Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

All of us that have new snowthrowers this year need to keep in mind that certain conditions/restrictions may apply to keep the warranty active. Be sure to read the manuals that came with the equipment. (For example: SnowRemovers new blower now only has a 45 day warranty, rather than the 2 year that came with it because of their warranty restrictions) Just a heads up for us "Newbies"!

Hi Walt,

Are you referring to the clause that states if you use your snowblower in a commercial capacity, then the warranty is valid for only 45 days?  Aside from that, I just discovered that my polypropylene chute, chute deflector, and impeller housing have a warranty period of 5 years.  Glad I don't have to worry about those parts.

Hey Richie,

That's exactly what I'm talking about    .  You also lose your starting guarantee

Walt

Walt/Richie,

Just to be clear, my warranty is valid for only 45 days because I accepted payment for clearing my neighbors driveway?

Lousy hot cocoa ruined my warranty!

--SnowRemover

Hi Walt,

Yes, I read the "starting" guarantee, but the way I read it, it appeared to me that only Toro snowblowers with a GTS engines even have that guarantee.  However, I don't know what a GTS engine is.  I assumed it was the engine that come on the single stage machines. 

Boy, that's terrible!

It would really suck to have done all that reading, shopping, comparing, forum going, only to miss that part and loose a year and ten and half months of warranty on a new machine. I know I would be mad at myself. If there is anything we can do, let us know. I would say, to blow it off and not say anything but I know you hold the dealers to the stricktest integrity standards and wouldn't think of being any different yourself.

SnowRemover wrote:

Hi Snow,

Well, one could say that, but you don't have a store front and the manufacturer would have to prove that.  I'd have to say once you accept money, the rules certainly change, but I also look at it as splitting hairs.  You may be accepting money from a couple of neighbors, but it seems to me that a good portion of members on this forum do their neighbors driveways and walkways out of curtesy or simply just because they like snowblowing, I'd bet it is a little of both. 

I myself have never asked my neighbors in the past for money or even to chip in for fuel, and God knows they never offered money either, and you know what fuel costs today. But those neighbors live immediately next to me.  If a neighbor on another block approached me and asked if I could do their driveway, you bet I'd charge them.  I didn't pay all this money for a high end snowblower to take on the neighborhood all at my expense either.

 The abuse on the machine is still the same not to mention additional fuel costs and wear and tear on components.  I think a good many folks here have purchased a snowblower, and it doesn't matter the brand or size, for the most part, actually enjoy using them and look forward to big storms, myself included.  Besides, any repair shop that looks at your machine and compares it to one that really is being used commercially, if they are worth their salt, it would be very obvious which one has been abused.  I wouldn't worry about it.

Richie,

I clear my neighbors driveway at no charge.  In return, they brought me out some hot cocoa and by accepting it, I accepted payment.  Thus making me a business and voiding my warranty.

It was tongue in cheek. 

--SnowRemover

It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Snow,

That is what happens to me when I don't have my morning coffee, it affects my thinking process. 

I might be wrong here, but I believe Ariens 3 Year warranty on their Snowthrowers is the best in the business.

Richie and Snow,

The residential clause reads as follows: "Residential purposes means use of the product on the same lot as your home.  Use at more than one location is considered commercial use, and the commercial use warranty would apply." 

Given this, and that one clears their neighbors lot, voids the 2 year warranty and puts into effect the 45 day warranty.  Although one may or may not get paid or receive other types of compensation does not have any effect on the type of warranty for the equipment.

It is true that the Toro dealer who provides service may never know that one blew their entire neighborhood, but what comes into play here is that Toro trusts that their customers hold the same respect and integrity for use and maintenance of their equipment that their customers expect from them in honoring a warranty.

 I used Snow as an example, and not a reprimand, of any sort when discussing the warranty, only because he discussed his usage and it voided the residential warranty.  Snow also puts a lot of trust in documentation and facts.   Essentially the written word is what he appears to rely upon.  Then why not rely upon all of the written word; be it a review of a product, an instruction sheet, or a warranty.  Snow also said that he made the dealer not put gas in the blower until it was delivered, and he inspected it.  Does this mean it's o.k. to screw over the Toro dealer at first opportunity? 

 As you mentioned God in your reply I also find it odd that you also say nobody will find out in the same post.  Until God drives a spike into Chester County, the world does not spin around me.   We are all on the same ball, with nobody any better or worse than the other.  I go through my days as honestly as I know how and try to help those around me the best I can.  I also believe that God knows who and what I am, and what I try to be.  He gave his only son to us so that we could live honestly and just.  Let me rephrase that:  God let us murder his only child so that hopefully we would learn a lesson and start living the life he intended when he started spinning the earth.  I could never do that with one of my children, but he knows that, and that's why he did it for us.  So it is each persons decision how they want to live, or how honest they want to be.  The real test is not when one takes their blower in for service, or what they tell the dealer.  It's what is written by our name in heaven, and we should all hope that it says "well done though good and faithful servant"...because that day will start our eternities.    

Walt

Ariens seems to give a bit more leaway than Toro in terms of commercial use as per their web page, quoted below:

"he three year duration of this warranty applies only if the product is put to ordinary, reasonable, and usual personal, family, or household uses. If the product is put to any business, commercial, or industrial use, then the duration of this warranty is ninety (90) days after the date of purchase, or one (1) year after the date of purchase if the product is labeled as a Professional/Commercial Product. If any product is rented or leased, then the duration of this warranty is ninety (90) days after the date of purchase. "

Marshall wrote:

Marshall-Please check I think your tongue is stuck in your cheek!

Marc

GTS on a Toro refers to "guaranteed to start". They have been using that on  their lawn mowers for quite a while.

Walt wrote: Walt,

You couldn't be more right.  I'm not a man of God, but I am as honest as they come.  So tell me, would this sound acceptable.

1.  I continue to help out my neigbors and snow blow their driveways for free.
2. If the Toro has a problem, I call up the dealer who sold it to me and tell them, I do blow the neighbors driveways when I blow mine.
3. If they decide they will still fix the unit under warranty, have I been dishonest.

I know you're not my Priest/Spiritual Leader, but you're probably the closest thing I've got, so I value your opinion.

--SnowRemover

Snowremover,

As you gain more experiences that can't be explained by science, it is far easier to understand that there are things happening here that are being controlled by something else.  (for example: science has looked into the genetic makeup of living things, and has gone as far as quantum physics and the string theories as being the foundation for the physical aspects of life.  Although scientists have thoeries how those strings attach, not one can see anything that can "turn on" the switch for life.)  This however does not answer your question...

God said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  Christians believe in that a lot, but I don't think that sounds like a bad rule for anyone in general. 

I would also recommend reading "The Best Question Ever" by Andy Stanley which might give you some guidance not only for your warranty question but also life in general.  It's a pretty good book. (It does include some God in it, but I am not going push you into My God or anything like that.  It is just a good book, and a good way to approach life and others and situations.  It's pretty easy reading too! (big  for the author!))  

Back to your question...Only you will know how to answer your question if that need arises.

Best regards,

Walt 

Walt wrote:
Walt,

You did this to me on the last thread, when you asked about my buy American beliefs - we strayed off topic and ChrisS started deleting my posts.  However, human conversations seldom stay on topic.  How many times has anyone reading this been talking to friends and asked "How did we get on this topic".

Well, we're on to God now, so let me say a few things about myself.
1. I do believe in God.
2. I do not believe in organized religion.  Not because I have a problem with it, I just don't think anyone's gotten it right yet.
3. I live my life by asking myself - "If everyone did what I did, would the world be better or worse?"

That last one is not about buying cars - or else I would have to ask would the world be better or worse if everyone owned the same car.  But if I was thinking about dropping a bubble gum wrapper on the sidewalk - then I imagine the sidewalk filled with trash and make sure I put my trash in the garbage.

As for my warranty, I think I will simply tell the Toro dealer that I've voided my warranty by doing my neigbors driveway.  If he feels that the warranty information is there to keep people from "sharing" the product  and helping out a neighbor isn't really what Toro means, and will fix it under warranty, then I'll let Toro fix it for free.  Otherwise, I'll pay.

I'm going to check out if my library has "the best question ever".  Thanks.

--SnowRemover

Snowremover,

You answered your own question in a fashion that you believe would be forthright and fair.  You do not have control over the dealer that sold it to you, and are letting him make a decision for himself; the way his gut tells him is appropriate.  He is however, the one that gave you His word in the first place.

I appreciate that you at listen to me, that makes people feel good in general.  In reality, I need to correct you on a topic I have seen a lot on this board.  It was many others that advised you about the attributes of Toro, I merely enlightened you as to where Craftsman stood in the C.R. rankings; therefore all of the others on this board that either made you decide, or not decide on Ariens, Toro, Craftsman, MTD, etc and really deserve far greater thanks than me.  I also have seen many "arguments" between people on the board that gave you a lot of advice (and it does take 2 to argue).  As you have seen, they have asked for nothing in return...but  a thank you does go a long way.

Your post concerning the engines has you very worked up inside, and questioning your own decision for the Best snowblower.  You probably feel as though you may have bought the wrong thing; but everyone said follow your gut and you did.  Others have told you how they like/dislike what they bought and you made your decision.  If you try now to find out more, as though you haven't bought it yet, you will never "Be thankful for the things you Have already been blessed with".  You bought your machine, you like it, so relax and enjoy it.  (God's spike isn't in Albany N.Y. either) you needn't battle people over your decision.  This is why Ice cream comes in Chocolate and Vanilla. People like both and neither one is wrong.

Next, you need to understand that people are generally good.  They are not out to screw over mankind.  I have been screwed more than Roger Rabbit in a brothel, but if I put my wall up against the world nobody will ever come in.  This is great until you don't have any friends left.  The people here are not out to get you, so please don't act like they are.  Remember,  these are also the people you will be coming to when you need to fix your equipment.  They are good people.  I too have a wall, as we all do; but my filter is also pretty good so I do let some people in.  Check your filter often and you will do fine in the end.  Keep the wall up and you will be lonely in the end.

Facts are often nothing more than written opinions from someone you haven't met.  I used to joke with my coworker when he/I was introduced as an "expert" that "an ex was a has been" and "a spurt is a drip under pressure" and neither of us wanted to be refered to in that manner.  There are no experts in this world, just people with a lot of experience.   The moral of this, is that facts and figures are nice, but as with anything, they can be modified to ones liking.  If the foundation of an argument is someone elses facts then you are fighting some elses battles.  Let them fight their own battles, let them be their own experts.  You will make your life a lot easier.   You admired a magazine for their ability to trash someones product.  What they were doing was giving an opinion, their own!  That doesn't mean they were right, it just meant that they liked chocolate ice cream, not vanilla.

Moderators usually allow topics to roll unless they are useless to the masses.  Battles over statistics don't really do people much good,  standard statistics are usually o.k.,  they have a big job to maintain the decorum of the site.  Investors don't want a site with their name on it being nothing more than a brawl.  this may get moved or deleted, but that is their decision.  Us as visitors need to deal with it or go elsewhere.  Their site, their rules.

And lastly, to stay on topic, Toro gave 3 year warranties if you bought your machine before November 30 (at least on some, maybe all models)

Again, thank you, and I hope you enjoy the book.

Walt

Well put Walt......very true.


Emmo        


PS  the Toro warranty extension was offered Sept 23 - Nov 3 2004 for all consumer gas models.

Walt, what a nice post. Thanks for being here!

Walt wrote:

Your post concerning the engines has you very worked up inside, and questioning your own decision for the Best snowblower. 

Walt,

First - thanks for the advice. Second, you are too modest (an admirable trait).  Third, I'm not questioning my decision to buy the Toro in the slightest - I just saw that website and thought I'd get some opinions.  I don't plan on ever starting the engine without checking the oil, plus I take that persons opinion with a heavy grain of salt since there was no factual evidence cited.  That doesn't mean it's not true, simply not verified by others using scientific or anectodal methods.

Walt wrote:

You admired a magazine for their ability to trash someones product.  What they were doing was giving an opinion, their own!  That doesn't mean they were right, it just meant that they liked chocolate ice cream, not vanilla.

I will try not to get too far off topic, but humans are humans.  The magazine is I admire is Maximum PC and they sometimes they give their opinion on layout design, but often they give facts that are as clear as day.  For example, last month they tested computer power supply's under manufacturer's load specs - and two burned out within the manufacturers specifications - two others didn't keep the URL approved voltage to the PC.  Those aren't opinions, those are important considerations that people need to have.  If those same products were tested by PC Magazine, they would say something like "Under normal conditions we feel this power supply is fine, but the manufacturer put such I high tolerance level on their product it couldn't meet it.  We still think this product deserves your consideration."  Whereas Maximum PC simply says "Avoid this product".  That's what I like about Maximum PC.  And that Power supply they ripped, had a the back cover ad.  Impressive magazine.  But I digress.

I do get your point that most people are good - that might be why I was so mad yesterday.  A large number of my "olive branch" posts were deleted, as if someone wanted to cover up the fact that I had some nice things to say about people. 

--SnowRemover

It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Just to let everyone know, I can't get the italics off of posts where the italics are pre-set by "QUOTING" someone.  I'm using Firefox 1.0.  So please don't complain about the italics.  I've cleared my cache, shut down the browser, re-entered the cite, tried to edit the post again, but the italics won't turn off.  Sorry for the difficulty it makes in reading.

--SnowRemover

SnowRemover wrote:
I'm on FF too. No Italics when quoting.................