Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Well, I've been deciding on a new single stage snowblower for the last 12 months, seems like forever.  I don't over-analyze, but even David would give up in frustration.  :)  Impulse buying is not in my blood, and buyer's remorse is just not acceptable.

Finally decided to pull the trigger on the Toro 421QE.  Yes, it's a 4-stroke and electric start.  Before you manly guys jump in and say I don't need electric start and save myself $100, I'll say it for you.  I don't need electric start, my wife does.  :)  .    The extra $100 is insurance for marital bliss.  Cry once and I don't have to hear the b*tching about should have, would have, da da da.  The 4-stroke was my personal decision.

So just after a week of this brand new shiny red toy sitting pretty in my garage, the time was right to play and get dirty.  Got 3.6" of snow accumulation overnight with a bit of icy crust on top.  I was hoping for a foot of snow but any accumulation more than a shovel full is welcomed.  Little red Toro 421Q went out on a maiden voyage at 06:30 AM taking on heavy density snow with enthusiasm and good speed.  I'm thoroughly satisfied with the performance and handling.  This Toro 421Q has got to be the most balanced single stage in all performance category.  The 4-stroke 163cc Loncin engine with compression release was easy to start,  quiet, smooth, and has good amount of torque.

In comparison, my 12 year-old Honda HS621 has the tenacity of a pit bull when it comes to the heavy snow.  The extremely rigid and high rotational mass auger was designed for extreme packed snow and slush.   It's a heavyweight fighter that likes to land close and determined punches.  However, the Toro 421Q is agile, fast, and extremely maneuverable.  The Quick Shoot is awesome, changing the chute direction while turning is easy and fun.  The snow discharge distance is impressive.  But in actual use, for practical reasons, I only discharge it 10 to 15 feet away.  No point trying to get maximum distance while 50% of that snow comes back at you in windy conditions.

Toro has got the drivetrain / rubber auger efficiency and user friendliness down to a science with this 21" single stage.  Designed to perfection while all the other brands are playing "me too" and catch up with Toro's auger efficiency, while attracting buyers with lower pricing, bigger engines, and loaded features. 

For comparison, the next closest competitor would be the new for this year Simplicity / Snapper SS922EX at $600.  The McCullough MC621ES is even lower price at $500, a 208cc engine, and has the longest pissing distance so far.  The problem is, it doesn't have Quick Shoot or anything remotely close.  And lastly, where can someone buy one of these?  What's the future of this brand / company?

So unless you are constantly digging out of piles left by the snowplow, or your house is the last house on a large cul-de-sac and need a 2 stage machine for 90% of the work, don't forget to give this little red wonder a try.  

As an owner of a Honda HS1132TAS and HS621, the new Toro 421QE is a definite keeper.

Funny you posted about the 421 QE -   I was going to do the same thing.

I really looked at the Compact 2-stage Ariens  -  but re-evaluated what I really need ( for the majority of the time) - a

single-stage. 

Then the big decision - the 221QE  proven 2-stroke  or the less-proven 4-stroke 421QE.  I owned the old 200S  2-stroke Toro

for many years and called it - 'the little motor that could ". Did some real ' back and forth ' deciding and chose the 4-stroke ( maybe just

a change)  and never looked back. 

What a GREAT single-stage machine.  I agree with you 100%    Quick-shoot control chute is awesome - along with the power propel drive

(it feels like its almost self-propelled)  along with the zip-deflector easy distance adjuster.

Yesterday and the last time I used it - the motor started on the First pull  -  what a great all around balanced snowblower - good job - Toro!

Great review on the toro421q.  Here's a video from youtube of the machine in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nnROtH58qU&playnext=1&list=PL0164BD4B359A07C5&index=1

That's a good video.  I saw it one day after I bought mine.

Here's a another video showing how capable a 421Q can be.  What a dig out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF9jxy1EIAU

aa35 -  are there any video comparisons between the 221Q and 421Q Toros?  I'm surprised they're not out on youtube or elsewhere.

I'm more than pleased with the power of the 421 4-stroke as it sounds you are too.

Yes, I'm thoroughly satisfied with the 421Q.  My only thought is I should add Dynamat to quiet down a bit more.  :)

Actually, videos of the 421Q have only begun to surface the last two months.  I haven't seen any 221Q / 421Q direct comparison, with the latest Loncin engine.  It's probably a close race in terms of performance.  I only say this because my neighbor has a 221Q, and it is lightning quick.  You can also see this in a video comparison between the McCullough (middle) and the Toro 421Q (left).  The Toro did not throw as far and high, but it was actually in front at the finish line.  :)  I can't tell if that 421Q has the Tecumseh or the Loncin engine.  The Honda HS520 (right) started out ahead of the pack with pretty good discharge distance, but it was shamefully stalled.  :(   Although that operator could be a little more enthusiastic getting that engine restarted. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yeDXDrlY4o

Note that McCulloch has a 208cc engine which is larger than either the Tecumseh 190cc, Loncin 163cc, or Honda GC160. 

Is the 87 cc engine on the little toro powerclear 180 a mini version of that 163 cc loncin engine on the 421?  From the videos I've seen on the powerclear 180, it looks underpowered.

WOW, im very surprised in the 421, im not familiar with single stage units as everyone I know has two stage units............Suppose to pick up my Toro 826OXE (that I have no room to store) on thursday and now feel like I made the wrong decision.......:(

Sweet!!  No apologies for electric start needed.  I get it on everything if available.  It's always nice to have as a backup if engine gets flooded for some reason.

stresst wrote:

Don't worry the Toro 421 is a decent machine but the nasty EOD is still the realm of 2 stages. Once you actually use the 826 you'll be sold. It's tough buying something and having to wait to use it. But you'll blow through snow with the 826 that would stop the 421. Unless you get very little snow the 826 is a better machine. aa335 also has a 2 stage snowblower as well. So if it gets nasty the 421 will sit in the garage.

joed wrote:
I have no idea what engine that is in the Powerclear 180.  Although it seems quiet and smooth, the performance is very lackluster.  Definitely could use more power, a lot more.   The kind of snow that I encountered this morning would leave the Powerclear 180 spitting out snow only 3-5 feet from the chute, at a very slow walking speed, not the brisk walk speed of the 421Q.

The 180 chassis and the auger seems fine, as well as the overall design of the snowblower.  I actually like the overall package and style of it.  However, the engine is definitely not well matched to the snowblower.  One more thing, there's no reason the Powerclear 180 should not get the Quick Shoot feature, other than additional cost that will potentially cause lost sales.  At least it should get the chute directional of the electric Power Curve 1800.

Since the release of the Powerclear 180, there's been fuel leak issues which there is a safety recall.  I hope Toro is working on a solution for a different engine.  It's a very promising model with a very rocky beginning.

snowmachine wrote:
Actually, if the engine is flooded, you'd want to remove the spark plug and pull start manually to clear the accumulated fuel from the combustion chamber.  Using the electric starting would only compound the problem.

The electric start would come in handy if you do happen to break the recoil start cord though.   Maybe this is what you meant.

aa335 wrote:

Up in Canada, HD is selling the "CA$899" Toro Power Clear 221 QE for CA$675, and then tonight is the last night for a further 10% off with HD card application 1st use = CA$607.50. I am going to walk across and take a look before they close, would be a 2nd machine, have a $100 HD gift card from the 28 purchase. Any thoughts - good price? The videos linked to are real impressive.

True... I've been there with a Yamaha Phazer snowmobile with a sticky float. Talk about cylinders full of fuel. Total hydrolock with gas. aa335 wrote:

NotMoneyGuy wrote:
Is the sale ending tonight?  Is it applicable throughout all HDs in the GTA?  That's a really good price.

NotMoneyGuy wrote:
Surprising to see those promotions this early in the snow season. I would get it with that kind of deal.  Do it!  There's no doubt it is an impressive snowblower.

aa335 wrote:

Oh, yeah!  CA$607.50 + 13% tax = CA$686.48 - $100 HD gift card = CA$586.48 on new HD card. Thanks aa335. (and sorry to 2-stroke your thread temporarily).

I had a bad feeling about the walk, so I took the car. Actually the wife had the bad feeling, I had the good feeling. (I knew I would buy it.) That'll teach her to let me out of the house when I tell her a deal is almost over and I just want to take a look....

 

joed wrote:

No, only the 10% HD card application first use further discount ended at closing Dec 22/10. These come and go. My receipt shows 6 minutes to spare, took them forever to knock off the $100 gift card together with the 10% promo, had to get the manager over to call the head cashier over to pull it off.

The CA$675 price started today, I'm guessing. My store had around 9, I read some had 60. Call around, SKU 490090.

NotMoneyGuy wrote:

No, only the 10% HD card application first use further discount ended at closing Dec 22/10. These come and go. My receipt shows 6 minutes to spare, took them forever to knock off the $100 gift card together with the 10% promo, had to get the manager over to call the head cashier over to pull it off.

The CA$675 price started today, I'm guessing. My store had around 9, I read some had 60. Call around, SKU 490090.

Wow, that's an insane price.  Congratulations on getting a great snowblower for such a good price.  I was at HD today and they seem to have a lot of these left over.  I just bought a toro 826 two stage a few weeks ago.  Now, I'm looking at the 221q and I'm so tempted to buy it but that would be overkill.  In addition, there's the issue of space too.  So, I started looking at the little powerclear 180.  I can fold that one and tuck it away nicely and maybe use it on small snowfalls.  They also had it on special at $374 but I'm not sure if it's a good unit or not?  It looks well-built but I'm not sure if that engine is any good.

joed wrote:
If you are looking for something small, look in craigslist for the discontinued Powerlite with the 2 stroke engine.  Its not as refined as the Powerclear 180, a bit more rowdy, but it is more powerful.  It only weighs 40 lbs and fits in the trunk of most cars.  :)

Or just to straight to the 221QR and keep smiling every time you use it. 

Just changed the oil on my new 421QE yesterday.  The manual says to change the initial oil after 2 hours of run time.  I used it 3 times - so

figured it was close.  Fairly easy to do - noticed the full line was practically right to the top of the fill cap - it takes 20 ounces.

I used synthetic Mobil 1   5w-30w oil.  Just wondering - do most people use a synthetic oil in their snowblowers?

I got about 2 hours on my 421QE today.  I originally filled it with Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic oil.  I'll probably change it at 5 hours.

All other snowblowers  are also filled with the same synthetic oil.   It maybe a bit overkill but it synthetic oil flows nicely in cold weather so I like to use it.

aa335 wrote:
If you are looking for something small, look in craigslist for the discontinued Powerlite with the 2 stroke engine.  Its not as refined as the Powerclear 180, a bit more rowdy, but it is more powerful.  It only weighs 40 lbs and fits in the trunk of most cars.  :)

Or just to straight to the 221QR and keep smiling every time you use it. 

I'm still so tempted to go get that 221q but the family would kill me.   I think I might get way with the powerclear 180 but I'm guessing from most reviews that is not that great.   Can that 221q be folded and tucked away like the powerclear can?

joed wrote:

Ah, they probably don't mean it. Plus, it is ususally easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Try what I did, put the new Toro 221Q box in the garage beside the two-stage. Soon the whining will go from "why did you buy a second one?" to "when are you going to assemble the new one?"  Keep showing them impressive youtube vids of the 221Q/421Q in action to speed this transition...

Joed, I can guarantee you will be disappointed in the PC 180. The 221q is that good. The handles do fold without tools. Don't wait too long, the 221q will be sold out and all is left is the 210.

Thanks for all the advice/encouragement.  I know that 221qr is a great deal but already having the toro 826 two stage seems to make it redundant for me to get the 221.  No matter how I sell it, the family won't go for it.  I even tried showing them a few youtube videos of both the 221 and the powerclear 180.   They all loved the 180 and said the 221 is too big, not worth it since I have the big one already, etc.  The 180, is however, still somewhat pricey: $374.  It was normally $499 at HD and $419 at local dealers.   If I can get HD to bring it down to $325 or so, it might be worth a shot but the more I watch video of the 180, it appears to me to be a useless machine. 

joed wrote:
The 180 is "cute" maybe that's why they all love it.  I wouldn't go decision by committee unless everyone is equally involved in using the snowblower.  Who's going use it most of the time?  As much as I "love" the look of the PC180, it does really need more power.

You already have a nice Toro 826 which is small enough to be maneuverable as a 2 stage.  It's one of the most user friendly snowblower.  I'd give it a fair shake down this winter before making decision to see if you really need a single, or if a PC180 is the perfect fit for you.  Maybe after this winter, you just need something that is light and small but don't need a lot of power just for the light fluffy snow.  Or you may decide that your usage is a 80% single, 20% 2- stage usage.  Then a 221Q would make more sense than a PC180.