Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

UPDATE FROM BEN07 FEB. 3RD

PLS NOTE: THIS PROBLEM WAS ANSWERED BY ARIENS.

POST # 19 explains the upgrade.  

 IT IS A RESOLVED  ISSUE 

I purchased an 8524LE for a price I had to jump at due to an end of season left over last year.   Shortly after, I started hearing horror stories on the gear drives for this particular unit.  I am sure a lot of you are familiar to it.  Ariens advertised  three categories of two stage SB.  Compact, Deluxe, Professional.  What they don't tell you is that this model has the drive unit of the compacts. The one prefixed with "932" rather than "924."   The other two Deluxe models and the Pro models all have the "924."  I feel this is misleading advertising on their part.  I contacted Ariens with my serial number, and all they said was my unit has the reduction unit in it.  I noticed someone in here telling a new owner of this years 8526 model on getting the R3 upgrade.  So maybe that is what I have or maybe not. 

What is this reduction thing.  I can't expect that they altered my gear drive to the same configuration as the heavy-duty one.  Mainly,  because the case appears to be much weaker and a little smaller.

So this year I got to use the machine.  It is quite capable of blowing some serious snow.  The problem is I have to use real high gear selections to do it.  This things ground speed is that of a turtle.  Everything is adjusted correctly, no slippage, proper RPM,  Trust me.  If you want I can get you electronic rpm measurement the next time I get it out of the shed.  I was giving my 15 yr old some lesions/practice etc. and cautioned him on making sure that he was in say forward gear when he starts out with his back against the wall, as the machine is quite capable of pinning him.  He engaged it in reverse and I challenged him to stop the machine from pushing him back on dry pavement.  He got the message that it would pin his belly-button to his spine then plow him right through a old heavy plywood faced garage door. 

He and I just did a neighbors 250 foot double wide with three snowfalls on it.  A 3 week old 4 inch, a two week old 3 inch and a fresh 8 inch.  Naturally the older snow was tough and packed so we were doing probably a good 10 inches plus of some tough underlying snow and some top powder.  Didn't matter, all of it went 30 plus feet in the air for a distance of no less than 40 feet.  The problem is we were doing it in 4th gear.  I don't think that is normal for an 8.5 hp.  When we transported it up there we had to use 6th gear with full throttle or it would have taken forever. First gear and 1st reverse are so slow they are useless.  So naturally I am thinking that what the modification may have been was at least in part to gear it down to take the stress off the inferior drive componets and weaker smaller transmission housing.  Which makes no sense as this machine is big and heavy, and has a large snow box that needs fed to operate properly, so the operator has to compensate by speeding up.  It weighs 240 lbs, that coupled with you say doing an EOD of wet thick heavy slush, filling the whole snow box and spilling a lot of it out on top of the box, can add 100 to 150 pounds to it's weight.  I feel like I am running a 1959 Caddy with a 1962 Rambler slushbox tranny that is gonna blow at any time.

When I contacted Ariens on this they were tight lipped, kinda like you got the reduction unit, buy see you later. 

So I was hoping to get some more information in here before I write a review on this machine. 

I know their will be mentions of advising to call Ariens again etc.  But trust me, they really don't seem to want to talk about it.  What can help prove that out, is they read and post in this forum.  They will read this, and they are quite capable of giving an explanation in here. However that remains to be seen. 

 

Regards. And any info you know of will be appreciated

Snowmann wrote:

It sure enough does.  I was able to stay in here long enough to skim read it.  Hope to get back in here tomorrow to do you two some justice.  and may have a minor question or something like that. 

Sincere thanks to you guys for now.   

Ben07

Yeah marshall valium would work.  .  A snowstorm would be better,  however  will just have to go do a shot an a beer.  Hope you have one also.  The snowstorm that is.  

Ben 

Hey Paul K. and Rob M. That was an answer at a level I hoped for, didn't think I would get,  would have settled for less etc.  I didn't want to mention co efficiencies/drag/torque distribution, which I only had to a little.  The reason I even hoped for that level of an answer is I have been around machinery, mechanics yada yada. for years.  The Ariens machines I have seen are incredibly well built machines.   That's no accident as it takes  lots of other things to achieve that.  Overall company directive, pride, good ol fashioned engineering,  R&D etc etc. You do all that well and the customer will come to you.  That's a 10 out of 10.  Go one step further and "thoroughly" fix a problem , with the end user in mind, then that's a 12 on a scale of one to ten.

I know you guys cannot get on the phone with every T.D.&H.  to explain.  Because a lot of times when someone gets hold of you they won't let go. 

One of the big problems is actually a complete credit to the machines  performance.  I am always conscious of Drag on a motor .  To do that you gotta know the power of the motor also.  So with the load I put it under, and being able to do it in 4th gear, I said no way, Ain't no way an 8.5 gonna do this, with two belt tension systems and the friction disc runnin in a straight line, fighting the power loss of a rotating  mating surface that is squeezing through the compressed  contact area on an arc.  Had to gear it down yada yada.  (you would need a chain system to even get close to it's performance)  Now the smart person would gear it down as a band-aid.  But the better guy would do that and also pick it up on the other end with additional stuff also etc. 

That's what your sayin you did.  My hat's off to ya, 

Real quick.  Someone reading this thread may not get the whole thing here, as to all the mechanical applications happening at the same time.  So let me say this.  That friction wheel n plate drive system in one of those machines (lets call it  a baby buggy wheel and a flat sided pulley) in comparison to lets say something familiar that does the same application.  An automobile.  Those two pieces do the job of (thus eliminating the need for ), the clutch fork, throw out bearing, clutch, pressure plate, front two thirds of a manual transmission, and the ring and pinion(rear end assy).  On a smaller scale of course, however a large snowblower, is not a little light toy either.  So those two basic parts still have to overcome most of the same invisible and nagging mechanical principals of the whole shopping cart of the stuff I said they eliminated.      

 

Regards Ben

 

Pls   keep this in mind,  I think my speeds are ok,  Remember it was part the performance of the machine that swayed me that way and the other part was probably my imagination.

Even if they are a little slow it don't matter as I prefer, and I mean prefer to work that friction plate as far away from center,( on a more shallow arc), as possible.   I was extremely concerned their was a high probability that I would be stressing other applications till your explanation gave me the scope of your retrofit.  (same as both sides of the system were balanced, not just one side)

 

With that said I am gonna play around and   compare some different runnin speeds of  different units with anyone who wants to goof around and have some fun in the forum.  Reason, fun, interest, hobby, and you always stand to learn something.  Never know may be the start of dragracing snowblowers.  And folks no computerized NASCAR crate engines, gotta stick to public production engines, like when racing was real. 

And Marshall . No and I mean No you are not allowed to enter that Snapper, It looks way too Fast.  You can be official pace car only. 

Marshall wrote:
Well, since you asked. I'll take two please, blue is my favorite color, you know.

Here's my speeds.  for anyone interested.  (probably not many, Is my first guess)

Sorry that the excell spread sheet doesn't past in perfect alignment.  I think it is good enough to use, as a reference example 6th gear is  1.9706 miles per hour.

-full throttle 3450 (did not notice any governor assist.  if it did the engine still ran at the exact same rpm) ((so sort of further proof the governor did not come into play))						Feb 1 2005
-running start
-number of seconds it took to travel 30 feet						Model 8524LE (2003-2004)
-auger not engaged						8.5 hp
-unit riding only on drive wheels
-both drive wheels engaged
		sec to go 30 ft	feet per sec	feet per min	feet per hr	MPH
	1st fwd	36.25	0.8276	49.6552	2979.3103	0.5643
	2nd	23.37	1.2837	77.0218	4621.3094	0.8752
	3rd	17.47	1.7172	103.0338	6182.0263	1.1708
	4th	14.41	2.0819	124.9133	7494.7953	1.4195
	5th	11.37	2.6385	158.3113	9498.6807	1.7990
	6th	10.38	2.8902	173.4104	10404.6243	1.9706
	1st rev	27.3	1.0989	65.9341	3956.0440	0.7493
	2nd	21.42	1.4006	84.0336	5042.0168	0.9549

You forgot to post the most important figures. What is the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times ??

Knee, roflmao.

Leave all as it is, it's fine. Thanks for the update!

Actually I did do the 1/4 mile..  Got caught by the troopers.  The only reason they caught me is it was at night and they noticed I didn't have any tail lights so they radio-ed ahead for a road block.  The one trooper was gonna let me off as I told him I would put tail lights on by the next day.  But his partner said that i still wouldn't pass "State inspection" as my front end wasn.t a min. of 5 inches off the ground.    Got the 1/4 mile time as 7.6  minutes flat.  Keep in mind that was in street tires and the header capped. (not bad considering I haven't been able to get dyno time yet to ensure my personal super tune is 100%. 

 I am gonna have to wait a few weeks till they cool down before I try the zero to 60mph  test. 

Ben07

Ben07 wrote:

Whew...this is a serious dude!

Ben07,

I think more than you think will be interested. If they think there may be a problem with their machine they have an excellent benchmark to refer to.

It looks like a wonderful reference to me. One that you can't find just anywhere. And there are about a billion of those machines out there now.

After the carb thread and now split times. I can't imagine the next modification.