Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Since I have installed a shut-off valve in the gas line of my Toro 421, I had a question about how best to use it.

If it is an ethanol problem, I shouldn't have to worry since I don't use ethanol.
If it is not ethanol related and is a manufacturing defect with the float needle, my shut-off valve should prevent the flooding of either my garage floor or the crankcase of the engine.
Bear with me.
Would it be better to run the machine after I close off the gas supply until it dies?
If I do that, the needle and seat won't be immersed in gasoline for days at a time which could be accelerating the failure of the plating on the needle.
As you have probably figured out, it's been a long winter for me and I spend too much time thinking.

Gas in carb with the fuel shutoff valve closed is fine.  If it does leak, it will leak a little bit until it draws a vacuum.  Since the valve is closed, there's no vacuum release or fuel pressure to let it continue to leak. 

aa335:
I'm not concerned about the gas in the float bowl leaking, but about the gas in the float bowl causing more corrosion of the float needle.
If I run the engine "out of gas" with the shut-off valve closed, the float needle will be exposed to the air and not soaking in the gas.

I'm not aware of plating breaking down due to exposure to air.  Exposure to solvents such as gasoline and ethanol probably is more corrosive.

That was what I was thinking.
By running the engine out of gas after I close the shut-off valve, I would hope I have removed the needle and seat form any further contact with the gasoline..
Easy enough to do and I don't see where it could do any harm.

On the subject of the plating breaking down, I wonder if the needle is vibrating against the seat and contributing to the failure.
The machine does have some vibration.

If there's an issue with plating, it's likely due to the manufacturing process.  I find it extremely difficult to believe that ethanol nor gasoline will have any effect on the plating.  If the plating is flaking off, it will do so regardless of whether the float needle is immersed in alcohol/fuel.  If you're that concerned, it would be just as easy to get a new needle and put it in.  

I drain the carbs  and fuel tanks at the end of the season.  During the winter, I just leave them with fuel in them.  I haven't yet installed a fuel valve on the Toro.  The 221 isn't leaking so I'm not worried about it.  I will put a fuel valve on in due course simply because it's convenient to have.

borat wrote:
If they were available, I might just do that, but keep in mind the Toro 421 has the Loncin engine and I don't think I can just stop by and pick one up.

I'd suspect that there's nothing special with the float needle valve and is probably readily available from anyplace that sells cab jets etc.  You could pull the needle valve and take it to a motorcycle shop or other vendor that sells small carb parts to see if they have anything like it.  Better yet, pull the float needle and look at it under a magnifying glass to see if it's defective.   

borat wrote:
I think since I have the fuel leaking on the garage floor possibility taken care of with the shut-off valve, I think I'll just wait and see how Toro handles the situation.

Yes, I could remove the needle and run around town hoping to find a replacement that may or may not fit. No thanks.
My looking at it under a magnifying glass probably wouldn't tell me a thing unless the plating was actually flaking off.
Chances are the plating looks fine right up until the time it actually fails. Knowing my luck,I would probably start that failure by messing with things.
With any luck, I won't have to worry about in 6 weeks. Might even be lucky enough to not need to use the machine again this winter.

CharlesW,

Since you have the shutoff valve, I wouldn't worry about it too much, just wait until Toro comes up with a fix for it.

I put shut off valves on all my OPE and run them dry after each use. Truth be told I don't believe you get all the fuel out of the carb even under these circumstances. I offer as proof of this the fact that after running my Tec. powered 2 stage dry after shutting the fuel valve and playing with the choke as it starts to die and using the primer bulb etc. pushing up on the spring loaded drain pin will still produce what I estimate as 1-2 tea spoons of fuel. The same holds true on my Honda GX powered Pressure washer. There is a drain screw at the bottom of the carb bowl set in at an angle which if loosened will also yield about 1 tea spoon of fuel.

Marc

Marc,

   Thanks for posting that picture of the 2450 shutoff install.  It just did not occur to me to do that.  Got it in yesterday.

trouts2 wrote:

My Pleasure-Did you put one in a 2450 or one of the newer 221or421 units?

Marc

trouts2wrote:
Thanks for posting that picture of the 2450 shutoff install.  It just did not occur to me to do that.  Got it in yesterday.




mml4 wrote:
The picture referred to looks almost exactly like my installation on my 421.
Evidently the Toro SS units share some body panels.
The access actually looks like it might have been intended as a location for a shut off valve which they decided not to use.

When and WHY did they stop putting shutoff valves on blowers?  My 30 year old JD826 has it, and so does my new Honda 928.  I consider them essential and should be mandatory.

Dr_Woof wrote:
I think one reason is that very few people actually use them.
I use the one on my old MTD/Dayton when storing it, but didn't use it regularly during the season, maybe 1/2 the time.

The bigger reason is probably money.
If the mfg. pays as little as a buck or two for the extra cost of installing the shut off, (And I think that would be cheap, considering the cost of parts and the added labor step), and they sell 100,000 machines, that extra $100,000 or $200,000 would almost pay some executives bonus for the year.

Well...I replaced a steel shutoff valve on my daughters MTD blower and it only cost a couple bucks or so for a plastic replacement.  The steel valve was just a hunk of rust at that point (bottom of the tank - where all the water collects).  Given that a plastic valve is probably cheaper to make than a steel valve, and will not rust, I thinkc it speaks to the intelligence of some of the engineers who design these things.

mml4 wrote:

   The filter went in a "new" never used 2002 2450 I picked up a few months ago.  That cutout was perfect.   The machine has a slight gas leak which I never noticed until I put the machine in the porch.  I called Toro Toro and found it was on the tank recall list.  I checked with the local dealer and will get a new tank installed when the weather turns. 

I'm usually working on two stages and always looking to plant a shutoff or filter.  Last year at the beginning of the season I picked up a 25 pack of the red inline Briggs filters.  I've only planted a handfull though.  There's no room on many machines.