Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Given Situation: Engine has been fully warmed up and the throttle is set to fast.   

Scenario: My Honda snowblower surges when it comes out of the load.  If I blow the snow with the throttle at either low or medium speed then the engine does not surge when the load is light but when the throttle is set to fast, the engine will surge when the load is low or minimum.  As soon as it gets a full load, no surging.   I took the blower to the dealer today (since no snow for few days and the wait is not too long) as I felt this was not right.  I had this problem since it was brand new in Dec 2010.  I will let you know what the fix is or if this is normal.  Any similar experiences from Honda snowblower owners?

The 1132 at work has done this since new.  The 1132 has a seperat choke knob. If I pull the knob out just a touch it stops the surge. Still blows the same either way.  Never noticed it on my 928.  I will listen tomorrow and see if it does it.

MN_Runner wrote:

I noticed my 1132 (new) would occasionally as it would come out of a heavy pile of snow. It settled in after a few seconds. Can't say it did it consistently or in any way that I would say is a problem. At least yet.

that is the exact description of how my blower behaves coming off a heavy load.  It settles down but it is kind of annoying.

I would say the engine is running to lean.Thats 1 good thing about the old tecumseh and brigs adjustable carbs.You can tune that sort of thing out of them on a case by case basis.Are the Hondas adjustable at all? or do they have fixed jetting?

relics wrote:
That's what I thought too.  I heard that Honda have different jets installed depending on the area altitude. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Maybe the machine is annoyed and trying to tell you to stop slacking around and feed it some more snow.  

I don't have the same surging issue with my 1132.  But it does spool up aggressively when it senses heavy load. 

I thought you be busy waltzing with your 441Q and saving your HS1132 for a really big snow storm (like a storm of the century).  Trust you are having fun with 2' of  snow.

aa335 wrote:

High altitude jets are available through Honda distribtutors. These are fixed jets that are sized so the engine runs richer. The only other alternative is to use a jet ream and open up the one you have. It was a standard practice on the pre fuel injection Kehin carbureted Harleys. It sounds a lot more complicated than it is. The trick is to have a complete set of jet reams and the pita is to have the discipline to go up one size at a time taking out the jet and reinstalling it until you find the sweet spot.With a snow blower you would want to do it when the temperature is approximately that at which you use the machine. You wouldn't want to jet the carb in July for use in January.

At best it still would be an average and unless the engine is so lean it is back firing I think you should just learn to live with it.  

Marc

MN_Runner wrote:
Nope.  Big boy HS1132 is coming out to play today, it is taking care of two foot drifts and EOD, plus the neighbor's too, and 250' of sidewalk to the park.  The 421QE is taking care of the my walkways.  And the HS621 is taking care of the my sidewalks.  Woo Hoo!  :)

aa335 wrote:
Bonus points - you get to use all your toys in one storm!!!!

The altitude kit is to perform the opposite.   As altitude increases, it causes the mixture to run too rich thus the requirement for smaller jets at altitude to lean it out.  An altitude kit would make the jetting worse in an already lean mixture.   Here's an interesting link:


http://www.iwt.com.au/mikunicarb.htm

FrankMA wrote:
Unfortunately, the wind is still blowing so strong and the plow hasn't come around yet.  I'd have to wait until this afternoon.

borat wrote:

My bad- I had a Honda powered pressure washer I bought off the net that back fired badlly when new. It appears I completely misunderstood the vendors explanation when I called to complain.

Marc

Today I used both the work 1132 and my personal 928 and the 1132 does it consistently.  My 928 is smooth as can be with no surge once warm.

I will let you guys know what the fix is once I get a call from my Honda dealer.  I hope they will replace the carburator, which I suspect is the culprit.

Your low speed jet is plugged....

   The engine is not getting enough fuel at that (governed ) throttle  setting through the low speed jet...   The engine starts to drop in rpm, the engine  responds by opening the throttle to maintain rpm,   the high speed or main jet comes on-line and overspeeds past the desired maintained speed  since the unit is under no load,  The engine trys to drop the rpm by closing the throttle some....  Then the cycle starts all over again...

Find your low speed jet and clean it,  it's only partly plugged..

Good Luck,

Friiy

dear friiy,

I am not going to touch the snowblower since I have 2 years and 10 months left on the warranty.  The dealer was cleaning the carb and adjusting the governor.  Obviously it is not fixed so I have a feeling they are going to replace the carb and governor.  Surges between the load are a sign of carb/governor issue.  I am a little irritated with the problem since I had this from the begining - I wish I knew better.

The issue was a defective carburator so the dealer replaced it with a new one.  The problem gone.

MN_Runner wrote:

Good to know. If I have a consistent problem, I'll be bugging the dealer.

The dealer billed Honda $94.18 for a new carburetor ($48.10) + $37.50 for labor + $4.81 (Envir Fees) + $3.77 (MN Tax).  Not sure how some people are saying that they are getting billed for $400 doing similar work - not sure if people are getting screwed or they are not telling the truth.

They can get away with shafting John Q. Public because he, more often than not, doesn't know any better. 

It's not like Honda's warranty department isn't aware of what repairs cost.

LOL ----  Dealer ordered new carb. + jet,   put carb on shelf,   ,  put a new jet in your carb. with bigger number stamped on it., showed you bill he sent to Honda.  

--- Friiy

Do you think everyone is that dishonest?  Sounds like you have done this before.

     Have you seen how ladys are treated at Midas, FireStone, PepBoys and other places?   

     Does the Monster Cable the salesmen at  Best Buy tries to sell you ( that costs $75 dollars), does it  put out a "Better Digital Signal"?----------   Digital is there or it isn't...

   Timeshares are worth the money,  The salesman said so.....

    Do you shop around when you go to a Auto dealer?,   They all should cost the same right?

   And if you leave your car unlocked in a Walmart parking , lot your wallet will still be on the seat when you get back....

  Watch your back, ask questions and never be taken advantage of ......

Friiy

    

if my blower was out of warranty then it is a different story.  I enjoy fixing my own stuff after the warranty is over just like my car or appliances.    I find that people I hang around are honest and trustworthy.  I can diagree with Borat and AA335 but I do see genuine honesty in them.  I would ask trouts to defend them in a heart beat.

Yeah,  as a dealer for 12  or so years for Honda...I saw a lot of NEW carbs  (so the customer said)  with rust damage or corrosion on the aluminum tower...

"...But the other shop put a new carb on it a few months ago,  What do you mean it isn't new?"

Friiy

friiy,

my blower is fixed so i am fine.  do you want me to go to the dealer (waste a gallon on gas and my time) and ask them for an old carburetor so I can keep if as a momento.  even if it were true, what do you want me to do - as there was no charge to me.  should I protest at the dealer until they UNEQUIVOCALLY show me the proof. 

no no no....

Friiy

If and when I bring my vehicles (don't do cars/trucks) to a repair shop for maintenance such as timing belt and pulleys, I advise them that I want to see the old parts before I pay the bill. 

Friiy's point is that, the dealer didn't do you any favours.   Had you been paying out of your pocket, you would have seen the $400.00 charge.  Dealers know they can't hoodwink the manufacturers for more money to do a particular job.  That stuff is basically flat rate for parts and time.  However, they can and probably did bill Honda for a carb/labour and likely only changed or opened up the jet in your original carb.   That way, they put in a $2.00 jet and bill Honda for the full price of a carb, pocketing that money.  It's nothing new.  Actually, I wouldn't doubt that it's pretty much common practice at a lot of dealerships.

friiy and borat,

you are correct - what do you want me to do?

MN_Runner wrote:

Sounds to me like folks just makin' conversation.

MN_Runner wrote:
Keep $400.00 on hand for when the warranty expires.  

borat wrote:
Would you know it came off your car/truck or from a box of old crap they keep in the back for people who ask to see the "old parts"?  If they slapped some timing belt on the counter, pretty sure I wouldn't know if it came off my car or  some other vehicle.

Borat is a smart man.  He would mark the timing belt before he goes to the dealer so he can verified that it was changed. 

MN_Runner wrote:
A few years ago "60 Minutes", I believe, did an undercover type show on auto repair shops.  If I recall they purposefully made a minor elementary mis-adjustment to the engine...and they did secretly mark parts, and had a young women take the car in.  Only like one shop out of ten said that it was just a simple adjustment.  The rest quickly did the adjustment but then went on to replace, or claim to replace, all kinds of things.  Struts, calipers, rotors, seals, exhausts, and other gismos. 

You might recall that Sears Auto paid a 20 million dollar fine to settle state filed fraud charges. 

Paul7 wrote:
There are a lot of videos about that on youtube.  I think it was Jiffy Lube and a lot of places like that.  They did the same thing with computers too.  Disconnected the cable between the motherboard and hard drive and took them in to places to be fixed.

OPE or Auto are not the only place people get taken. There are a lot of organized churches (any form of organized religion) which can take people for a ride.  There are many churches that are there truly to serve and help.  OPE and auto dealers are the same, there are honest and dishonest people just like anywhere in our society.

After the carburetor replacement, my engine runs much smoother and quieter.  So it was a good fix whether the dealer used a $2 part or $50 part.  Replacing a jet inside the carburetor is just as much as work (maybe more) then simply replacing the carb.

"Replacing a jet inside the carburetor is just as much as work (maybe more) then simply replacing the carb."

Not necessarily. 

On most OPE engines, all you need to do is pull the float bowl, unscrew the main jet and replace with another.  To remove the carb, you have to disconnect the throttle linkage, and governor linkage.  Then you need to remove the bolts/nuts that attach the carb to the engine.  Often that requires, cowling to be removed to get at the screws and linkages.  From my experience, with the machine in it's maintenance position, a jet change is relatively easy.  

 

My guess is the low speed jet was plugged,  the only thing you have to do to change that is unscrew the Low speed throttle stop then pop out the plastic jet that sits under it . 

You know which one Borat---  the  plastic one that has the o-ring on it that snaps in verticaly from the top of the  carb.   In the shop,  I saw sometimes the carb body chips off a piece of the o-ring and plugs the jet when it is installed without a fuel system type lube like petro jelly or STP   (Don't laugh---  great lube for fuel components during assembly, melts off after install)...

Friiy

friiy wrote:

I was doing lots of maintenance on about 4 or 5 of my OPE engines, and I looked in the tank of the Honda and the fuel pickup at the bottom is poking out of the gas. I'll have to try it again if we get another storm in the next 4 weeks (Winter is closer to the end than the beginning here), but I'll bet that's it.