote:
if you repaint the inside of the impeller housing with a few coats of good quality paint before putting the liner in, it won't matter if snow/moisture get's behind it.   Chance are the machine will be crapped out well before it rusts through.


jrtrebor: 

The lining I'm talking about would be much thicker.  Probably 1/8"  to 3/16" depending on clearance between impeller blade and impeller housing.  Hence no need to build up the impeller blades.

Nice work on your project by the way!

carlb wrote:
Before I put in the impeller lining.  I gave the housing 3 good coats of red oxide primer.  I also used automotive Seam Sealer between the liner and the housing.  I laid down a bead so that when the liner
was put in, there would be a seal formed around the entire edge of the stainless liner.  When it was clamped some of the Sealer oozed out from between the liner and housing which was what I wanted to see.
I wanted to make sure that water didn't get trapped between the housing and liner.  Not because I was worried about rust forming. I was concerned about trapped water freezing and buckling the liner.
Popping it up a little at some place.  Creating a little bulge or high spot, that would be a really bad problem.  If it happened and the impeller blades started rubbing and scraping on the liner.  Or worst case, the impeller could get wedged in the housing.  That would not be good.
I appreciated everyone's comments.

jrtrebor wrote:
It seems to move snow well and throw a good distance without signs of strain.  11 HP seems more than adequate, I think.  Perhaps on days of wet snow, the extra power would make a difference.

Did you put on a new chute?  It seems quite tall.

aa335 wrote:
The 11hp is a very adequate engine. Don't want to sound like I am dissatisfied with the blowers performance. It's the Tim Taylor syndrome.

The chute itself is stock.  But I did make a longer flatter deflector for it.  The stock deflector was the old curved type. I think the old style deflector actually had a better transition between the chute and the deflector with it's curved shape. The flow of snow traveled along more of a sweeping curve as it changed from a somewhat vertical direction to a sometimes more horizontal direction..  The flatter type deflectors cause the snow to change direction at rather sharp angles.  The snow comes up the chute and then just kind of bangs into the the deflector to change direction. (Unless the deflector is in the straight up position). Maybe I'll have to try and build a two piece deflector like I have seen on some other blowers. I believe rubinews Yamaha YS928J has a two piece deflector.

Sometimes you do sidewalks and don't need the throwing distance, you just need to put the snow on the side nearby.

The 2 stage deflector on those Yamaha are nice.  It's the best of the round and flat chute.  Some of the dedicated sidewalk snowblower have really tall chutes and multi-stage deflector that can put snow practically right next to the snowblower.

aa335 wrote:
Your right, the Street Dept here has one of those.  It almost shoots the snow straight down at the ground.  It looks like it has maybe 5 or 6 segments.
Maybe I'll to try mating up my old deflector with the current one I'm using.
Oh good, another project.  Something else to lie in bed and think about. 
The Yamaha really does look like the snow would have a nice smooth flow route regardless of the position of the deflector.
No angles, just a variable degree curve.

     Great video of a great snow cannon.

 

>>>change the stock 2 3/4" to 3 1/4".

 

Are your final values: augers 1300, impeller 4762?

I think that’s with 14 inch impeller and rakes.

 

>>>That 32" bucket takes in a lot of snow.

 

I think the intake is 34.5 not 32.  Is that correct?   That’s what is listed for a 9240084 which was a surprise.

 

>>>I'd also like to increase the auger drive pulley  to a 3 1/2" just to see what happens.

Confused by this.  I would think you want a smaller diameter or increase the diameter of the lower pulley for slower speed.  I think that was the rub, having to feather the drive clutch for big loads.  The wide bucket is a drawback in tough snow for a slightly fast first speed.  The Honda hydro big – huge – advantage is having a super slow for some tough spots.  It’s certainly more comfortable to change the Honda speed rather than feather, wait, then proceed.  All in all not a killer but a very nice advantage for big snows if you have lots of rough spots in your area (which I do).    (There was a mention of smaller wheels but the wheel size on those models was great 16”.  BTW the 6 inch wide is very nice but depends on your area.  You’ve got diff so no big deal going bigger).  

 

>>>The one issue or component I still haven't come to a conclusion about is the impeller (14").  It has 6 blades, it's the only six bladed impeller I've ever seen. 

   Ariens put those on 10-13hp pro machines for a few years but dropped them.  I’ve had a couple and could not find any apparent advantage.  My guess is and it’s only a guess is they might be slightly better in throughput but not distance.  I tried comparing a 1028 4 blade to a 1028 6 blade and did not see any real difference but it was not a great comparison.  Certainly nothing stood out between the two.

 

>>>A lot of the newer blowers and the Honda's have only three blades. 

   So far from my evaluations I think the Honda advantages are in the higher speeds of augers and impellers AND the engine.  There is less sag in the Honda compared to the Tecumseh’s.  They can keep  the revs up with better high end torque.  You’re up there with impeller speed over a Honda, rake speed that is close and an engine that’s close or possibly as good.  The video seems to at least match or better a Honda 1132.  

   The Honda has three blades and they are small.  They are probably that way to work with the higher rake speed to get snow out quickly by being less mass.  If you put on an Ariens 4 blade I’d bet you would either see no difference or a very slight improvement in distance and if any probably too slight to measure.

 

   You posted a picture of an older 924 speed and attachment dash section which you might install on your machine.  That style at least for me is fantastic.  Your auger hand is free and it makes controlling the machine much easier.  It’s big and right there on the dash so very convenient.  It would be tough to meld that into the 084 dash but would be nice.

trouts2 Thanks for all your comments.

>>> Are your final values: augers 1300, impeller 4762?

I think that’s with 14 inch impeller and rakes.

Yes, that's is right at what I had calculated with the 14" impeller.

>>>I think the intake is 34.5 not 32.  Is that correct?   That’s what is listed for a 9240084 which was a surprise.

I just went out and measured the bucket opening at the top and bottom at 33"

>>>I'd also like to increase the auger drive pulley  to a 3 1/2" just to see what happens.  Confused by this.  I would think you want a smaller diameter or increase the diameter of the lower pulley for slower speed.  I think that was the rub, having to feather the drive clutch for big loads.

My thinking was that if I could increase the thruput a little more by increasing the auger and impeller speeds. Maybe that would match up with the forward speed in first gear. (which is just a tad to fast in certain snow type conditions). But as you know increasing the thruput by using a larger pulley will pull more power out of the engine. I think with a 13hp it wouldn't be a problem.  But I may already be at the border with the 3 1/4" pulley and the 11hp.  Using a 32" bucket.  I agree, having a hydro and being able to match the forward speed with the snow type/depth and the thruput is the beauty of the hydros.

Matching the forward speed with the blower capacity is what clearing capacity and efficiency is all about.  Keeping the rpm and power up and constant.

The big tires do perform well.  I've crawled out of some pretty deep holes almost dragging the bucket.

Thanks for your input on the impellers.  I just figured that as long as you can keep that big impeller spinning at a good rate.  The six blades are probably a little more efficient than fewer blades. Less weight on each blade and probably a little more of a fan effect at discharge.

I to, love the old dual control levers on the older Ariens. They are strong, easy to operate and when they are in a position you know and can feel it.

Since that post I have made a modification to the auger engage setup.  I reinstalled and shortened the old cable that used to move the deflector and was controlled by a handle on the left side of the dash.  I bent a hook on the end of the solid stainless wire inside the cable.  I then hooked the hook onto the chain above the spring that controls the auger engage levers.  Tightened up the fiction nut on the control lever on the dash.  So now I can pull back on the control lever to engage the blower and my left hand is free.  It works get, and I love having my left hand free to control the blower and operated the joystick for the chute.

I may this summer still see if there is a way to incorporate the older handles.  But for now the setup is a big improvement.

>>>I'd also like to increase the auger drive pulley  to a 3 1/2" just to see what happens. 

Sorry, I read that as drive pulley, not auger drive pulley.. 

I think you once mentioned a change for the drive pulley for a slower forward would cause a slower reverse which was already slow.  

You could have put on a smaller drive pulley and cut another slot for an added reverse position or shifted the speed set making 2 first, changed the link rod length and sacraficed the top speed.  I'm sure you thought of these already.  Why did you eliminate them?

I think the only one around who would know about the tradeoffs for 4 vs 6 blades in big machines is Snowmann.  He can probalby walk over to a fililng cabinet and pull out old engineering docs on that.

trouts2

>>>You could have put on a smaller drive pulley and cut another slot for an added reverse position or shifted the speed set making 2 first, changed the link rod length and sacraficed the top speed.  I'm sure you thought of these already.  Why did you eliminate them?

I have actually cut the reverse slot longer.  And adjusted the link rod length. The friction disk can't slid any further into reverse without  the linkage arm hitting the side
of the housing.  I have thought about flipping the fiction disk over which would move it about 1/2 to 3/4" further into the reverse range. I have a spare tractor section that I try things on before making changes to the 1032 but haven't tried that out yet.  I've also thought about just finding a 28" blower housing and doing the same modification to it that I've done to the 32" housing. I wish Ariens made a 30" housing.  But I don't think they do.  That would be a perfect size.

That would be great if Snowmann had access to that type of information.  I'd really be interested to hear what he had to say.

I'm hoping to someday take what I've learned from messing with a walk behind and scale it up to design and build a front truck or 4wheel drive blower.
In the 5 to 6' width range. Taking two 32 or 36" blowers removing all of the drive train, handle bars etc. Mounting the blowers together side by side and mounting them
to a snowplow A Frame.  The weight of the two blowers including engines would be very close to the same weight of a 7 1/2" plow blade. Controlling them from the
cab would be quite a an interesting project to tackle. But what a great EOD machine you'd have. You'd pick up power by not having to drive the traction system. Have to beef up the housing a bit but I think it would be do able?? 

I saw a video of someone who did the same type of thing and hung the two blowers from the front of a Toro Groundsmaster I think it was.  Both of the blowers were powered by the tractor and both blowers were single stage tractor types. It did a great job in moving deep snow. And he was all over the place with the Toro.
Or how about mounting one on the front of a Zero Turn mower. I've seen that done, talk about maneuverability. I'm getting carried away.
It's probably more of one of those, maybe someday projects. 

"Since that post I have made a modification to the auger engage setup.  I reinstalled and shortened the old cable that used to move the deflector and was controlled by a handle on the left side of the dash.  I bent a hook on the end of the solid stainless wire inside the cable.  I then hooked the hook onto the chain above the spring that controls the auger engage levers.  Tightened up the fiction nut on the control lever on the dash.  So now I can pull back on the control lever to engage the blower and my left hand is free.  It works get, and I love having my left hand free to control the blower and operated the joystick for the chute."

How about some pictures of your setup for the controls. You can't see them up close in the video.  Does that mean that your unit didn't have the automatic locking of the auger lever when you hold down the drive lever? I think your setup may be better though since they now operate independently? Was it difficult to install?

Cheers

jrtrebor wrote:

Having used a 32" snowblower the last 3 years,  I wouldn't want to go any wider and heavier for a walkbehind snowblower in a typical residential setting.  Not that would deter you, but it just takes too much man handling to be enjoyable, unless you're training to be a sumo wrestler.  The wider bucket just seems to amplify all surface imperfections and snag on pavement cracks that makes me slow down ground speed so that I can keep it going straight. 

It would be an interesting project for sure.  I would anticipate you need a heavier tractor section behind the bucket and some kind of power assist in turning the beast.

There was a mistake in one of my post.
 
" It works get, and I love having my left hand free to control the blower and operated the joystick for the chute".

It should have said "my right hand free" not left.

aa335
Sorry about that, I was talking about so many different things.  I wasn't thinking about using two blowers for a walk behind.  They would be used on some type of garden tractor or on the front of a
4 wheel drive vehicle.
I agree, a 32" walk behind is more than enough to handle.  Sometimes I'm not sure who's in control, me or the blower.

GtWtNorth
I did/do have the "automatic locking of the auger lever when you hold down the drive lever" But it can be kind of a pain.  I got spoiled by the controls on the old Ariens I had.

jrtrebor wrote:
I saw the video.  You don't need to increase anything.  The last thing you need is more power.  I saw one tree that was already knocked over...it probably couldn't stand up to the force of the snow you were hitting it with. 

Put down your wrenches, back away from your snow cannon, and lets save some trees. lol.

Paul7 wrote:
I got a good laugh out of that. Thanks!

jrtrebor - thanks for the photos, nice job as usual. Since I don't have the chute control on mine to re-purpose,  I'll keep my eye open for one of the older style machines that I can get the controls from.Looking at the photos gave me another idea. Since you have a battery aboard, you may be able to use a 12V solenoid & switch to activate the arm of the auger clutch instead of using the lever & cable?

Anyway, I agree with Paul7, take it easy on mother nature.

Cheers